Why Allow Gun Ownership?

[BlindBoo]

Congress didn’t set up militias. Congress didn’t exist when Lexington and Concord happened. Militias were independent associations of free men who elected their own leaders, or were raised and equipped by rich men who led them. Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders were a militia unit that he raised officially called the 1st US Volunteer Cavalry,

They coopted the existing Colonial militias when they ratified the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 16:

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; . . .

The Supreme Court has characterized Congress’s power over the militia as being unlimited, except in the two particulars of officering and training them under the Militia Clauses,1 such that the power may be exercised to any extent that may be deemed necessary by Congress

Background Reading on Colonial Militias · SHEC: Resources for Teachers

Primary resources, classroom activities, graphic organizers and lesson plans produced by the American Social History Project designed for use in K-12 classrooms.

shec.ashp.cuny.edu

 

[Stryder50]

A shotgun is indeed a great weapon for bedroom defense. You have an intruder in your house. You crouch behind your bed with your shotgun pointed at the locked bedroom door and call the cops. If the intruder breaks the door down you get a second to make damn sure he is a true danger and then you blow him away.

A shotgun is not a great weapon if you like to play Wyatt Earp and clear your house by yourself. The bad guy can grab the long barrel of the shotgun and twist it away from you. He can also get behind an object and wait for you to walk into a room and then he can blow you away.

I once lived in a big home that was once of hotel with several renters. If I woke up hearing an odd noise I would grab a snub nosed .38 and slip it into my pants pocket and go investigate. I never ran into an intruder but I did encounter people coming home at odd hours. I didn’t scare anyone as they never know the hand in my pocket was on a handgun.

If I still lived in that large home today I would install cameras in the kitchen and living room. I then could determine if I had a real problem or not.

In my case, living out "in the country" on a homestead (1/2 acre), we sometimes have four legged varmints as well as two legged varmints to consider. In that case the shotgun can be a versatile "home" defense weapon. Bird shot for smaller critters (or warning shots), buck/00 (usually 9 pellets of 9mm size) for large targets, and then solid slug if needed ;-) .

I have a basic Mossberg 500 - 12gauge shotgun that came with two barrels (can change relatively quickly). The 27" for skeet and hunting(bird) use and an 18" for closer range, including in home if needed. That shorter barrel is not much further than the forward grip and someone trying to grab it might find I still have enough leverage with two hands versus their one at the end to twist about enough to fire. Not to mention that firing off a round has a shock and heat factor which might cause them to release their grip. The it would be a matter of how quick can I pump in another round.

Nevertheless, I usually go for a pistol if it's an interior intruder situation, or that late night unexpected knock on the door. Usually that's my smaller (compact) Kahr K9 (9 mm) semi-auto*, held behind my backside.

If you are only going to have ONE firearm, than a shotgun is usually the most versatile.

* That Kahr K9 is my usual conceal carry since I have a holster for tuck inside waistband

 

[Stryder50]

It's been mentioned already, but one handy source for information and useful articles;

https://preparedgunowners.com/

 

[Resnic]

1. Hunting

2. Target practice

3. Self defense

Case 1 does not require semi auto magazine fed. Certain cases (bear hunting or wild boar) require a handgun but large caliber revolvers serve that purpose.

2. That makes it a toy. A deadly toy

3. Certainly not a magazine fed semi auto. A shot gun is an excellent weapon for home defense.

There are 300 million people and over 400 million guns. If guns truly were a danger we would all be dead right now.

With that out of the way. Who causes overwhelming vast majority of injuries and death due to guns each year? Criminals, dopeheads and crazy people. And as evidenced by the first paragraph those people are in the minority but they cause the majority of problems. So why don't we just ban dopeheads, criminals and crazy people from our society if they are the ones killing other people? Would america be safer if we banned all guns, or if we banned the people who use guns to hurt others?

Gun size, magazine size, none of that matters. If someone is going to go out and kill someone else they don't care if it's a 6 shot .38 revolver or a 17 shot 9mm, they are still going to go hurt someone with them.

If you got rid of every single gun right now in all of America you do you know what would still be here? Criminals, dopeheads and crazy people. The people who want to hurt others. If we got rid of those people we wouldn't need any gun laws and in fact gun sales and ownership would go do a lot because there would a ton of people who don't feel they need one anymore for protection.

 

[Stryder50]

They coopted the existing Colonial militias when they ratified the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 16:

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; . . .

The Supreme Court has characterized Congress’s power over the militia as being unlimited, except in the two particulars of officering and training them under the Militia Clauses,1 such that the power may be exercised to any extent that may be deemed necessary by Congress

Background Reading on Colonial Militias · SHEC: Resources for Teachers

Primary resources, classroom activities, graphic organizers and lesson plans produced by the American Social History Project designed for use in K-12 classrooms.

shec.ashp.cuny.edu

Fuller context of the preceding clauses related is helpful:
...
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
...
Also, the Second Amendment goes beyond this, which is what an 'amendment' is all about.
Also, note that part about "provide for" "arming". Who here, as part of the militia, as defined c. 1776 - 1789, has a Federal provided "arm"?

Full Text of the U.S. Constitution | Constitution Center

Read and share the complete text of the United States Constitution.

constitutioncenter.org

 

[Batcat]

In my case, living out "in the country" on a homestead (1/2 acre), we sometimes have four legged varmints as well as two legged varmints to consider. In that case the shotgun can be a versatile "home" defense weapon. Bird shot for smaller critters (or warning shots), buck/00 (usually 9 pellets of 9mm size) for large targets, and then solid slug if needed ;-) .

I have a basic Mossberg 500 - 12gauge shotgun that came with two barrels (can change relatively quickly). The 27" for skeet and hunting(bird) use and an 18" for closer range, including in home if needed. That shorter barrel is not much further than the forward grip and someone trying to grab it might find I still have enough leverage with two hands versus their one at the end to twist about enough to fire. Not to mention that firing off a round has a shock and heat factor which might cause them to release their grip. The it would be a matter of how quick can I pump in another round.

Nevertheless, I usually go for a pistol if it's an interior intruder situation, or that late night unexpected knock on the door. Usually that's my smaller (compact) Kahr K9 (9 mm) semi-auto*, held behind my backside.

If you are only going to have ONE firearm, than a shotgun is usually the most versatile.

* That Kahr K9 is my usual conceal carry since I have a holster for tuck inside waistband

When answering the door I often am holding a revolver behind a magazine (the type you read). If there is no problem and the person enters my home, I just lay the magazine and gun on a table.

I don’t like to make someone nervous.

 

[Lesh]

There are 300 million people and over 400 million guns. If guns truly were a danger we would all be dead right now.

With that out of the way. Who causes overwhelming vast majority of injuries and death due to guns each year? Criminals, dopeheads and crazy people. And as evidenced by the first paragraph those people are in the minority but they cause the majority of problems. So why don't we just ban dopeheads, criminals and crazy people from our society if they are the ones killing other people? Would america be safer if we banned all guns, or if we banned the people who use guns to hurt others?

Gun size, magazine size, none of that matters. If someone is going to go out and kill someone else they don't care if it's a 6 shot .38 revolver or a 17 shot 9mm, they are still going to go hurt someone with them.

If you got rid of every single gun right now in all of America you do you know what would still be here? Criminals, dopeheads and crazy people. The people who want to hurt others. If we got rid of those people we wouldn't need any gun laws and in fact gun sales and ownership would go do a lot because there would a ton of people who don't feel they need one anymore for protection.

All be dead?

Poor metric. We have the highest murder rate and highest gun death rate in the first world… by a lot

 

[Lesh]

When answering the door I often am holding a revolver behind a magazine (the type you read). If there is no problem and the person enters my home, I just lay the magazine and gun on a table.

I don’t like to make someone nervous.

You’re a dangerous paranoid moron. The type that shoots the pizza guy

 

[Damaged Eagle]

They coopted the existing Colonial militias when they ratified the Constitution.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 16:

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; . . .

The Supreme Court has characterized Congress’s power over the militia as being unlimited, except in the two particulars of officering and training them under the Militia Clauses,1 such that the power may be exercised to any extent that may be deemed necessary by Congress

Background Reading on Colonial Militias · SHEC: Resources for Teachers

Primary resources, classroom activities, graphic organizers and lesson plans produced by the American Social History Project designed for use in K-12 classrooms.

shec.ashp.cuny.edu

Are you suggesting that the United States incorporate all signed up for selective service have to do two years mandatory service like Israel and Switzerland do when a person comes of age?

We could do that and make it mandatory to serve in the National Guard, male and/or female, for two years to have the right to be called a citizen and the right to vote.

That would be fine by me because with equal rights comes equal responsibilities.

SMILE

 

[Papageorgio]

You’re a dangerous paranoid moron. The type that shoots the pizza guy

Typical left wing response, rhanks for not disappointing

 

[Dagosa]

I woke up hearing an odd noise I would grab a snub nosed .38 and slip it into my pants pocket and go investigate. I never ran into an intruder but I did encounter people coming

Exactly ! Probably the least appreciated but one of the most effective for home defense. If you’re worried about over penetration, and excessive noise, use target load full wad cutters.

Im not a fan of shotguns for inside the home defense defense arms. While all firearms are extremely loud inside, a 12 gauge means instant and permanent hearing loss. Then, everyone is at risk when the guy with the shot gun can’t hear anymore….

 

[Cellblock2429]

All be dead?

Poor metric. We have the highest murder rate and highest gun death rate in the first world… by a lot

/——/ Back out the Blue Cities gang violence and we’re way down the list.

 

[Dagosa]

View attachment 923248

Are you suggesting that the United States incorporate all signed up for selective service have to do two years mandatory service like Israel and Switzerland do when a person comes of age?

We could do that and make it mandatory to serve in the National Guard, male and/or female, for two years to have the right to be called a citizen and the right to vote.

That would be fine by me because with equal rights comes equal responsibilities.

SMILE

I think mandatory service of some type should be the norm for everyone, no excuses.

 

[Dagosa]

Back out the Blue Cities gang violence and we’re way down the list.

Huh ? You’re not math illiterate are you. The most dangerous states include red states, and especially in rural areas.. You know what “ rural “ means ?

 

[Polishprince]

I think mandatory service of some type should be the norm for everyone, no excuses.

Where would the money come from?

I suppose America could have millions more men in the military, but housing and training all of those people, not to mention arming them would be prohibitive. Further, we really don't have the number of wars and conflicts to engage the people in.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Huh ? You’re not math illiterate are you. The most dangerous states include red states, and especially in rural areas.. You know what “ rural “ means ?

/——/

 

[Batcat]

Exactly ! Probably the least appreciated but one of the most effective for home defense. If you’re worried about over penetration, and excessive noise, use target load full wad cutters.

Im not a fan of shotguns for inside the home defense defense arms. While all firearms are extremely loud inside, a 12 gauge means instant and permanent hearing loss. Then, everyone is at risk when the guy with the shot gun can’t hear anymore….

If you load your own ammo and have a .38 or .38/357 revolver you can take a lead 148 gr. hollow base wad cutter target projectile and turn it backward in the case leaving an enormous hollow point in the front of the cartridge. Even with the standard target load of powder this can be a nasty self defense round. On some guns this combination will keyhole. I never had this problem with my weapons but I never tried the combination in a snub nosed revolver.

If.38+P record is not a problem you can sonsider some 148 gr HBWC backward production ammo.

 

[Dagosa]

/——/
View attachment 923315

13 of the top 20 are red states….amazing

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Is that what the framers said?

COITUS Is a Government Document. Why Expect It to Give Us Freedom?

The Framers framed us. We tell them what our rights are; if they tell us, that makes them tyrants.

That's why I don't care about how the Constitution is interpreted. It's bad law any way those who worship it tell us what it means.

 

[westwall]

COITUS Is a Government Document. Why Expect It to Give Us Freedom?

The Framers framed us. We tell them what our rights are; if they tell us, that makes them tyrants.

That's why I don't care about how the Constitution is interpreted. It's bad law any way those who worship it tell us what it means.

It's bad if you are a fascist who wants to enslave the People.

On the other hand, if you love freedom from oppression, then it is excellent.