Who is the most underrated NBA player in history? My 2 submissions.

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

The conversation has really heated up on who the GOAT is after Lebron tried to say winning isn't that important in deciding who the ******* goat is. That's all I needed to hear.

Oh, and didn't you guys say Jordan was surrounded with more talent?

 

[sealybobo]

The conversation has really heated up on who the GOAT is after Lebron tried to say winning isn't that important in deciding who the ******* goat is. That's all I needed to hear.

Oh, and didn't you guys say Jordan was surrounded with more talent?

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If I find ANYONE saying why Lebron is the GOAT, I'll post it. But I don't see anyone making that argument. I saw this and thought of you

John Paxson on Michael Jordan:
"I’m absolutely sure… if Michael Jordan cared about stats, every record today would have his name on it. He had everything:"
The body.
The mind. Lebron doesn't have
The technique.
The cold-blooded mentality. Lebron doesn't have
The obsession. Lebron doesn't have
The killer instinct. Lebron doesn't have
The heart of a king. Lebron doesn't have
"But MJ didn’t play for numbers.
He didn’t care about individual awards.
He didn’t play for the show.
He only cared about one thing:
WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS." Lebron doesn't have
"For Michael, losing wasn’t part of the game — it was a humiliation. Lebron doesn't have
A wound to the soul. Lebron doesn't have
A personal offense he couldn’t accept. Lebron doesn't have
That’s why he was the most feared, the most lethal, the most untamable.

 

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

LeBron has chased rings for YEARS..but now that he realizes his quest to catch Jordan is coming to an end, he now realizes he will never measure up to him and is making excuses for it.

When LeBron and the cavs beat the '16 Warriors, he thought that made him the goat. It wasn't his all time points, it wasn't his all NBA selections, it was winning a championship and beating that warriors team... it was a TEAM accomplishment that he thought put him over the top...
Now he is back tracking to try and save face
When LeBron went to Miami he promised CHAMPIONSHIPS not STATS
Mj from about year 3 was the best player in the league and many players and coaches acknowledged that...
This is why I always look at you Brontards as some of the dumbest humans on earth... you lack logical reasoning capabilities

 

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

LeBron had no era
How can you claim an era when you

• got swept 3 times in the Finals
• went 1-2 vs Tim Duncan in your era
• went 1-2 vs KD in your era
• went 1-3 vs Steph in your era
• switch teams 3x, each time abandoning a 50-win team after being destroyed in the playoffs or Finals, in your era
• recruited and tried to join ALL your rivals, creating 3 super teams and spearheading the most cowardly NBA culture ever observed
• have had 10 coaches and are known to be a coach-killer
• have had 125 players and 1st round picks traded to help you, and have played with 9 of the top 100 ppg players in NBA history, FAR MORE HELP than any athlete in competitive sports history.
• went 4-6 in the Finals
• did all of the above because while being heralded as "living up to the hype," actually fell far short of the hype, failing to meet Kobe Bryant in the Finals while he won and defended titles vs. the teams that broke you and turned you into a quitting cheat
• are in year 22, still treating superstar teammates like trading cards, trying to ride somebody, ANYBODY to another O'Brien and get the stench of being a 4-6 failure off of your resume

LeBron played during the Kobe, Tim, and Steph eras, but just like he never had an NBA home because he quit and betrayed everybody, and never had his own jersey.. he never had his own era. He's a 22-year media hype job that gets exposed more and more every year despite the machine he's build to push and shield him.

 

[Fiero425]

LeBron had no era
How can you claim an era when you

• got swept 3 times in the Finals
• went 1-2 vs Tim Duncan in your era
• went 1-2 vs KD in your era
• went 1-3 vs Steph in your era
• switch teams 3x, each time abandoning a 50-win team after being destroyed in the playoffs or Finals, in your era
• recruited and tried to join ALL your rivals, creating 3 super teams and spearheading the most cowardly NBA culture ever observed
• have had 10 coaches and are known to be a coach-killer
• have had 125 players and 1st round picks traded to help you, and have played with 9 of the top 100 ppg players in NBA history, FAR MORE HELP than any athlete in competitive sports history.
• went 4-6 in the Finals
• did all of the above because while being heralded as "living up to the hype," actually fell far short of the hype, failing to meet Kobe Bryant in the Finals while he won and defended titles vs. the teams that broke you and turned you into a quitting cheat
• are in year 22, still treating superstar teammates like trading cards, trying to ride somebody, ANYBODY to another O'Brien and get the stench of being a 4-6 failure off of your resume

LeBron played during the Kobe, Tim, and Steph eras, but just like he never had an NBA home because he quit and betrayed everybody, and never had his own jersey.. he never had his own era. He's a 22-year media hype job that gets exposed more and more every year despite the machine he's build to push and shield him.

Preach! From day 1 LbJ was put up there on a pedestal, making out he was some intellectual genius when he barely finished high school! No one said anything when he/his mom started driving around in a new RV before a contract was signed! Normally players & there families are investigated under such conditions as he was a minor w/ adult clout! End Rant! We can go on due to his long career of "mouthing off" & not backing it up.... "not 5, not 6, but 7 NBA Chp.!"

 

[sealybobo]

Diehards out there can't be convinced or even reasoned w/! Weak minded Millenials can only relate to current affairs over history! Unless they see it, it doesn't exist or matter! I go thru the same thing in tennis! Federer & Nadal are thought to be the greatest 2 players of all time even though Novak Djokovic came along & surpassed all their numbers; I MEAN ALL! They have little to hang their hats on besides the "Tennis Intelligentsia" continung to sing their praises! OTOH Federer has 1 more Wimbledon (8) than Novak & Nadal has 14 French Open crowns over Novak's 3! It's almost embarrassing how long the list of accomp. he has over Fedal including 8 YE #1's, 24 Majors, 40 Masters, 7 YEC's, & an Olympic Gold; 73 Big Titles in total! Fedal have been left in the dust of history as far as I'm concerned, but the diehards will die on that hill thinking they're greater no matter the facts, stats, & record!

And don't get me wrong I love Lebron. I think he's great. He was certainly the GOAT of his era. Just like Kobe was his era. But he's no where close to being Jordan. It almost infuriates me to hear people say Lebron is the GOAT. What a pathetic GOAT.

I HATED Jordan. Wanted him to lose so bad. But year after year after year after year after year after year he pissed me off and won. I never got to see him fail because in his prime, he didn't. He OWNED the NBA.

Hell, Jordan was already the best player in the league before he won his first title. Everyone Magic, Bird, The Bad Boys ALL knew Jordan was the best player in the league.

And it wasn't just Jordan being the best player in the league. He made all his teammates better. He was famous for being hard on his teammates. So competitive. HATED to lose. DEMANDED his teammates did their jobs and they didn't want to disappoint him. This is what Lebron is missing. He was just not the leader Jordan was. Didn't have that win at all cost mentality. If he did he'd have at least 6 championships.
I know it's a team sport and you can't win all by yourself but compare Jordan's finals story to Lebron's. Starting with the 2014 finals game one. Remember?

LeBron James cramps up, exits Game 1 of 2014 NBA Finals​

With LeBron unable to play in the final 3:59 because of severe cramps, the Spurs finish on 31-9 run to win the opening game of The Finals.

 

[sealybobo]

Preach! From day 1 LbJ was put up there on a pedestal, making out he was some intellectual genius when he barely finished high school! No one said anything when he/his mom started driving around in a new RV before a contract was signed! Normally players & there families are investigated under such conditions as he was a minor w/ adult clout! End Rant! We can go on due to his long career of "mouthing off" & not backing it up.... "not 5, not 6, but 7 NBA Chp.!"

 

[Unkotare]

 

[hondo 50]

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is dat u?

 

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

 

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

Michael Jordan is the greatest. Here’s why:
• Better Scorer: Jordan averaged the most points ever — 30.1 in the regular season and 33.4 in the playoffs. He also won a record 10 scoring titles.
• Better Defender: He made the All-Defensive First Team 9 times (most ever), won Defensive Player of the Year, led the league in steals 3 times, and has the third-highest steals average in NBA history. He also ranks second all-time in blocks by a guard.
• More Athletic: Jordan had a 48-inch vertical jump, the longest hangtime ever recorded (0.92 seconds), and ran a 4.3-second 40-yard dash.
• More Clutch: He hit the most game-winning shots in NBA history (9), even though he played over 400 fewer games than LeBron.
• More Accomplished: MJ went 119–60 in the playoffs, was 6–0 in the Finals, and won 6 Finals MVPs.
• Never Lost a Title: Jordan never lost in a championship game or series — not in college, the NBA, or international play.
• More Efficient: He had a 27.91 PER (Player Efficiency Rating), which was the best ever when he retired — and he’s still the only guard in the top 10.
• Stronger Leader: Jordan never forced trades, didn’t get coaches fired, and didn’t need a super team. He played full seasons (even at age 40), never asked teammates to do what he wouldn’t do himself, and led the only team in NBA history to win two separate three-peats. From 1990 to 1998, the Bulls never lost three games in a row.
Longevity doesn’t beat greatness.
There’s only one true G.O.A.T — Michael Jordan.

 

[sealybobo]

I did, I just didn't get sexually aroused like you did.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Jordan or James.

More mean, more determined.

 

[sealybobo]

Jordan or James.

More mean, more determined.

That's my point. Anyone being honest knows that Jordan would have wanted it more. And from Lebron's history of winning it all, it seems to me that Lebron would have only won a championship after Michael retired not whilst playing against him. Or perhaps at Jordan's tail end of his career when he was old playing with Rip Hamilton on the Washington Bullets.

Jordan would have WILLED it.

Lebron accepted defeat too easily. Maybe that's it. In the moments where the game could go either way for either team, we need to analyze how and why so many of Lebron's teams fell short. Watch how Jordan took over and Lebron did not. Lebron kept passing to teammates who were not delivering.

And yes Jordan's teammates stepped up and delivered. They had to. They were afraid of practice the next day if they didn't. Jordan would have laid into them. He insisted on excellence. That's another aspect. Jordan was a better leader and that matters.

This reminds me of my dad saying coaching doesn't matter. If you have the best players you're going to win no matter what. That's such bullshit. He has no clue how important a coach is.

 

[Fiero425]

That's my point. Anyone being honest knows that Jordan would have wanted it more. And from Lebron's history of winning it all, it seems to me that Lebron would have only won a championship after Michael retired not whilst playing against him. Or perhaps at Jordan's tail end of his career when he was old playing with Rip Hamilton on the Washington Bullets.

Jordan would have WILLED it.

Lebron accepted defeat too easily. Maybe that's it. In the moments where the game could go either way for either team, we need to analyze how and why so many of Lebron's teams fell short. Watch how Jordan took over and Lebron did not. Lebron kept passing to teammates who were not delivering.

And yes Jordan's teammates stepped up and delivered. They had to. They were afraid of practice the next day if they didn't. Jordan would have laid into them. He insisted on excellence. That's another aspect. Jordan was a better leader and that matters.

This reminds me of my dad saying coaching doesn't matter. If you have the best players you're going to win no matter what. That's such bullshit. He has no clue how important a coach is.

Evidence the move of Phil Jackson to The LA Lakers! Living in Sacramento at the time, I was no fan of Showtime II w/ Shaq & Kobe! It was highly amusing how they were touted as being the best thru the late 90's into 2000, but continued to be eliminated early by other teams in embarassing fashion as Shaq & Kobe tore the team up w/ their infighting & egos! Jackson showed up & whipped them into a real team, defeating my Kings w/ dubious calls by officials & sabotage of Stern changing the playoff format (BO5 to BO7) shortly beforehand due to Lakers being 8th seed! They had to go against my Kings & they obviously still needed the help from outside! Jackson got his 2nd "Three-Peat" & a couple more champ. w/ Kobe before semi-retiring behind the scenes, then his move to NY as their new GM! OTTH, IIRC!

 

[mikegriffith1]

Nate Thurmond.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Kevin McHale...over shadowed (deservedly so by the way!) by Larry Bird but probably the most skilled low post player ever. Virtually unstoppable on the low post and a great defender. Charles Barkley said that McHale gave him more trouble than any other player he competed against.

 

[Man With A Plan]

No they wouldn't. They were too small, too slow and too weak. They would get run off the court. It's truly amazing how nostalgia clouds people's perspective.

I beg to differ, Couch...I saw Dr. J in his prime...he was a freak of nature. Could jump out of the gym and made it look effortless.