Why Can’t A Daca Bill Sail Through Congress?

[Coyote]

No citizenship. Ever. They are permanently banned from citizenship, by any means.

The bad behavior of their shithole parents CANNOT be rewarded.

Ah. So punish the kids for the actions of their parents. The rightwing mantra.

So punish the kids for the actions of their parents.

The kids, some as old as 36, aren't citizens.
They aren't here legally.
They should return to their country of origin.

A country they have no memory of. You are still punishing them for actions their parents took when they were children.

 

[Darkwind]

I'm not convinced we need to end the lottery. How about we quit talking about END to something and readjust proportions - increase merit based, decrease lottery.

Fuck lottery. Merit-based ONLY. Immigration should be used to improve America and for no other reason.

Who do you think comes in via the lottery? A one in a million chance at a better life: will the US green card lottery survive?

If it was strictly merit you'd be seeing a lot of Indians and Chinese coming in and then you'd be screaming about the end of the white race in America.

 

[saveliberty]

If it takes 20 years to bring in someone beyond immediate family (spouse and minor children) - that's not adding anything up very fast.

You moved the goal posts by adding beyond immediate family. Of course you knowingly were deceptive.

 

[bripat9643]

Ok, lets clear out all the noise and partisanship. The Daca bill has been easily described as four pillars.

End to chain migration
End to lottery
The wall
Pathway to citizenship for dreamers

So fund the 20 billion for wall and security and pass the thing. I would vote for this in a heartbeat. It is a reasonable compromise. I would wager a hundred dollars that if this deal was presented to Americans for a vote it would pass by a super majority. Bring this bill in this simple form to the floor and vote on it. This is not rocket science. I can’t believe that even some of our libs would not support this. Get er done!

The thing of it is, the far left wants open boarders and chain migration and has taken a hard line stand on it.
That is exactly why they can't get it passed.

The far right has taken a hard line stand on DACA and insist on ending family reunification and the lottery. What's with that? That might be another reason it can't get passed.

Why should you get a visa because your nephew got a green card through amnesty?

Not going to happen.

It doesn't exactly work that easily. Beyond immediate family (spouse and minor children) - it can take years to get a visa for other family members, so the impression you are giving that they bring in dozens and hundreds of remote relatives as soon as they get their green card is false.

I'm very familiar with the issue. Why should immigrants have a right to "reunification" when native Americans often don't live near their families? All my immediate family lives 1000 miles away. Where's my right to "family reunification?"

 

[Coyote]

I am not convinced on the pathway to citizenship issue. Why is it necessary?

I'm not convinced on the end to chain migration. Families are stabilizing elements in a society and having family members there to support an immigrant through the transition to American life is a good thing.

I'm not convinced we need to end the lottery. How about we quit talking about END to something and readjust proportions - increase merit based, decrease lottery.

Wall schmall - I support increasing border security.

Do you have a whole bunch of family members that you want to bring in from another country?

No, and even if I did - I couldn't. It simply doesn't work that way.

It is that way for the dreamers if DACA passes without that part taken out.
The Dems are standing on hard line for it.

So change it for just the Dreamers or - hell, give in and if their parents have been law abiding let them get legal residency. It's not hurting us. Spend the money on increasing security at the border and more important - spend the energy on fixing an antiquated cumbersome lengthy immigration system.

 

[Coyote]

If it takes 20 years to bring in someone beyond immediate family (spouse and minor children) - that's not adding anything up very fast.

You moved the goal posts by adding beyond immediate family. Of course you knowingly were deceptive.

I didn't move any goal posts, you neglected to read my preceding posts that clarified what chain migration is and who they can sponsor. Immediate family can usually get a VISA through this means fairly easily. For extended family members it can much longer - 20 years is not uncommon.

 

[Coyote]

Ok, lets clear out all the noise and partisanship. The Daca bill has been easily described as four pillars.

End to chain migration
End to lottery
The wall
Pathway to citizenship for dreamers

So fund the 20 billion for wall and security and pass the thing. I would vote for this in a heartbeat. It is a reasonable compromise. I would wager a hundred dollars that if this deal was presented to Americans for a vote it would pass by a super majority. Bring this bill in this simple form to the floor and vote on it. This is not rocket science. I can’t believe that even some of our libs would not support this. Get er done!

The thing of it is, the far left wants open boarders and chain migration and has taken a hard line stand on it.
That is exactly why they can't get it passed.

The far right has taken a hard line stand on DACA and insist on ending family reunification and the lottery. What's with that? That might be another reason it can't get passed.

Why should you get a visa because your nephew got a green card through amnesty?

Not going to happen.

It doesn't exactly work that easily. Beyond immediate family (spouse and minor children) - it can take years to get a visa for other family members, so the impression you are giving that they bring in dozens and hundreds of remote relatives as soon as they get their green card is false.

I'm very familiar with the issue. Why should immigrants have a right to "reunification" when native Americans often don't live near their families? All my immediate family lives 1000 miles away. Where's my right to "family reunification?"

Are they prevented from living near you? Do they lack choices? Or do they choose to NOT live near you

Nothing is stopping them...or you.

 

[saveliberty]

So change it for just the Dreamers or - hell, give in and if their parents have been law abiding let them get legal residency. It's not hurting us. Spend the money on increasing security at the border and more important - spend the energy on fixing an antiquated cumbersome lengthy immigration system.

...or just use the same border protection Mexico has on its southern border....

 

[Darkwind]

 

[Coyote]

Ok, lets clear out all the noise and partisanship. The Daca bill has been easily described as four pillars.

End to chain migration
End to lottery
The wall
Pathway to citizenship for dreamers

So fund the 20 billion for wall and security and pass the thing. I would vote for this in a heartbeat. It is a reasonable compromise. I would wager a hundred dollars that if this deal was presented to Americans for a vote it would pass by a super majority. Bring this bill in this simple form to the floor and vote on it. This is not rocket science. I can’t believe that even some of our libs would not support this. Get er done!

The thing of it is, the far left wants open boarders and chain migration and has taken a hard line stand on it.
That is exactly why they can't get it passed.

The far right has taken a hard line stand on DACA and insist on ending family reunification and the lottery. What's with that? That might be another reason it can't get passed.

So I and a girlfriend of mine have a whole bunch of Irish relatives We would want to bring in. But we can't because we all came in the right way legally under the laws.
All of my relatives came in legally not by chain immigration.
How about all of my German family?
Where does it end?
Special treatment for those in South American and Mexicans who can.
That's not right to all who came in here legally.

This doesn't make any sense.

You can sponsor foreign relatives for immigration if you are legal. In fact that is the only way you can.

Chain immigration IS legal. You realize that don't you?

And no, it's not special treatment for those in SA or Mexico. A lot of "chain immigration" includes the Irish, Chinese, and Indians.

 

[saveliberty]

I didn't move any goal posts, you neglected to read my preceding posts that clarified what chain migration is and who they can sponsor. Immediate family can usually get a VISA through this means fairly easily. For extended family members it can much longer - 20 years is not uncommon.

You realize that if you bring your sister in, she has a family too, so the brother-in-law is now eligible. Then he helps a sister-in-law and now half of Mexico can get in.

 

[Coyote]

I didn't move any goal posts, you neglected to read my preceding posts that clarified what chain migration is and who they can sponsor. Immediate family can usually get a VISA through this means fairly easily. For extended family members it can much longer - 20 years is not uncommon.

You realize that if you bring your sister in, she has a family too, so the brother-in-law is now eligible. Then he helps a sister-in-law and now half of Mexico can get in.

Well if it takes 20 years for each of them to get in then it's not going to add up to a lot fast and - legal immigration takes a long time. In fact shouldn't we focus our energy on fixing that bottleneck?

 

[Ridgerunner]

So change it for just the Dreamers or - hell, give in and if their parents have been law abiding let them get legal residency. It's not hurting us. Spend the money on increasing security at the border and more important - spend the energy on fixing an antiquated cumbersome lengthy immigration system.

...or just use the same border protection Mexico has on its southern border....

 

[DarkFury]

Why not just give a one time amnesty for not only the kids but the entire family? In the same bill can be 50 billion for the wall and extra enforcement on our borders.

We did that once before under Reagan. It did not work.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No citizenship. Ever. They are permanently banned from citizenship, by any means.

The bad behavior of their shithole parents CANNOT be rewarded.

Ah. So punish the kids for the actions of their parents. The rightwing mantra.

So punish the kids for the actions of their parents.

The kids, some as old as 36, aren't citizens.
They aren't here legally.
They should return to their country of origin.

A country they have no memory of. You are still punishing them for actions their parents took when they were children.

A country they have no memory of.

Some of them.......

You are still punishing them for actions their parents took

Okay.........

 

[Thinker101]

No citizenship. Ever. They are permanently banned from citizenship, by any means.

The bad behavior of their shithole parents CANNOT be rewarded.

Ah. So punish the kids for the actions of their parents. The rightwing mantra.

So punish the kids for the actions of their parents.

The kids, some as old as 36, aren't citizens.
They aren't here legally.
They should return to their country of origin.

A country they have no memory of. You are still punishing them for actions their parents took when they were children.

Great, since the parents came in illegally, send them back. If you don't want to break up the family, send the whole family back. The parents can refresh their kids memory.

 

[bripat9643]

The thing of it is, the far left wants open boarders and chain migration and has taken a hard line stand on it.
That is exactly why they can't get it passed.

The far right has taken a hard line stand on DACA and insist on ending family reunification and the lottery. What's with that? That might be another reason it can't get passed.

Why should you get a visa because your nephew got a green card through amnesty?

Not going to happen.

It doesn't exactly work that easily. Beyond immediate family (spouse and minor children) - it can take years to get a visa for other family members, so the impression you are giving that they bring in dozens and hundreds of remote relatives as soon as they get their green card is false.

I'm very familiar with the issue. Why should immigrants have a right to "reunification" when native Americans often don't live near their families? All my immediate family lives 1000 miles away. Where's my right to "family reunification?"

Are they prevented from living near you? Do they lack choices? Or do they choose to NOT live near you

Nothing is stopping them...or you.

If they want to live near their relatives, no one is stopping them from moving there. I moved away from my relatives. I didn't cry because they didn't move with me.

 

[saveliberty]

I didn't move any goal posts, you neglected to read my preceding posts that clarified what chain migration is and who they can sponsor. Immediate family can usually get a VISA through this means fairly easily. For extended family members it can much longer - 20 years is not uncommon.

You realize that if you bring your sister in, she has a family too, so the brother-in-law is now eligible. Then he helps a sister-in-law and now half of Mexico can get in.

Well if it takes 20 years for each of them to get in then it's not going to add up to a lot fast and - legal immigration takes a long time. In fact shouldn't we focus our energy on fixing that bottleneck?

Make up your mind, you just got done saying visas were easy for immediate family. I gave you a good example of how immediate relatives can multiply well beyond a single family very easily.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Anti-Irish Know Nothing Mob Burns a Charlestown Convent in 1834 - New England Historical Society

And then the Irish took over American oil and politics.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I'm actually torn on this subject, after having thought about it. I know the right thing to do is to follow the law, as we have to make the law mean something. If we don't, then people will trample it all day every day.

However, how do you tell a 12 year old kid, who has only ever known america, "sorry kid, you're here illegally, were sending you to mexico".


Imagine The horror that child will experience when he arrives at his new school, not speaking any Spanish, not knowing any of the customs and traditions, and not knowing a single person.

I have to agree that, for the child, it would not be fair.

Herein lies the crux of the dilemma. How do you enforce our laws without severely damaging a child?

There has to be consequence, otherwise there is nothing to deter future illegal crossings.

One thing is for sure, the border needs to secured...yesterday.

You don't punish innocent people to act as a deterence.

But the parents aren't innocent. I will agree, the child had no choice in the matter, but the parents did, and that has to be recognized. There needs to be a deterrent to let people know that we will not stand for this. However, the first thing we need to do is secure the border, build the wall, put all the latest tech on it to monitor and detect crossings.

Then, for those that were brought here after the age of...say 13, but are still under 25, then they must return to their origin country with their parents. If they arrived younger than 13 then maybe think about a way to start their citizenship proceedings.

For those over 25, I mean what do you do? They may already have a life built around them.

At the least, the parents will need to return, and there should be no provision to allow their family to join them here.

It also should be made VERY clear that, should they reproduce, the new child will not be granted citizenship because the parents had them here illegally, and the baby will return with the parents when the parents return. Otherwise, the parents could just keep having more children to avoid being deported. This should be a deterrent to the parents, because they will know what will happen.

Amnesty needs to be taken off the table.