Zone1 Who Say That They are Jews and are Not

[JoeB131]

I haven't lied about you. I responded to your post. Further, an anti-Christ is not someone who does not accept Christ. An anti-Christ is an active opponent of Christ, working against him, his Ways, his Church.

Lisa has done none of that, just as I have done nothing against Hindus other than say I do not worship Brahman. Lisa does not worship Jesus, she worships God and is faithful to the word of God. Again, Jesus said he did not come for those who got things right; like a physician who comes to the sick, he came for those who were having troubles getting things right in a fallen world/society.

A few falsely accused Jesus, a Jew. Lisa is a Jew, and like Jesus, is being falsely accused. Hopefully, it only by a few.

As Mark Twain said,

 

[SaxonJackson]

What, specifically, did I say that made you feel you were under attack?

I didn't say that I was under attack. You were attacking Carl. I simply found it odd that you were willing to trip over your self as you ran to defend someone who opposed Christ. I'm not sure what verse in the Bible supports that sort of thing. Maybe you can enlighten me.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Learn from Peter. He, who knew Jesus, denied him three times. Lisa knows the Father.

You can't have "The Father" without "The Son."

1 John 2:23, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

 

[Meriweather]

^ That directly contradicts a number of scriptures, including 1 John 2:23, which clearly states:

"No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."

Who does 1 John address? It addresses Christians, people of the Christian community. It does not address the world as a whole, and it does not address the Jewish community. Some former members of the community were denying Jesus was the Christ, and others were denying he was man at all. Gnosticism is what John was addressing; those who said they belonged to the Christian community, but believed Jesus was only God and not human; those who were saying Jesus was human but not divine. It was suggested having these different ideas about Jesus within the Christian community was perfectly alright and should be accepted by the leaders. In the Christian community, one who denies the Son does not have the Father, and those who confess the Son has the Father as well.

So...Let's not drag people of other faiths (and of no faith) into an old argument among Christians. It was settled long ago.

 

[SaxonJackson]

^^^^ not only is he antisemitic, he’s misogynist too.

You should run for office --- as a Democrat. You've mastered the use of "buzz words."

Misogynist
Homophobe
Xenophobe
Antisemite
Racist
Sexist
Bigot
Extremist
Transphobe

Old, boring, tired, worn out, and completely overused.

 

[GLASNOST]

It is indeed sad, is it not, that there are still Christians today who are calling Jews nasty names (i.e., “anti-Christ” people) and moaning about a small band of Jews - 99% of the Jews of his time had never even heard of Jesus - angry at him for something-or-other and possibly having a role in his crucifixion, from 2,000 years ago.

You anti-Semites are all the same. Hate is your favourite emotion.

 

[Meriweather]

He also might point out that some are giving Jews false hope in "many paths"

You're teaching a lie. You're denying Christ before men

You don't believe God made an eternal covenant with Jews? You don't believe Jews walk the Way of God as instructed?

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't say that I was under attack. You were attacking Carl. I simply found it odd that you were willing to trip over your self as you ran to defend someone who opposed Christ. I'm not sure what verse in the Bible supports that sort of thing. Maybe you can enlighten me.

Lisa is not opposed to Christ. Christians tell her Jesus is both human and divine. This is Christian teaching, not Jewish teaching. She has no problem with Gentiles believing as Gentiles wish, and she has no problem with Jews believing differently, according to their own covenant with God.

Who else are you demanding believe as you do? Who else are you demanding break their covenant?

 

[Meriweather]

You can't have "The Father" without "The Son."

1 John 2:23, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

Again, Christian belief. It was not Gnostic belief, and it is not Jewish belief. Christians believe God is One--One consisting of Creator, Word, and Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

As Mark Twain said,

By definition Christ would be Christian--He would just live it a lot better than any of his followers do. He is a hard act to follow.

 

[BreezeWood]

You don't believe God made an eternal covenant with Jews? You don't believe Jews walk the Way of God as instructed?

your entire argument is based on a single individual, abraham from 3000 years ago who's claim lacks a shred of evidence and is supported by those that benefit as himself by what is said of others with such a fable as theirs in short being - a liar.

not to mention your support for a group presently committing the greatest atrocity, genocide since ww2 the literal annihilation of palestinians.

- the heavens have nothing to do with judaism or any of the phony three desert religions.

 

[Quantrill]

The old covenant was given to Israel. It is NOT evil. But it wasn't the "better covenant"

That is true, the old covenant was not evil, and it wasn't the better covenant.

But, the New Covenant was promised to Israel which would replace the Old Covenant.

(Jeremiah 31:31-32) "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

Then follows the promises of God that He will not cast off Israel forever. (Jer. 31:33-37)

That New Covenant was established upon the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit. And we who are Christian, be we Jew or Gentile, come into that Covenant, and make up the Church of Jesus Christ.

But that New Covenant was/is for the nation of Israel. (Jer. 31:31) And God has promised that He will make it with them. (Jer. 31:33) At present, Israel, on the whole, rejects Jesus Christ and is under a judicial blindness from God. But there is a future day when God will lift that blindness. (Acts 3:19-26) (Rom. 11:1) (Rom. 11:25)

That day is marvelously pictured with Joseph and his brethren, which is not just a story but an actual event that really occurred. (Genesis 45:1-7) And on that day, all who make up the nation of Israel shall repent and be saved. (Rom. 11:26-28)

Quantrill

 

[SaxonJackson]

Lisa is not opposed to Christ. Christians tell her Jesus is both human and divine. This is Christian teaching, not Jewish teaching. She has no problem with Gentiles believing as Gentiles wish, and she has no problem with Jews believing differently, according to their own covenant with God.

Who else are you demanding believe as you do? Who else are you demanding break their covenant?

Christ is both human and divine. This is God's teaching. A Christian simply believes it:

John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

 

[SaxonJackson]

Again, Christian belief. It was not Gnostic belief, and it is not Jewish belief. Christians believe God is One--One consisting of Creator, Word, and Spirit.

Exactly. And to deny that Christ is divine is to deny Christ. According to Christ, if a person is not with Him then they're against him. "Against" means "anti." Easy peasy.

 

[shimon]

It was misdirection, not educating. In Biblical times (as you probably know), anointing a guest's feet after washing them was a sign of honor and humility. When Jesus was invited to supper that night, his hosts (for whatever reason) did not provide water to wash Jesus' feet. A woman in the gospel story noticed this omission and was apparently distressed by it. She washed Jesus' feet with her tears, dried them with her hair, and anointed them with oil, giving him the honor and respect she clearly thought was due.

What I find distressing today is that Jesus was born into Jewish society, culture, and history. He knew the story of his people, as did Matthew and Luke, two of the Gospel writers. While I respect the reason Jews are not familiar with these stories, it is--at the same time--unfortunate. Matthew used Jewish history as a foreshadowing of Jesus' story. Luke used Jesus' life as an overlay of Jewish stories.

Are you familiar with the recent history/discoveries regarding the Shroud of Turin, believed to be the burial cloth of Jesus? I don't know if you are familiar with Barrie Schwortz, a Jew and a scientist, who was a part of these investigations. He was skeptical at first, but later was part of a team verifying the cloth as authentic. (No, he did not convert to Christianity.)

Nice try the gospels were anonymous at the beginning those names of Luke and Mathew were added later at a much later date people should look these things up for themselves and not take my word for it alone what you are doing is known as being an apologist for the facts that Jesus of the gospels was not anointed at all in the proper manner indeed is was opposite quite frankly I expect this of you as you have done this in the past but the ones who read this should look up the info that has been portrayed and draw their own conclusions..

 

[shimon]

Try again. The original author of the story of Jonah did not live in a Christian time. What was the message of the original author to his original audience? In that time, Jews were taught and encouraged to walk the way of God. Jonah was called to walk this way, decided this way was not for him and fled in the opposite direction. His life became stormy and he was swallowed by a great fish into a dark place. He decided God's way might not be so bad after all, and the great fish spat him back into the light of God's way. And, to Jonah's continued dismay, he was to go into a city that was not following the way of God and call them to repent--i.e. change their hearts and walk in the way of God. To Jonah's dismay, they did exactly that.

Could it be Jews have adopted Jonah's dismay when outsiders also try to follow the way of God?

Jews and Christians should never have turned on one another to begin with. Isn't it time we started working on coming together?

I don’t have to try again it is an allegory if the G-d of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the same from beginning to the end then he would know how things would turn out.. The Jewish people spent two millennium after being swallowed whole in the bowels of the big fish( which is Christianity) fully undigested in the waters( nations) of Europe being tormented , persecuted and shuffled off from place to place giving the fish a bad belly ache wherever they went but in the end they were finally spat out whole where the remnants went to Israel and were reserected and reborn from the dead after all Israel is G-d son As per exodus 4 … Everyone in the world is a witness to this event none can deny it that G-d s son hated and reviled non the less has RISEN and is slowly surely taking its place back in its land and is thriving succeeding and despite whatever the nations throw at it( the waves rising and falling one after another he will not be thrown off the land again… Am Israel Chai…... The Nation of Israel lives.. This is the crux of it and there is not a darn thing anyone can do about it hate or love it and no amount of apology can change these facts….

 

[Hafar1014]

Exactly. And to deny that Christ is divine is to deny Christ. According to Christ, if a person is not with Him then they're against him. "Against" means "anti." Easy peasy.

BS I dont believe in the idol Jesus but you can who cares

 

[Meriweather]

Nice try the gospels were anonymous at the beginning those names of Luke and Mathew were added later at a much later date people should look these things up for themselves and not take my word for it alone what you are doing is known as being an apologist for the facts that Jesus of the gospels was not anointed at all in the proper manner indeed is was opposite quite frankly I expect this of you as you have done this in the past but the ones who read this should look up the info that has been portrayed and draw their own conclusions..

Sigh. I've already studied all of that, so old news. I was merely pointing out the Jewish tradition of washing and oiling feet in Jesus' time. As you say, people could look up the tradition of washing and oiling feet in Biblical times.

 

[shimon]

I know well the story of Jonah and the fish, but never considered the allegory you describe. It makes sense.

And you’re correct - neither Christianity or Islam will be able to swallow the Jewish people, and that angers people Carl. I have been the target of Evangelical Christians before, and they will not take NO for an answer. They will harass you for YEARS unless you relent.

Remember originally an Angel was just a mere man with a message…. An evangelist if you look at the word carefully is nothing more then a man with an evil message .. EV( il) Angel.. EV/ ANGEL ist…Their messages are contrary to what is taught and learned in the original scriptures which is the Jewish scriptures which they have changed and tampered and added on too to convey their rotten fruits which are teachings..

 

[Meriweather]

I don’t have to try again it is an allegory if the G-d of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the same from beginning to the end then he would know how things would turn out.. The Jewish people spent two millennium after being swallowed whole in the bowels of the big fish( which is Christianity) fully undigested in the waters( nations) of Europe being tormented , persecuted and shuffled off from place to place giving the fish a bad belly ache wherever they went but in the end they were finally spat out whole where the remnants went to Israel and were reserected and reborn from the dead after all Israel is G-d son As per exodus 4 … Everyone in the world is a witness to this event none can deny it that G-d s son hated and reviled non the less has RISEN and is slowly surely taking its place back in its land and is thriving succeeding and despite whatever the nations throw at it( the waves rising and falling one after another he will not be thrown off the land again… Am Israel Chai…... The Nation of Israel lives.. This is the crux of it and there is not a darn thing anyone can do about it hate or love it and no amount of apology can change these facts….

I have not quarrel if you wish to update the meaning of the allegory. However, the original author of the Jonah story was addressing his own audience as he had something to say to them. That meaning, too, is worth preserving.