Why Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Show me…

What did it expand to? Ten Teams?

How do you compare that to winning Championships with a league of 30 teams?

14, I explained it to you in a previous post, but you're pretty bull-headed, so it doesn't surprise me you're behind and not up to speed.

Meanwhile, with top talent in era A and top talent in era B, when talent is divided up between 14 teams and 30 teams, the 14 teams house more available talent, and thus, are tougher to beat. This is like 8th grade math, I don't know why you're struggling with it so. I understand you're on some goal to oppose me no matter what i say, but to make yourself look so mathematically stupid is shocking to observe.

 

[Quasar44]

The_Lyrical_Miracle
Lol
What a joke post

 

[candycorn]

Show me…

What did it expand to? Ten Teams?

How do you compare that to winning Championships with a league of 30 teams and the best players in the world?

NBA in Russels day was a sideshow sport
Winning their Championship was not that great an achievement

What the damn fool is also ignoring is that in today's modern sports atmosphere, it's much harder to win a championship because back then the teams that drafted you essentially owned you. Now this is a two way street--you can buy a championship team too (See Miami and Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Bosh) but it's always a short-term play because salaries are prohibitive over the long term. And you don't always know how the energy is going to work until you start playing together...the "buy a team" concept has failed much more than it has worked.

Russell, along with a talented supporting cast of future Hall of Famers including John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn, K. C. Jones, Sam Jones, Satch Sanders, and Bill Sharman, would usher the Celtics into the greatest period in franchise history, winning eight consecutive NBA championships from 1959 to 1966. Cousy was also there. Free agency makes it much harder to keep a team together. This is a long way of saying that if the players are able to sell their talents on the open market, you likely don't have those 8 championships in a row. And Russell's impressive record (nobody is denying that) isn't so impressive.

 

[rightwinger]

14, I explained it to you in a previous post, but you're pretty bull-headed, so it doesn't surprise me you're behind and not up to speed.

Meanwhile, with top talent in era A and top talent in era B, when talent is divided up between 14 teams and 30 teams, the 14 teams house more available talent, and thus, are tougher to beat. This is like 8th grade math, I don't know why you're struggling with it so. I understand you're on some goal to oppose me no matter what i say, but to make yourself look so mathematically stupid is shocking to observe.

Your so called “logic” is baffling

Beating 29 other teams is easier than beating out 7 other teams for a Championship

 

[Couchpotato]

LMAO you just googled NBA centers and pasted their nicknames like you actually watched them play and know context. It's cute.

You got that link to a credible site that has Russell as the GOAT?

I didnt think so.

 

[Papageorgio]

I'd disagree based on the circumstances of championships.

Brady was a sub-par QB for 3 of his Super Bowl wins, an average QB for a couple.. .and he certainly earned a few as well. I'm not trying to downplay him, he's an all-time, top 3 QB in NFL history.. but people assume that throughout his career he tore up the NFL.. that's not the case.

Tom Brady stats, won 7 Super Bowl champion 5 Super Bowl MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs 15 Pro Bowls All Pro 6 times, NFL's all time passing TD leader at 624, NFL's all passing yard leader over 85000 yards Most career wins: at 243. Then you have the intangibles. I put Brady the best QB of all time, not the best to ever play football.

How can Brady be a sub-par QB in 3 of his 7 Super Bowl wins as you claim, and still get 5 MVPs? Your dislike of Brady shows through.

 

[candycorn]

I'd disagree based on the circumstances of championships.

Brady was a sub-par QB for 3 of his Super Bowl wins, an average QB for a couple.. .and he certainly earned a few as well. I'm not trying to downplay him, he's an all-time, top 3 QB in NFL history.. but people assume that throughout his career he tore up the NFL.. that's not the case.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

The_Lyrical_Miracle
Lol
What a joke post

Um. Okay.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

This is a long way of saying that if the players are able to sell their talents on the open market, you likely don't have those 8 championships in a row. And Russell's impressive record (nobody is denying that) isn't so impressive.

I understand your point, and I agree it's a factor when comparing generations.. but I'm not going to use it to entirely de-legimitize a player, because he merely played in the era he lived in. Russell faced his own superteam when Jerry West and Wilt teamed up on the Lakers. Russell faced many stacked teams, many times the underdog, and in the end was the alpha dog on a team that came out on top for the most times out of anyone.

You're clearly trying to undercut all aspects of previous generations to bolster up the ones you want exalted. I'm no old man (well, maybe to 20 year olds), so It's not like I'm some 70 year old saying "get off my lawn". I simply respect and acknowledge the dominance and greatness of teams that might not look as sexy as the ones in the modern era.. and isn't that what it really comes down to? Many young folk like the sylistic points.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

This is quite literally the dumbest argument I've heard for someone being the GOAT. Great job.

Coming from the simplicity you're wrapped up in, it doesn't surprise me you'd think that.

Let that sink in for a second.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Your so called “logic” is baffling

Beating 29 other teams is easier than beating out 7 other teams for a Championship

So Let me get this straight.

You think when the available talent for a generation is spread out among 30 teams, it's more DIFFICULT to win than if all the top talent was condenced into 8 teams (which you continue to reference but only makes up a small percentage of what I'm talking about.. you should write for CNN).

Let's equate that to today. This is based on CBSSports top 100 ranked players, and filling out rosters splitting top tier and middle tier starters in the league.

Team 1: KD, Bradley Beal, Khris Middleton, Ben Simmons, Russell Westbrook
Team 2: Lebron, Jimmy Butler, Karl Anthony Towns, Ja Morant, Pascal Siakam
Team 3: Giannis, Zion, Devin Booker, Jrue Holiday, Domantas Sabonis
Team 4: Curry, Kawhi Leanord, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, CJ McCollum
Team 5: Luka, Paul George, Trae Young, Bam Adebayo, Klay Thompson
Team 6: Harden, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, De'Aaron Fox, Gordan Hayward
Team 7: Embiid, Jayson Tatum, Kyrie, Zach Lavine, Demar Derozan
Team 8: Jokic, Damian Lillard, Chris Paul, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart

So if one of those teams won 8 straight titles and one player won 11 titles.. well, they're the greatest of all time, easily. All of those "8 teams" that you reference are stacked with the best talent available, just as happened during Russell's era.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

How can Brady be a sub-par QB in 3 of his 7 Super Bowl wins as you claim, and still get 5 MVPs? Your dislike of Brady shows through.

Um, he was a very average, to above-average QB in his first 3 Super Bowl runs. In one he didn't even throw a single TD pass, in another he only threw 1. He didn't "win" those, he game-managed a great team with all-time great coaching and defense.

What a silly claim you make, referencing career numbers without any context of what actually happened those years. My goodness.

 

[Couchpotato]

14, I explained it to you in a previous post, but you're pretty bull-headed, so it doesn't surprise me you're behind and not up to speed.

Meanwhile, with top talent in era A and top talent in era B, when talent is divided up between 14 teams and 30 teams, the 14 teams house more available talent, and thus, are tougher to beat. This is like 8th grade math, I don't know why you're struggling with it so. I understand you're on some goal to oppose me no matter what i say, but to make yourself look so mathematically stupid is shocking to observe.

You’re assuming an equal amount of talent in each era. Which there wasn’t. There are more than twice the people on earth now as in 1960. In the 60’s the NBA wasn’t a global sport Like it is today. In 1960 there wasnt nearly the opportunity to play basketball for nearly as many kids as today. In other words there were probably a decent number of people who would have been really good at basketball but who just never played. There is at least a exponentially greater chance of that happening in 1960 vs today. There is likely a much denser concentration of talent across all 30 teams today then there were across 14 in the 60’s.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

You’re assuming an equal amount of talent in each era. Which there wasn’t. There are more than twice the people on earth now as in 1960. In the 60’s the NBA wasn’t a global sport Like it is today. In 1960 there wasnt nearly the opportunity to play basketball for nearly as many kids as today. In other words there were probably a decent number of people who would have been really good at basketball but who just never played. There is at least a exponentially greater chance of that happening in 1960 vs today. There is likely a much denser concentration of talent across all 30 teams today then there were across 14 in the 60’s.

Well, if you're going to use that argument, then you have to discredit the Bird-MJ-Magic 80's and 90's severely because they only played American players and didn't have to face the Euro superstars that have come over...

Right?

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Tom Brady stats, won 7 Super Bowl champion 5 Super Bowl MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs 15 Pro Bowls All Pro 6 times, NFL's all time passing TD leader at 624, NFL's all passing yard leader over 85000 yards Most career wins: at 243. Then you have the intangibles. I put Brady the best QB of all time, not the best to ever play football.

How can Brady be a sub-par QB in 3 of his 7 Super Bowl wins as you claim, and still get 5 MVPs? Your dislike of Brady shows through.

Dude, you can downvote me all you want without replying to my point, but you can't back up your point.

 

[rightwinger]

So if one of those teams won 8 straight titles and one player won 11 titles.. well, they're the greatest of all time, easily. All of those "8 teams" that you reference are stacked with the best talent available, just as happened during Russell's era.

The major flaw in your argument
Not only were there 8 teams but the talent level was weak.
Chuck Connors played in the NBA
The NBA was a sideshow sport fielding teams in Syracuse, Rochester, Ft Wayne…..anywhere that they could find an arena

Top athletes found other sports. The Celts were an all star team with six future HOFers
Of course they won.

 

[sealybobo]

I saw Russell play
He was third best in his era
Behind Wilt and Oscar

Since then
MJ, Lebron, Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq have been better

Winning championships in a league with seven teams does not make you the GOAT

He was probably as good as a Durant, Tim Duncan, dirk, Hakeem, etc. A great great player no doubt but certainly not the goat.

 

[sealybobo]

Not live, but I'm a student who actually took the time to watch plenty of 60's basketball with my dad.

I saw Russell, I saw Wilt, I saw Jerry West, I saw Magic, Bird, MJ, Lebron...

The list is:

1. Russell
2. Lebron
3. MJ
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. West.

And you put lebron over mj? Mj would have destroyed lebron. Defensively he would have shut lebron down all while scoring 40

 

[sealybobo]

Shaq is a tough cookie to measure all-time. He's like Larry Bird.. so dominant for such a short amount of time.. like 7-8 years.

I think if he would have also won in Orlando before going to LA, I’d be arguing a little more for him but he didn’t. Hakeem beat him.

 

[sealybobo]

Bill Russell is the GOAT of Basketball: Here's why...

- 11 NBA Championships. He won the NBA championship in 85% of the seasons he played.
- 5 MVP's
- 12 times NBA All Star
- Arguably the best defender in NBA history
- Averaged for his career 15 ppg, 22.5 rpg, 4.3 apg

The Celtics had Red Auerbach, Bob Cousey, and other good Celtics players before Russell was on the team and they never made the NBA finals. The Celtics only saw true success once Russell arrived.

More stats:
- Bill missed 4 games in 1962 and they went 0-4 (with Cousy, Sharman, and Coach Red), then he missed 5 games in 1969 and they went 0-5 (with Sam Jones, Havilicek, etc.). And those two streaks are the two largest losing streaks in the entire career of Bill Russell. The guy didn't lose much.
- When Russell retired, the Celtics went from a 48 win team to a 34 win team, even though Havlicek, and other all stars continued playing
- Russell averaged 20 rebounds per game in 10 of the 13 years he played, and once hauled in 51 rebounds.

There was no player that had more grit and will to win than Bill Russell. He kept some of the greatest players of all time from winning championships.. such as Jerry West, Wilt Chaimberlin, Elgin Baylor, and Oscar Robertson.

I googled nba greates defenders.

• Scottie Pippen.
• Hakeem Olajuwon.
• Bill Russell.
• Wilt Chamberlain.
• Tim Duncan.
• Gary Payton.
• Michael Jordan.
• David Robinson.