Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

[Shogun]

I bet christians of yesteryear found themselves having to roll over and ASSIMILATE the findings of Galileo too.

Copernicus was a priest, galileo was a Christian as well who used copernicus's discoveries of the earth revolving around the sun....and furthered the theory....

do you blame God for the actions of the mere men in catholic church power, that punished Galileo for telling the truth...which also did not conflict with the bible's genesis story?

care

their respective faiths did not keep their scientific discoveries from being treated then like dogma junkies treat Darwin now. Hell, Darwin was a christian too. How does that invalidate the correlated reaction to scientific discoveries from both?


It's funny when x-tians throw their dogma ancestors under the bus... you know, AS IF THEY CANNOT BE THROWN UNDER THEMSELVES IN ABOUT 200 YEARS.

 

[rdean]

Do those that believe in the supernatural ever ask themselves why scientist don't waste their time defending evolution, geology, paleontology, astronomy and other supported sciences from attacks by the magical creationists?

 

[Care4all]

That's right...the Sun wasn't created until the fourth day in Genisis 1:16.

Obviously if there was no Sun, there were no 24 hour days.

no, the sun was not created on the 4th day, nor was the moon and the stars....the bible says they were AFFIXED on the 4th day so that we could use the sun, moon and stars to guide us through seasons...later that we used...to guide us in travel, and planting and harvesting.

When our galaxy was first being formed our planets were not position in the heavens as they are now....we went through a huge bombardment period, with gravitational pulls that swung other planets left and right, closer and farther from the sun....

it was not until after we got our moon through a huge impact of another protoplanet...100 million years after the earth was created...that we became positioned and affixed in our NEW 22 degree tilt, and our 3rd rock from the sun position, with our gravitational pull/position, did we become a planet that could support the makings and evolution of intelligent life.... and eventually have our 24 hour days...initially, science estimates our days were only 8 hours....

the bible says on the First day, there was LIGHT and the light was good, there was day and there was night...the SUN had already been formed, just as earth had been formed....or there would have not been LIGHT on the day 1 of the progression.

there is nothing in genesis 1 that even contradicts evolution...

we were FORMED from the dust according to both....

there were plants first, then fish, birds, crawling things and animals, THEN MAN in both evolution and genesis1....

i don't even know what the argument is...other than not understanding what the term 'day' meant?

care

Sorry Care, I'm reading it verbatim...Gen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night and the stars also.

I use the NKJV.

Here is a link to the KJV Genesis 1:16 - Passage*Lookup - King James Version - BibleGateway.com

no.

you are taking 1 part out of the passage trying to make it, what it is not missourian!

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

AGAIN this passage is about the END of the Bombardment period, where the planets in the universe were no longer HAYWIRE, all of our planets and stars FINALLY became firmament in the heavens, they were AFFIXED in to the positions the planets are basically, in today....this was not the case in our galaxy's beginnings, it was downright crazy madness with no planet in their positions of today....

this passage says that in stage(day) 4 of our creation, God affixed the planets, the sun, and the moon and the stars to where they are today...IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED, there would be no life on earth, as we know it, with 24 hour days and our moderate climate of today, that can sustain life.

the sun already existed on day 1 or there would be no light in the galaxy...there would be no galaxy period, without the sun...thus LIGHT was there in stage(day) 1 of creation...

God created the FIRMAMENT of the sun and moon's and star's light on the 4th stage/day....

you are just not reading it right or understanding what is being pointed out in this passage imo.

watch The Universe on history channel...it has been covering our beginnings and how we have progressed and stage or day 4, is precisely what happened....the planets became affixed in the sky and we got our 24 hour days, with sun and moon and stars where they are positioned with today's tilt in this firmament of the heavens.

care

 

[gcomeau]

Of course it can!


Its just silly to assume that there's a driving consciousness behind it when there is no proof of that.

Silly to you, not so silly to others. It's like saying one is silly for having blue as their favorite color rather than red. There is no supporting data, nor is there refuting data about any driving consciousness. Thus, even giving a driving consciousness consideration ends up being a belief.

Would you stop doing that? I've explained the difference to you several times and you STILL insist on pretending you don't know the difference between subjective and objective claims.

No, it is not like saying your favorite color is blue. THAT is a purely subjective claim. You are simply stating a matter of personal preference. It doesn't REQUIRE any other supporting data except your personal decision to make the damn color your favorite. You aren't making claims about anything except the nature of your own personal opinions for cripes sake. You aren't claiming anything actually exists external to your own mind when you declare that your favorite color is blue. You're just saying that preference exists in your mind and nowhere else.

The only way that saying that would be like saying there's a driving consciousness behind evolution would be if you added the words "in my imagination" to the end of the latter claim. As in, the driving consciousness only exists IN YOUR HEAD. That it doesn't have real, independent existence separate from your mind and perceptions. THEN it would be like saying your favorite color is blue.

But that isn't what is being claimed, now is it? The idea is the driving consciousness exists totally independently of your personal perceptions of it. That it has an independent, separate existence. That it's actually out there, in the world, acting on things all on it's own. That isn't even remotely similar to the claim that your favorite color is blue.

 

[rdean]

no, the sun was not created on the 4th day, nor was the moon and the stars....the bible says they were AFFIXED on the 4th day so that we could use the sun, moon and stars to guide us through seasons...later that we used...to guide us in travel, and planting and harvesting.

When our galaxy was first being formed our planets were not position in the heavens as they are now....we went through a huge bombardment period, with gravitational pulls that swung other planets left and right, closer and farther from the sun....

it was not until after we got our moon through a huge impact of another protoplanet...100 million years after the earth was created...that we became positioned and affixed in our NEW 22 degree tilt, and our 3rd rock from the sun position, with our gravitational pull/position, did we become a planet that could support the makings and evolution of intelligent life.... and eventually have our 24 hour days...initially, science estimates our days were only 8 hours....

the bible says on the First day, there was LIGHT and the light was good, there was day and there was night...the SUN had already been formed, just as earth had been formed....or there would have not been LIGHT on the day 1 of the progression.

there is nothing in genesis 1 that even contradicts evolution...

we were FORMED from the dust according to both....

there were plants first, then fish, birds, crawling things and animals, THEN MAN in both evolution and genesis1....

i don't even know what the argument is...other than not understanding what the term 'day' meant?

care

Sorry Care, I'm reading it verbatim...Gen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night and the stars also.

I use the NKJV.

Here is a link to the KJV Genesis 1:16 - Passage*Lookup - King James Version - BibleGateway.com

no.

you are taking 1 part out of the passage trying to make it, what it is not missourian!

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

AGAIN this passage is about the END of the Bombardment period, where the planets in the universe were no longer HAYWIRE, all of our planets and stars FINALLY became firmament in the heavens, they were AFFIXED in to the positions the planets are basically, in today....this was not the case in our galaxies beginnings, it was downright crazy madness with no planet in their positions of today....

this passage says that in stage(day) 4 of our creation, God affixed the planets, the sun, and the moon and the stars to where they are today...IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED, there would be no life on earth, as we know it, with 24 hour days and our moderate climate of today, that can sustain life.

the sun already existed on day 1 or there would be no light in the galaxy...there would be no galaxy period, without the sun...thus LIGHT was there in stage(day) 1 of creation...

God created the FIRMAMENT of the sun and moon's and star's light on the 4th stage/day....

you are just not reading it right or understanding what is being pointed out in this passage imo.

watch The Universe on history channel...it has been covering our beginnings and how we have progressed and stage or day 4, is precisely what happened....the planets became affixed in the sky and we got our 24 hour days, with sun and moon and stars where they are positioned with today's tilt in this firmament of the heavens.

care

Prove that there are such things as ghosts and gods and spirits and angels and devils.

They don't exist. They are just made up.

 

[Missourian]

no, the sun was not created on the 4th day, nor was the moon and the stars....the bible says they were AFFIXED on the 4th day so that we could use the sun, moon and stars to guide us through seasons...later that we used...to guide us in travel, and planting and harvesting.

When our galaxy was first being formed our planets were not position in the heavens as they are now....we went through a huge bombardment period, with gravitational pulls that swung other planets left and right, closer and farther from the sun....

it was not until after we got our moon through a huge impact of another protoplanet...100 million years after the earth was created...that we became positioned and affixed in our NEW 22 degree tilt, and our 3rd rock from the sun position, with our gravitational pull/position, did we become a planet that could support the makings and evolution of intelligent life.... and eventually have our 24 hour days...initially, science estimates our days were only 8 hours....

the bible says on the First day, there was LIGHT and the light was good, there was day and there was night...the SUN had already been formed, just as earth had been formed....or there would have not been LIGHT on the day 1 of the progression.

there is nothing in genesis 1 that even contradicts evolution...

we were FORMED from the dust according to both....

there were plants first, then fish, birds, crawling things and animals, THEN MAN in both evolution and genesis1....

i don't even know what the argument is...other than not understanding what the term 'day' meant?

care

Sorry Care, I'm reading it verbatim...Gen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night and the stars also.

I use the NKJV.

Here is a link to the KJV Genesis 1:16 - Passage*Lookup - King James Version - BibleGateway.com

no.

you are taking 1 part out of the passage trying to make it, what it is not missourian!

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

AGAIN this passage is about the END of the Bombardment period, where the planets in the universe were no longer HAYWIRE, all of our planets and stars FINALLY became firmament in the heavens, they were AFFIXED in to the positions the planets are basically, in today....this was not the case in our galaxy's beginnings, it was downright crazy madness with no planet in their positions of today....

this passage says that in stage(day) 4 of our creation, God affixed the planets, the sun, and the moon and the stars to where they are today...IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED, there would be no life on earth, as we know it, with 24 hour days and our moderate climate of today, that can sustain life.

the sun already existed on day 1 or there would be no light in the galaxy...there would be no galaxy period, without the sun...thus LIGHT was there in stage(day) 1 of creation...

God created the FIRMAMENT of the sun and moon's and star's light on the 4th stage/day....

you are just not reading it right or understanding what is being pointed out in this passage imo.

watch The Universe on history channel...it has been covering our beginnings and how we have progressed and stage or day 4, is precisely what happened....the planets became affixed in the sky and we got our 24 hour days, with sun and moon and stars where they are positioned with today's tilt in this firmament of the heavens.

care

Everything you quoted here occurred on the fourth day...God made the sun on the fourth day, there is no arguing that. It is direct from the text.

So therefore day 1-3 could not have been days the way we think of them...as those kind of days did not yet exist.

 

[BigBarry]

So a day in the bible isn't a day?

That's right...the Sun wasn't created until the fourth day in Genisis 1:16.

Obviously if there was no Sun, there were no 24 hour days.

A 24hr day doesn't depend on the sun, it's the time the earth takes to do 1 rotation.

Dumbass.

 

[rdean]

So the original question was: Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

So I asked a question: Do those that believe in the supernatural ever ask themselves why scientist don't waste their time defending evolution, geology, paleontology, astronomy and other supported sciences from attacks by the magical creationists?

The very next post was: No - and then a bunch of Bible quotes.

It may not have been directed at my post, but I thought it was very funny.

The difference between scientists and American Christians. Scientists are "curious". American Christians accept and go to war.

 

[Missourian]

So a day in the bible isn't a day?

That's right...the Sun wasn't created until the fourth day in Genisis 1:16.

Obviously if there was no Sun, there were no 24 hour days.

A 24hr day doesn't depend on the sun, it's the time the earth takes to do 1 rotation.

Dumbass.

Uhh..once again you have no idea what you are talking about.

In Genesis, the Bible uses the terms evening and morning to denote a day. Can't have those without the Sun.

If you stick to something you have some minuscule knowledge of, you won't look like such a fool.

 

[Si modo]

So the original question was: Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

So I asked a question: Do those that believe in the supernatural ever ask themselves why scientist don't waste their time defending evolution, geology, paleontology, astronomy and other supported sciences from attacks by the magical creationists?

The very next post was: No - and then a bunch of Bible quotes.

It may not have been directed at my post, but I thought it was very funny.

The difference between scientists and American Christians. Scientists are "curious". American Christians accept and go to war.

It's cute when those who play at being scientists post about what they think scientists are and invariably shoot themselves in the foot with their own ignorance about science and logic. And, they don't even realize it; that's the cutest part.

 

[Care4all]

Sorry Care, I'm reading it verbatim...Gen 1:16 Then God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night and the stars also.

I use the NKJV.

Here is a link to the KJV Genesis 1:16 - Passage*Lookup - King James Version - BibleGateway.com

no.

you are taking 1 part out of the passage trying to make it, what it is not missourian!

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

AGAIN this passage is about the END of the Bombardment period, where the planets in the universe were no longer HAYWIRE, all of our planets and stars FINALLY became firmament in the heavens, they were AFFIXED in to the positions the planets are basically, in today....this was not the case in our galaxy's beginnings, it was downright crazy madness with no planet in their positions of today....

this passage says that in stage(day) 4 of our creation, God affixed the planets, the sun, and the moon and the stars to where they are today...IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED, there would be no life on earth, as we know it, with 24 hour days and our moderate climate of today, that can sustain life.

the sun already existed on day 1 or there would be no light in the galaxy...there would be no galaxy period, without the sun...thus LIGHT was there in stage(day) 1 of creation...

God created the FIRMAMENT of the sun and moon's and star's light on the 4th stage/day....

you are just not reading it right or understanding what is being pointed out in this passage imo.

watch The Universe on history channel...it has been covering our beginnings and how we have progressed and stage or day 4, is precisely what happened....the planets became affixed in the sky and we got our 24 hour days, with sun and moon and stars where they are positioned with today's tilt in this firmament of the heavens.

care

Everything you quoted here occurred on the fourth day...God made the sun on the fourth day, there is no arguing that. It is direct from the text.

So therefore day 1-3 could not have been days the way we think of them...as those kind of days did not yet exist.

NOPE, where did the light come from on the FIRST DAY if the sun were not the light in the galaxy that earth received?

God created the sun and the moon and the stars, as with all in the universe, but it was not until stage 4 or day 4, before the sun and our new moon and the stars we SET IN THE FIRMAMENT of the heavens, so that WE could utilize them for days and seasons and years....

Before this time period, there was NO WAY to do this...the planets and stars were HAYWIRE....our galaxy, finally settled down, and our moon had finally formed with the distance similar to today, with it's gravitational pull keeping us set in the position to the sun....without our moon firmed up as it is today, we would be in deep trouble...on the "life" aspect....nothing controlling our tides and they would be coming in like tidal waves, only for 100 miles inland...

Again, the Sun was already created or there would NOT have been LIGHT on the first day, so what He is talking about creating was the firmament of the of the sun and stars and planets that he created in the firmament of the heavens...we had day and we had night with 2 lights, that were AFFIXED and not haywire, so that we could PLAN the planting of crops and travel at a later date...this IS WHAT IT SAYS....and THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED according to evolution....and the Universe series I am watching....

I did not know what this meant a year ago, and thought the passage was bat ass crazy, it was NOT until I began studying the creation of the Universe and this program on the History channel that i FINALLY understood what it was talking about on day 4....they used FIRMED UP, or the firmament of the planets several times in this passage, but I did not understand it until recently....that it meant exactly what it said...the sun and the moon and the stars were finally firmed up in to the positions they are today.

If you do not believe in the creation story from the get go, I don't expect you to see this...but as someone who believes in both, I see no contradiction what so ever with this passage or the others, when compared to what evolution or science says what happened.

care

 

[BigBarry]

Miss Ourian,

Then the bible proves itself ignorant right in the first chapter.
Is that why you like it?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Isn't science just discovering god's blueprints? If not, why not?

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

 

[Shogun]

So the original question was: Why can't evolution be part of god's plan?

So I asked a question: Do those that believe in the supernatural ever ask themselves why scientist don't waste their time defending evolution, geology, paleontology, astronomy and other supported sciences from attacks by the magical creationists?

The very next post was: No - and then a bunch of Bible quotes.

It may not have been directed at my post, but I thought it was very funny.

The difference between scientists and American Christians. Scientists are "curious". American Christians accept and go to war.

It's cute when those who play at being scientists post about what they think scientists are and invariably shoot themselves in the foot with their own ignorance about science and logic. And, they don't even realize it; that's the cutest part.

profound and insightful input!





back atch, dogma junkie

 

[Shogun]

Isn't science just discovering god's blueprints? If not, why not?

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Isn't science just discovering god's blueprints? If not, why not?

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Why does it have to come from the bible? I'm not a catholic or christian.

 

[Care4all]

Giving the planet of Uranus as an example, ONE DAY is 44years of our time.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Giving the planet of Uranus as an example, ONE DAY is 44years of our time.

Uranus....oh the jokes.

 

[Care4all]

Isn't science just discovering god's blueprints? If not, why not?

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Just the use of the word FORMED...it was NOT instantaneous, he did not twinkle his nose and walah! everything is as it is today with all of us here...

genesis specifically gives STAGES in the formation of the galaxy and the life on earth....we were FORMED....in the creation story of genesis 1.

 

[Shogun]

Evolution is the cornerstone of creationism. God created all life with the intention that it would evolve over time.

can you show me what specific bible passage you take that notion from?

Why does it have to come from the bible? I'm not a catholic or christian.

uh... so we are just tossing opinions out now?



yes, given that the bible is supposed to be the inspired word of god I'd say that such assertions and assumptions should have a bit of a foundation in evidence deeper than something you came up with while on the shitter last night.