Zone1 Who Say That They are Jews and are Not

[GLASNOST]

It goes to bias/motivation.

Yes.

For instance the poster you are conversing with is a white supremacist.

Oh. I see.

Is that relevant?

I don't know but I guess it is logical.

 

[Quantrill]

Your not smart enough to get through the conversion. Ignoring the question isnt being unable to answer it. You simply dont matter.

Well, if you don't want to converse, why are you flapping your gums?

Ignoring the question means you don't want to answer it because it reveals something you would rather not speak about. You're afraid to answer what your Bible is and how many books are in it. Is your Bible the TANAKH? That's a start.

If I don't matter, just shut up and go away.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Such a celestial vocabulary.

You didn't answer anything because you’re really scared with your back against the wall and you know that answering my question will make you look very stupid.

My back is not against any wall. (Deut. 7:6) is clear. So, do you agree that the Jews are a chosen and special people unto God above all other people on earth as (Deut. 7:6) says?

Quantrill

 

[GLASNOST]

You didn't answer anything because you’re really scared with your back against the wall and you know that answering my question will make you look very stupid. Ignoring the question means you don't want to answer it because it reveals something you would rather not speak about.

My back is not against any wall.

Your back is most certainly is against the wall. You cannot clarify your statement because you don't even understand it.

(Deut. 7:6) is clear. So, do you agree that the Jews are a chosen and special people unto God above all other people on earth as (Deut. 7:6) says?

As regards with what? You still cannot answer that because you don't know what it means. Did God say he chose the Jews to play tennis better than everyone else? Did God say he chose the Jews to type with their toes? Did God say he chose the Jews to eat more lasagne than everyone else? You don't have any idea. You're just using words that you do not understand.

 

[norwegen]

Hmm, people are off topic in this thread. A lot of talk about Jews in the present tense. In reference to Jews in my posts, the tense is past.

Conflating post-bar Kokhba Jews with Jews of Judea and the temple cult was not my intention.

This thread is about actual Jews, descendants of Jacob, an ancient, tribal people.

Who among them were imposters, according to the Revelator?

 

[ding]

Yes.

Oh. I see.

I don't know but I guess it is logical.

So what horse do you have in this game as that would be relevant too?

 

[Kruska]

That's none of your business. Is it?

OK, let's have a look at it.

What?! You didn't even try to answer my question. All you did was copy and past the exact same thing as in your previous post. READ then ANSWER my question, otherwise you haven't said anything at all. Here it is again: In what capacity do think is meant by the Jews being "Above all people upon the face of the earth"? Above all others on the basketball court? Above all others as automobile repairmen? You have no idea and that is my point ..... you are making statements but you don't know shit.

Does it really matter?

In order to discuss this topic in view of what the Bible states - one would need to be convinced first, that the bible reflects the "factual" words and deeds/actions by God - and is not simple what it is - a self-written composed legend by Jews over centuries to simply give themselves rights and claims.

IMO this particular Semitic group/tribe, that adopted the idea of Monotheism from the Egyptians, simply needed a "proof" (naturally best via a God- who "coincidentally happens" to be their God) in order to justify themselves.

If you happen to be a "believer" - feel free to ignore my post.

 

[ding]

Hmm, people are off topic in this thread. A lot of talk about Jews in the present tense. In reference to Jews in my posts, the tense is past.

Conflating post-bar Kokhba Jews with Jews of Judea and the temple cult was not my intention.

This thread is about actual Jews, descendants of Jacob, an ancient, tribal people.

Who among them were imposters, according to the Revelator?

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, John of Patmos refers to a group in Smyrna and Philadelphia as a "synagogue of Satan" and as people who "say they are Jews and are not". These individuals are generally understood by scholars to be members of the local Jewish community who were actively persecuting or slandering the early Christian church.
Key insights on who John was referring to include:

• Non-Christian Jews: The most common interpretation is that they were ethnic Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah and, in doing so, were viewed by John as having forfeited their spiritual standing as "true" Jews, thus becoming agents of "Satan" (or "the Adversary") through their opposition.
• Persecutors of the Church: These groups are accused of slandering or informing on Christians to Roman authorities, which was a significant issue for the church in the first-century Roman world.
• A "Synagogue of Satan": The term "synagogue" refers to the local congregation or assembly, not Jews as a whole. John uses this phrase to describe a community that he believes has fallen under the influence of the Devil due to their hostile actions.
• "They Lie": In Revelation 3:9, they are called "liars" because their actions—persecuting believers—deny the God they claim to worship.
• Contextual Interpretation: Some academic interpretations suggest John may have been referring to "Judaizing" Christians or Gentile God-fearers in Asia Minor who were claiming the status of "Jew" while not adhering strictly to the Torah, or specifically to those who compromised with Roman society (unlike John, who insisted on strict separation).

The text is generally considered a local, first-century polemic rather than a universal condemnation of all Jewish people.

 

[Kruska]

Hmm, people are off topic in this thread. A lot of talk about Jews in the present tense. In reference to Jews in my posts, the tense is past.

Conflating post-bar Kokhba Jews with Jews of Judea and the temple cult was not my intention.

This thread is about actual Jews, descendants of Jacob, an ancient, tribal people.

Who among them were imposters, according to the Revelator?

How far do you want to go back?

All two, Abraham and Moses are referred to in the Bible as chosen. And received their orders by the "only true" God.
Moses is the "initiator" of claiming back some "promised" land. aka the "founder" of Israel.

Abraham is the only one who is "highlighted" as having established a formal covenant with God, with God later confirming it with the sign of circumcision. And had told him to go to Canaan.

Abraham is therefore the first Hebrew & founder of Judaism, who was promised to be the father of a great nation. As such the people living in Canaan were to be the seed that needed to be converted to this Judaism.

Around 600 years later Moses shows up with "his" Hebrew folks and claims the land that the descendants of Abraham occupy is his - since God promised him that particular land. Attacks them, devastates their land and cities and subdues them.

As such there must be a "significant" division between Hebrews stemming from Moses led folks and the initial Hebrew folks from Abraham's Canaan. The Egyptians around 1200 BC - destroyed this Moses initiated Israel - "All cities are destroyed, Israel doesn't exist anymore only their seed remains" So are the Abraham Hebrew's the ones who rise again and founded David&Solomon's Israel? or those invading Hebrews led by Moses rose up again? Or when did these two Hebrew clans become one, if at all?

Those Moses Hebrews danced around a golden calf - where they really Hebrews aka followers off the true Abraham Judaism?

Just asking.

 

[BreezeWood]

Says who? Show me. Prove Jesus clearly articulated that.

Quantrill

is that the 4th century - state religion of the roman empire - christian bible. they have no appendix of the saved documents they used to write their book, you are missled.

- the first century events, jesus clearly articulate the parity of all living beings by their repudiation of judaism.

the heavens have no concerns for any particular group differently than any other group of living beings.

the heavens who says, placed in the spirit of all beings when given life - that's your issue, abandoning the heavens for corrupt written desert bibles pandering to one illicit group or another ...

the first century events, jesus clearly articulate the parity of all living beings ... your needing a primer for what is given in the beginning makes you the same as the jews that sold their souls long ago for a bag of silver and earlier from the time of abraham.

 

[GLASNOST]

So what horse do you have in this game as that would be relevant too?

Is it your conviction that those seeking knowledge must have a preconceived goal in mind other than finding the truth?

 

[GLASNOST]

Does it really matter?

It matters very much.

In order to discuss this topic in view of what the Bible states - one would need to be convinced first, that the bible reflects the "factual" words and deeds/actions by God

Yes, of course. That is why using the bible as a source of anything within its pages matters very much .... exactly as you say, what is (or can be determined/surmised to be) factual.

- and is not simple what it is - a self-written composed legend by Jews over centuries to simply give themselves rights and claims.

Yes, and the Christians who have amended and blasphemed it.

IMO this particular Semitic group/tribe, that adopted the idea of Monotheism from the Egyptians, simply needed a "proof" (naturally best via a God- who "coincidentally happens" to be their God) in order to justify themselves.

"Coincidentally" is an improper term in this context. Anyway, Monotheism is only one philosophy of many but Judaism is less superstitious than the other so-called Monotheisms of Christianity and Islam. Actually, Christianity is not a Monotheism at all but falsely claims that it is.

If you happen to be a "believer" - feel free to ignore my post.

I am an Agnostic.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, and the Christians who have amended and blasphemed it.

I am not aware of this, so can you please point out to me,
where/when did Christians aka previous separatist Hebrew brethren, amend or blaspheme the OT?

Thanks.

 

[GLASNOST]

I am not aware of this, so can you please point out to me,
where/when did Christians aka previous separatist Hebrew brethren, amend or blaspheme the OT?

Thanks.

I am not an expert so I cannot go into many details ... but .... the fact that Christians say Jesus is the Messiah is a blasphemy. Correct? Judaism spells out rather clearly what the coming of the Messiah will mean to humanity and life. Jesus has done none of those things. I am not even saying Jesus claimed to be the Messiah (and I don't think he did) but Christianity says that he was the Messiah plus saying that he is god - those statements are blasphemous.

 

[theHawk]

That makes NO sense. You’re saying that the Jews who worshipped Jesus were the “real” Jews, and the ones who remained true to their faith were NOT the Jews?

Also, I don’t see that traditional Jews have been destroyed. We’re still here, despite attempts to eliminate us.

The Jews that rejected Christ were not true to their faith.


The Jews that rejected Jesus had to reinvent their religion hundreds of years later.

Talmudic Judaism is nothing like what Jews 2000 years ago practiced.

Christianity is the true continuation of the beliefs of the ancient Israelites.


Most “Jews” today aren’t even religious. Even the ones that claim to, don’t even read the Tanakh. When confronted to explain Old Testament passages, they run to their Rabbi and do their tap dance to evade the truth.

 

[theHawk]

I am not an expert so I cannot go into many details

Then why are you so sure of yourself?

Try reading the Bible from the beginning.

 

[theHawk]

Jews were traitors, that Judaism collapsed, etc., etc.

That’s all over the Old Testament as well. The entire story of Israel and the Jews is how they betrayed their believes and rejected God over and over, and basically became pagans. The prophets were the “religious nutjobs” that kept warning the Jews that God would punish them.

 

[ding]

Is it your conviction that those seeking knowledge must have a preconceived goal in mind other than finding the truth?

No. Just that people do. Are you afraid of me exploring your biases?

 

[Quantrill]

Your back is most certainly is against the wall. You cannot clarify your statement because you don't even understand it.

As regards with what? You still cannot answer that because you don't know what it means. Did God say he chose the Jews to play tennis better than everyone else? Did God say he chose the Jews to type with their toes? Did God say he chose the Jews to eat more lasagne than everyone else? You don't have any idea. You're just using words that you do not understand.

It is not my statement. It is the statement of God given in the Bible. (Deut. 7:6) "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth."

The Scripture is clear that Israel is a special people unto God above all other peoples. But you refuse to believe it. More Scripture will you disbelieve also.

(Exodus 19:3-6) "And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people; for all the earth is mine."

"And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

the heavens who says, placed in the spirit of all beings when given life - that's your issue, abandoning the heavens for corrupt written desert bibles pandering to one illicit group or another ...

the first century events, jesus clearly articulate the parity of all living beings ... your needing a primer for what is given in the beginning makes you the same as the jews that sold their souls long ago for a bag of silver and earlier from the time of abraham.

Again, how does Jesus clearly articulate the parity of all living beings?

Quantrill