Why Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT

[Papageorgio]

Your so called “logic” is baffling

Beating 29 other teams is easier than beating out 7 other teams for a Championship

Talent wise, the talent was deep in the 60’s because their were fewer teams. The different from then to today is the skill level, the training, the science, makes today’s players much better.

I put Russell in the top ten, but not the G.O.A.T. I think that belongs to MJ, then James. In second. Russell and Chamberlin dominated as players.

Chuck Conners played in the NBA and in the MLB. He was a really good athlete.

 

[candycorn]

He was probably as good as a Durant, Tim Duncan, dirk, Hakeem, etc. A great great player no doubt but certainly not the goat.

I wish those guys had Russell's attitude. Dream did but there is a "softness" in the big men today that seems to permeate. Dwight Howard, to me, is one of the biggest disappointments in the history of basketball. Yeah he has the stats but he should have been a transcendent player; up there with the unquestioned greats.

 

[Couchpotato]

Talent wise, the talent was deep in the 60’s because their were fewer teams. The different from then to today is the skill level, the training, the science, makes today’s players much better.

I put Russell in the top ten, but not the G.O.A.T. I think that belongs to MJ, then James. In second. Russell and Chamberlin dominated as players.

Chuck Conners played in the NBA and in the MLB. He was a really good athlete.

Except that it really wasnt. You're making the same mistake LM is making thinking that the talent pool per era per sport is essentially the same so fewer teams means more concentrated talent. It's just not the case. Far more factors go into it than that. The world pop has doubled since the 60's, the NBA is a global sport now (in the 60's it was barely regional), far more people have the opportunity to play basketball in their youth. The opportunity to become an instant millionaire if you're good enough is a huge driver as well. Bill Russell was the highest paid player in the league making 100,001 per year. And while that was a lot of money in the 60's it wasnt generational wealth like the super stars today make. Kids didnt grow up in the 40-50's thinking they were going to be an nba star.

 

[sealybobo]

I wish those guys had Russell's attitude. Dream did but there is a "softness" in the big men today that seems to permeate. Dwight Howard, to me, is one of the biggest disappointments in the history of basketball. Yeah he has the stats but he should have been a transcendent player; up there with the unquestioned greats.

I remember the exact day Dwight Howard lost it

On April 5, 2012, then-Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy confirmed a report that had circulated a day earlier that then-Magic star center Dwight Howard wanted him fired.

 

[Couchpotato]

So Let me get this straight.

You think when the available talent for a generation is spread out among 30 teams, it's more DIFFICULT to win than if all the top talent was condenced into 8 teams (which you continue to reference but only makes up a small percentage of what I'm talking about.. you should write for CNN).

Let's equate that to today. This is based on CBSSports top 100 ranked players, and filling out rosters splitting top tier and middle tier starters in the league.

Team 1: KD, Bradley Beal, Khris Middleton, Ben Simmons, Russell Westbrook
Team 2: Lebron, Jimmy Butler, Karl Anthony Towns, Ja Morant, Pascal Siakam
Team 3: Giannis, Zion, Devin Booker, Jrue Holiday, Domantas Sabonis
Team 4: Curry, Kawhi Leanord, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, CJ McCollum
Team 5: Luka, Paul George, Trae Young, Bam Adebayo, Klay Thompson
Team 6: Harden, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, De'Aaron Fox, Gordan Hayward
Team 7: Embiid, Jayson Tatum, Kyrie, Zach Lavine, Demar Derozan
Team 8: Jokic, Damian Lillard, Chris Paul, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart

So if one of those teams won 8 straight titles and one player won 11 titles.. well, they're the greatest of all time, easily. All of those "8 teams" that you reference are stacked with the best talent available, just as happened during Russell's era.

Pick your all-star team from the 50-60's and put them in the NBA today. They are a bottom feeder. They might win 10 games all year. And they dont get beat by a little bit they are run off the court by halftime every night. The NBA might have to institute a mercy rule for that season when teams play them.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

You’re assuming an equal amount of talent in each era. Which there wasn’t. There are more than twice the people on earth now as in 1960. In the 60’s the NBA wasn’t a global sport Like it is today. In 1960 there wasnt nearly the opportunity to play basketball for nearly as many kids as today. In other words there were probably a decent number of people who would have been really good at basketball but who just never played.

The same can be said about every player in every sport that isn't playing today. I'm just saying you have to keep the context, you're torching it. If you want to be taken seriously, I'd stop that practice.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

The major flaw in your argument
Not only were there 8 teams but the talent level was weak.
Chuck Connors played in the NBA
The NBA was a sideshow sport fielding teams in Syracuse, Rochester, Ft Wayne…..anywhere that they could find an arena

Top athletes found other sports. The Celts were an all star team with six future HOFers
Of course they won.

Again, you have to explain where all the 6'6" + athletes went.. because they didn't play baseball or football.

No, you're making up a narrative and trying to drive it, but it has no wheels.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Pick your all-star team from the 50-60's and put them in the NBA today. They are a bottom feeder. They might win 10 games all year.

I'm not dumb enough to compare eras straight up as you are. I learned that the issue is more complex than that when I graduated 7th grade.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

He was probably as good as a Durant, Tim Duncan, dirk, Hakeem, etc. A great great player no doubt but certainly not the goat.

Durant: 2 championships, 1 MVP
Duncan: 5 championships, 2 MVP's
Dirk: 1 championship, 1 MVP
Hakeem: 2 championships, 1 MVP
Russell: 11 championships, 5 MVP's

One of these things is greater than the others. I'm beginning to realize you know very little about sports.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

And you put lebron over mj? Mj would have destroyed lebron. Defensively he would have shut lebron down all while scoring 40

LOL, you talk like a 7th grader.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

. I think that belongs to MJ,

okay.. why?

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I wish those guys had Russell's attitude. Dream did but there is a "softness" in the big men today that seems to permeate. Dwight Howard, to me, is one of the biggest disappointments in the history of basketball. Yeah he has the stats but he should have been a transcendent player; up there with the unquestioned greats.

Agreed, he was the Cam Newton of the NFL.. more obsessed with his appearance, stats, and online profile than his game... not that his game was bad at his prime, he just had clear potential he didn't tap into, he could have been an all-time great.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

You're making the same mistake LM is making

Dude, you're making the mistake by comparing people Back To the Future Style and ripping them out of their times and comparing them straight up. I couldn't think of anything more short-sighted or dumb.

 

[sealybobo]

So Let me get this straight.

You think when the available talent for a generation is spread out among 30 teams, it's more DIFFICULT to win than if all the top talent was condenced into 8 teams (which you continue to reference but only makes up a small percentage of what I'm talking about.. you should write for CNN).

Let's equate that to today. This is based on CBSSports top 100 ranked players, and filling out rosters splitting top tier and middle tier starters in the league.

Team 1: KD, Bradley Beal, Khris Middleton, Ben Simmons, Russell Westbrook
Team 2: Lebron, Jimmy Butler, Karl Anthony Towns, Ja Morant, Pascal Siakam
Team 3: Giannis, Zion, Devin Booker, Jrue Holiday, Domantas Sabonis
Team 4: Curry, Kawhi Leanord, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, CJ McCollum
Team 5: Luka, Paul George, Trae Young, Bam Adebayo, Klay Thompson
Team 6: Harden, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, De'Aaron Fox, Gordan Hayward
Team 7: Embiid, Jayson Tatum, Kyrie, Zach Lavine, Demar Derozan
Team 8: Jokic, Damian Lillard, Chris Paul, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart

So if one of those teams won 8 straight titles and one player won 11 titles.. well, they're the greatest of all time, easily. All of those "8 teams" that you reference are stacked with the best talent available, just as happened during Russell's era.

That's what I say. Fewer teams, better talented teams. It's obvious.

I love the NBA especially this era we are in. New guys stepping up. Jayson Tatum beating Durant by scoring 54. WOW. Who is that guy? And Embiid. Or Yianni. New guys winning not the old guys like Durant, Curry, Lebron or Chris Paul. I don't think any of them are going to win a championship this year.

 

[Papageorgio]

That's what I say. Fewer teams, better talented teams. It's obvious.

I love the NBA especially this era we are in. New guys stepping up. Jayson Tatum beating Durant by scoring 54. WOW. Who is that guy? And Embiid. Or Yianni. New guys winning not the old guys like Durant, Curry, Lebron or Chris Paul. I don't think any of them are going to win a championship this year.

Tatum has been lighting it up for five years now, where have you been?

 

[sealybobo]

Tatum has been lighting it up for five years now, where have you been?

If you don't make it far in the playoffs, I don't pay too much attention to you.

And I sort of took the last couple years off because I was sick of it always being Golden State or Lebron always winning. I always watch the playoffs though and I probably didn't see Boston's series last year in the playoffs.

It's the playoffs imo where you make your name. For example, Love. The guy who won with Lebron. I haven't seen him play since he won the title with Lebron. Why would I watch a Cleveland game right? They suck. I never even see highlights on sportscenter. They're like my Pistons. Unwatchable. Although we have this Cade Cunningham. Can we keep him? Can we build around him? But I understand they're (Cleveland) doing better now too so I'll start paying closer attention.

Now that I see all these new guys taking over the league, I'll start paying attention.

Here's another guy I don't know much about but he's been around. DeMar DeRozan. He been in the league for 9 years I'm just now getting to know him. He's making the Bulls better. I thought maybe he won a championship in Toronto but I think they traded him and THEN won a championship. Which reminds me. I wonder if Kawhi Leonard will ever win another championship. I think him and Paul George should take the year off, get a good draft pick and try to win next year.

 

[Couchpotato]

That's what I say. Fewer teams, better talented teams. It's obvious.

I love the NBA especially this era we are in. New guys stepping up. Jayson Tatum beating Durant by scoring 54. WOW. Who is that guy? And Embiid. Or Yianni. New guys winning not the old guys like Durant, Curry, Lebron or Chris Paul. I don't think any of them are going to win a championship this year.

By this logic, in 1932 football teams must have been ******* amazing. There were only 8 teams in the league. Can you imagine the concentration of talent on these teams??? Crazy...

 

[sealybobo]

By this logic, in 1932 football teams must have been ******* amazing. There were only 8 teams in the league. Can you imagine the concentration of talent on these teams??? Crazy...

I bet the worst NBA team today would beat the best team back then.

Are you guys watching Winning Time on HBO? It's about the Lakers. It starts with Magic fresh off a National Championship. He's probably going 1 to the Lakers and Bird to the Celtics. Jack McKinney was not happy about it. Norm Nixon was already one of the best in the league and felt threatened by Magic. The owner called him boy and offered him $300,000. He said he wanted $600,000 or he'd go back to college. Jerry Buss played by John C Riley seems like he was a very very cool guy. Took a lot of guts to buy that team. Great show. Kareem is an asshole. I always knew that but they confirm it. Kid asks for his autograph he said **** YOU KID.

What ever happened to Norm Nixon? He must have got traded because I don't remember him being on the team. I can't wait till episode 2.

 

[Papageorgio]

If you don't make it far in the playoffs, I don't pay too much attention to you.

And I sort of took the last couple years off because I was sick of it always being Golden State or Lebron always winning. I always watch the playoffs though and I probably didn't see Boston's series last year in the playoffs.

It's the playoffs imo where you make your name. For example, Love. The guy who won with Lebron. I haven't seen him play since he won the title with Lebron. Why would I watch a Cleveland game right? They suck. I never even see highlights on sportscenter. They're like my Pistons. Unwatchable. Although we have this Cade Cunningham. Can we keep him? Can we build around him? But I understand they're (Cleveland) doing better now too so I'll start paying closer attention.

Now that I see all these new guys taking over the league, I'll start paying attention.

Here's another guy I don't know much about but he's been around. DeMar DeRozan. He been in the league for 9 years I'm just now getting to know him. He's making the Bulls better. I thought maybe he won a championship in Toronto but I think they traded him and THEN won a championship. Which reminds me. I wonder if Kawhi Leonard will ever win another championship. I think him and Paul George should take the year off, get a good draft pick and try to win next year.

Cavs are the sixth seed in the East, ten games over .500, one game behind Boston and 5.5 games behind the number one seed Miami. Are you sure you are following the NBA this year?Pistons are 30 games under .500.

 

[sealybobo]

Cavs are the sixth seed in the East, ten games over .500, one game behind Boston and 5.5 games behind the number one seed Miami. Are you sure you are following the NBA this year?Pistons are 30 games under .500.

I'm not on top of who's in what place. I'm just paying attention to hope the Lakers don't make the playoffs, or the Nets. And if they do, get bounced early.

Are the bucks number one? Miami? Cavs? Boston? That's what I'm saying bro! I'm starting to pay attention and I love what I see. Started at the All Star Weekend when I saw a bunch of new guys I hadn't heard much about before like the center who won the three point shooting. There are some new players out west too who I'm just now paying attention to.

How about Jokic and Doncic? Wow!