Who wants to defend the Federal Income Tax?

[Hector12]

Trump was generous to our military.

In a speech before the United Nations then President Trump bragged about raising military spending while cutting taxes. Like Reagan and Bush II Trump does not understand how hypocritical it is to cut taxes, raise military spending, and blame the Democrats for the growing national debt.

 

[Robert W]

In a speech before the United Nations then President Trump bragged about raising military spending while cutting taxes. Like Reagan and Bush II Trump does not understand how hypocritical it is to cut taxes, raise military spending, and blame the Democrats for the growing national debt.

Did the Democrats try to cut back spending?

 

[Robert W]

In a speech before the United Nations then President Trump bragged about raising military spending while cutting taxes. Like Reagan and Bush II Trump does not understand how hypocritical it is to cut taxes, raise military spending, and blame the Democrats for the growing national debt.

I want to read that speech. Thank you for supplying it.

 

[Robert W]

I want to read that speech. Thank you for supplying it.

One issue. We love to beat the Military to death. But isn't that part of the budget pretty minor compared to other spending?

 

[Hector12]

Well the word reactionary is code for you loved FDR.
The gist of your argument that if one selects a particular month, it seems as if FDR had great policies. However as it turns out, his gains were using the Hoover plans. And trust me the media wants that covered up.

Actually the public at large had to live with rations. We damned sure had wages capped. So the notion we were better off does not fit the true history of FDR. FDR and the country essentially was saved from more misery at home by WW2. But at the expense of the young men sent to fight that war.

You have not disproved anything I posted. During the Roosevelt years employment rates and the per capita gross domestic product improved steadily. That is why Roosevelt was re elected three times.

 

[dblack]

Trump was generous to our military.

Despite the fact that they're all "suckers"?

 

[Hector12]

I want to read that speech. Thank you for supplying it.

 

[Hector12]

Did the Democrats try to cut back spending?

Not for popular domestic spending programs. Republicans leave those programs alone because they know that they are popular with the voters.

 

[Winco]

We need to tremendously reduce the size of the Federal government.

No welfare, grants, bailouts, entitlements, foreign aid, subsidies or any of these worthless alphabet agencies that don't do anything of value but cost billions.

Instead of it costing $7.4 trillion a year with $2 Trillion of it being debt like we are getting with Potatohead it should cost arounf $1.5-2 Trillion a year.

We need to abolish both the Income and Corporate taxes.

I, as a Proud Home Owning American, that has a JOB, is totally fine with taxes.

Suck on that you traitor, anti-American *****.

 

[Robert W]

Thank you for bringing up an imprtant question about incom taxes. However, by positing it as something that is to be enjoyed or not is rather odd. Since it is really not something that anyone thiks about as enjoyable ,it seems to set a tones for being anti income tax. Lets think about this.

The issue of income tax, which is heavily relied upon to fund both state and federal government is closely tied to the debate about small and limited government vs, expansive and active government-often derided as the nanny state,

My position is and always has been that the debate should not be abut the size of government , but rather, about what government does, how well it does it, who benefits or suffers from what it does.

No one enjoys paying taxes of any kind, but neither do they enjoy ineffective and insufficient support and services from the government. Taxes pay for everything from police and fire protection, to the maintenance of bridges and roads, to ensuring the safety of food, drugs, water, and all consumer products, to national security and defense

You correctly point out the income tax was imposed in the early part of the 20th century This coincides with the advent of the progressive movement, championed by Teddy Roosevelt who promoted the concept that government exists for the purpose of making life better for people as opposed to government existing as a self serving end in itself. That principle has been built upon by progressives ever since resulting in the advancement of middle and working class Americans.

Yes the income tax is progressive. Those earning a higher income pay a greater percentage. And yes, you can decry that as socialism because it is, in effect a redistribution of wealth. But just as no systems of pure socialism is sustainable, neither is pure and unbridled capitalism. Then blending of those concepts has proven to be the best and most efficacious way of ensuring the well being of the masses.

Lets also remember that a flat tax, where everyone pays the same percentage is untenable. The working class would have to pay an amount that is unaffordable, while the amount that the wealthy pay would result in revenue far below what is need to sustain a functioning government. The worst idea that was recently floated by certain Republicans was to do away with the income tax in favor of a national sales tax of 40%! Think about the impact on people who work for a living and spend all of their earnings on essential goods as opposed to those who can sock away most of their earnings tax free. That would greatly accelerate the slippery slope towards an oligarchy that we are already sliding down as the result of Republican tax cuts for the wealthy

While many in this country decry the high taxes that we pay, it should be noted that there are countries where people pay much higher taxes, and they do so happily. They are happy because they do not have to worry about bankruptcy as a result of an illness. They do not have to worry about their roads and bridges collapsing under them. They have clean water and safe food and drugs. They have great schools and affordable housing and much more because the government provides those services . Denounce it as socialism if you like but I would be willing to pay higher taxes for better government

Hey, congratulations for an honest discussion. That is really all I wanted.

I prefer not to discuss other countries. This leads us to bad conclusions.
I will try to be more brief than you have been for the sake of concisely making points.
As to your critique of my using the term joy for paying taxes, when I read Democrats posts, it sure seems as if they really enjoy paying high taxes. They do not question what for. They made up their mind the Feds are right as long as the Feds are managed only by Democrats. Then the Democrats get to spend all they want with no questions asked.

Frankly if you ask 100 citizens what the Government does, the majority of them have no clue. And if you ask a million of them, they too have no clue what the Feds do.

When you speak of bridges, how many for example know that the vast network of bridges are paid for at the State level and not the Fed level? You will see a lot of don't knows on that.

One the nanny state idea. That is true. This is often called that by we Republicans. What are we trying to talk about? Well the feds can sure figure out how to take every dime we ever make too. And promise us that nanny state. Where we are essentially working for the Feds under the guise they provide us police and roads and shit, the entire list of crap.

Cops here are locally funded. So I tried to exclude the local taxes.
Roads that cross state lines can collect some funds. But it is not true that the Feds pay for all of those roads. States also kick in. That is a different topic since again, this is about the Feds role and not the states nor cities roles.

Asking how big should the Feds be is also my question. Must it be too big to fail? Must it consume 30 percent of our dollar? How about doing the job using only 10 percent. What the Mormons call Tithing to GOD. I suspect many religions would love to collect 10 percent for GOD. Why the hell can't the Feds declare enough is enough?

Under FDR who they love, he charged them up to around 90 percent. My god man, GOD can't keep up with the Democrats. Kennedy realized high taxes were bad. But for some reason Democrats today want us to return to 90 percent taxes. That is the meaning of the nanny state.

unbridled Capitalism means you and I are free to choose to make a deal or pass it by. If I pass your deal, I find a person with a better deal. It is a friendly way to do business.

Flat tax. I believe we must try that system. While as you say, all will pay the same, it is based on sales and not income. So if I decide to purchase more, I pay more taxes. Then some argue it will hurt business. but the amount left for us is more so we will adjust to that.

Accountants have that system all worked out. We have nothing to lose. We should try this and see if the naysayers are right. Try it as a trial run.

 

[Robert W]

Not for popular domestic spending programs. Republicans leave those programs alone because they know that they are popular with the voters.

I was not asking about Republicans, I was asking about Democrats. Did they work to cut those down? How much effort was by the Democrats to lower the national debt?

 

[Hector12]

I was not asking about Republicans, I was asking about Democrats. Did they work to cut those down? How much effort was by the Democrats to lower the national debt?

The Democrat plan to lower the national debt is to raise taxes on rich people and corporations.

 

[Robert W]

The Democrat plan to lower the national debt is to raise taxes on rich people and corporations.

If I was a jealous type of man, I would congratulate them for picking on the rich and famous and corporations. But as I am not jealous, I see that as piss poor ways to govern.

 

[Oddball]

If I was a jealous type of man, I would congratulate them for picking on the rich and famous and corporations. But as I am not jealous, I see that as piss poor ways to govern.

Note that curtailing spending, ending pointless foreign wars, and gutting useless bureaucracies is never ever a part of the plan.

 

[Robert W]

Note that curtailing spending, ending pointless foreign wars, and gutting useless bureaucracies is never ever a part of the plan.

Such as the war Biden is having over Ukraine?

 

[Robert W]

I, as a Proud Home Owning American, that has a JOB, is totally fine with taxes.

Suck on that you traitor, anti-American *****.

You could own a much better car and own a finer home but for Federal Income taxes.

This reminds me of the single women who are so lonely they buy what some dude tells them. That with him they have it made. Well they learn that he wants their money is all and this describes Democrats to a T. They love paying taxes. And hate keeping their own money.

 

[Oddball]

Such as the war Biden is having over Ukraine?

Foolhardy foreign policy began way before that shit show.

 

[Winco]

You could own a much better car and own a finer home but for Federal Income taxes.

I own my Home....700K value, but assessors have it valued at 50K ......LOL. Joking.
I own my vehicles (3 of them)....Jeep....Jeep....RamPU.......oh ya baby.
I proudly PAY my taxes without bitching, a RWI thing.

I don't NEED a better car or a finer home.
I'm so sorry, I really am, I'm so sorry that you can't do better.

 

[Blues Man]

Services are done at the level that makes the most sense

My local government plows the roads in front of my home and provides schools and some public services such as police and fire

My state provides universities and public highways and welfare

Federal provides the military, a monetary system, social security, postal system

If you think that's all the federal government does you need to get current on the the size and scope of our overreaching federal government

 

[rightwinger]

If you think that's all the federal government does you need to get current on the the size and scope of our overreaching federal government

We the People decide how much Government services we want