presonorek
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So you could easily disqualify someone that doesn’t meet this criteria. Then where does one turn for verification?
Zone1 Who has (does not have) eternal life?
- Thread starter presonorek
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So you could easily disqualify someone that doesn’t meet this criteria. Then where does one turn for verification?
presonorek
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- #22
Can you do all of these things for 10 years and then stop? or does stopping make them unsaved? or does one never stop because they are saved?
The logic is lacking. If someone does all of these things for 10 years and then stops then they were A never saved or B being saved did nothing. Therefore seeking salvation again would be a waste because either it doesn’t work or it doesn’t work.
"For it is impossible, in the case of those who were once enlightened (came to the knowledge of the truth -- 1 Tim. 2:4, God would have no soul lost and wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth), those who have tasted the heavenly gift (truth) and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come AND THEN HAVE FALLEN AWAY, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying again the Son of God to their own harm and holding Him up to contempt." -- Hebrews 6:4-6.
Conclusion: You can fall from grace because you desire/love the world and the things in the world more than you Love the Lord......how do you fall from grace? You lose your faith/belief. That is the only thing that can make you fall from grace. Only you know what you actually believe in your heart and what you refuse to believe.........again, YOU and OUR LORD know what's in your heart. If you fall once from grace........you are doomed, why? You have fallen away from your faith, you demonstrate CONTEMPT with the very act that you once found useless. You can be baptized so many times that you can know the fish by name........its useless if you have no faith in the act you are preforming. You have been marked by the god of this world as his disciple (2 Cor. 4:4)
Again........so simple, no Gotcha's with the Holy Spirit of Truth. There is only one sin that God cannot remit............the unrepentant sin. As long as life exists there is hope, once your spirit leaves your flesh, its game over, directly to hades you go to await the final judgment. (Luke 16) There is no hope once your spirit is in Hades, the resting place of the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, with the 2 separated by a great void. The righteous go to Paradise (like the thief on the cross.......the unrighteous go a place of torment to await the final judgement and there is no communication possible between the dead and the living. Those in Hades will be judged when Hades gives up its Dead -- Rev. 20:13-14
1. There is no salvation possible without FAITH (ALL MEN SIN, NONE ARE WORTHY OF SALVATION on their own merits -- Romans 3:10-19, 23, .......only you and God know the truth as to the condition of your eternal soul (1 Cor. 2:6). You know (its personal) how you have been living....you and the Lord know. You can hide/deceive your fellow man but you can't hide from the Omnipresence and Omniscience of the Lord. You must WALK IN THE LIGHT OF THE LORD and ALLOW THE TRUTH TO GUIDE YOU ...what truth? The Holy Spirit of Truth, accessed today in the Perfect Law of Liberty, (which provides everything required that pertains to live and godilness (2 Peter 1:3) the completed works of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim. 3:16-17)...there is no darkness in the Lord (1 John 1:5-10)
2 Is it possible to fall from Grace? Of course, just ask the Apostle Paul who lived in fear of falling from Grace after having dedicated his life to the kingdom/church of Christ. There are examples in the Holy Scriptures to demonstrate this reality. It all comes down to LOVE.........who do you love more.........the Lord our savior or the World with its god Satan (2 Cor. 4:4)? "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him........." -- 1 John 2:15-17. The point being........all things of the flesh and the world will fade away and decay and be lost to eternity........but the Love of the Lord will last forever and provide eternal life..........OF THE SPIRIT.
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BreezeWood
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both physical physiology and its spiritual content are metaphysical, an end to the physiology is natural - you may not be happy w/ what you ask for to end your spiritual existence.
Woodznutz
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A few are saved now (spring harvest; most won't know until later
(fall harvest).
kjw47
Gold Member
99% on earth live in darkness. Jesus compared these last days( Luke 17:26) to Noahs day( 99.9% mislead)--One uses a real translation of the bible. One with Gods name back in the over 7000 places he willed it because he wants it there. The wicked removed it by satans will to mislead. And it has accomplished that. The New world translation put Gods name back-condemned by the ones in darkness using the altered translations.
Matthew 24:15 declares that the "abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel) would take place in the lifetime His apostles..........not one stone would be left standing in the temple. Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples in the 1st century......not to some imagined future peoples, when He declared, "When YOU (the apostles) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, SPOKEN OF BY THE PROPHET DANIEL......" Why did they ask Jesus about the destruction of the temple? Jesus began speaking to them of things that would shortly take place .........such as the destruction of the Temple (Matthew 24:2). When would these things take place? The preceding chapter (Matthew 23).....leading up to chapter 24 declares, ".........Verily, I say unto you (the Jewish leaders...whom Jesus had just charged with the murder of God's prophets), ALL THESE THINGS SHALL COME UPON THIS GENERATION." -- Matt. 24:36 God would pass judgment on Israel and allow Rome to destroy biblical Israel and scatter the tribes around the world, never to be made whole again, as promised in the O.T. if Israel continued walking contrary to the righteous laws of the Lord (Lev.26:37-39, Deut. 4:25-28, 8:19-20...they would cease being a nation, like a broken potters jar......Isarel might be pieced back together like a puzzle but it would never be whole again (Jer. 19:7-13). When this punishment comes upon Israel........a new Covenant would be established (Jer. 31:31-34).
Peter, the Apostle who had been given the keys to the kingdom of God/Heaven....i.e, the church the Father (God) gave to Jesus (Matt. 16:18-19, Matthew 28:18-20...which stated very clearly that anyone wishing to enter the kingdom must be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost) ........Peter declared (when he decided to use the keys to the kingdom on the 1st Pentecost day after the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus) that the LAST DAYS began on the day of Pentecost after the ascension of Jesus (in the clouds, in the company of angels -- Acts 1:9-12)
The beginning of the Last Days of Mankind........i.e, the last covenant between man and God is recorded in the book of Acts written by the physician Luke. "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the LAST DAYS......" Acts 2:16-17.
How do we know this was the beginning of the last covenant, i.e, the last days of mankind? The scriptures record the fact that the Kingdom of Heaven...the church in which Jesus was the chief cornerstone (Eph. 2:19-22). On Pentecost day Peter declared "...the prophet and king of Israel, David, said, "God will rise up the Christ to sit on his throne (Acts 2:30)....let the entire world know, that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord (ruler/king) and Christ (Savior....He who was given the authority to remit sin.....as demonstrated in Matthew 9:6). -- Acts 2:36
Even while Jesus was active in His earthly ministry (which lasted but 3.5 years).....Both He and John the Baptist declared that the kingdom of Heaven/God...i.e, the church would be shortly established .........the kingdom is AT HAND. "...........the time is fulfilled (meaning the O.T. prophecies were being fulfilled in the 1st century...the time frame that the prophet Daniel spoke of was at hand) and the kingdom of God is at hand." -- Mark 1:14-15. In fact Mark records the fact that this coming kingdom would happen in that very generation.....as some standing there hearing the Christ preach of the kingdom, would not taste of death until they witnessed the kingdom come with power. (Mark 9:1)
To further prove the truth that the kingdom....the last days covenant between man and God......has existed since the 1st century, the following is recorded and I defy anyone to prove different via presenting the book, chapter and verse that declares different. What is this proof? All chapters and verses of the N.T. recorded previous to Acts 2.......always speak of the kingdom/church as yet to come (meaning it was not here yet)...but was to come in the near future.....FUTURE TENSE (Mark 9:1).........all such chapters and verses after Act 2 speak of the kingdom in the present tense.....the kingdom is no longer being awaited, but it has arrived. Anyone? present the book, chapter and verse after Peter's 1st gospel sermon that opened the doors to the kingdom of God, because Peter had the keys.....again, ANYONE provide the book, chapter and verse that uses FUTURE TENSE when speaking of the kingdom of God/Heaven....the church given to Jesus Christ by the Father, after the 1st Pentecost day after the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ Jesus.
Examples of using the present tense when addressing the kingdom of God in the 1st century: People where being translated into the kingdom of God at that time (Col. 1:13). The Apostle speaks of the kingdom as existing "..........in THIS AGE (the 1st century) and the ages to come (Eph. 1:20-23).
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kjw47
Gold Member
The kingdom was established at Rev 6:1-2= the war in heaven. Both matters explained at Rev 12=the birth of Gods kingdom in heaven.
The prophecy in Daniel points to the exact time- 2520 days= years from the destruction of Jerusalem and removal of the last king, when the next king= Jesus Gods appointed king would sit on the throne. 607bce when Jerusalem was destroyed and had a king. thus 607 + 2520= 1914 when Rev 6 occurs-Rev 6:4-peace will be taken from the earth=1914 ww1. That is how C.T.Russell could say in 1879-peace will be taken from the earth in 1914, because of that prophecy. Only he had it revealed through him.
Yet so many try to impose their terrestrial translation of things celestial ......~S~
So the N.T. record is lying when Jesus declared that Peter held the keys to His Kingdom/Church in Matthew 16? And the N.T. further lies when Jesus declared that of those hearing Him preach of the coming Kingdom some would not taste of death until they witnessed the Kingdom come with power (Mark 9:1)? And the power of the kingdom of God was not displayed on Pentecost day as recorded in Acts 2? What? are YOU suggesting as truthful doctrine there are 2000 year old men walking the earth today?
FYI............you misrepresent the book of Revelation once again......the book was recorded by John to give hope to the struggling infant church.........during that time period, as the book is recording symbolic events that are to ".........shortly take place.""The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew His servants........THINGS THAT MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS." -- Rev. 1:1 These events are not written to some future people in the far off future......they are written to the churches of Christ in the first century........"THE TIME IS AT HAND (in the late first century). John to the 7 churches which are in Asia (the scriptures make it clear there are more than 7 congregations of Christians at that time.....thus 7 is a symbolic term that means, WHOLE or COMPLETE as 7 always represents perfection or completeness)" -- Rev. 1:3-4
The proof is simple. Just show us ONE SINGLE verse in the New Testament that speaks of the Kingdom of God.......the church Christ constructed as the chief cornerstone (A spiritual kingdom -- John 18:36, with His sacrificial death....as coming at some point in the future after ACTS 2 was recorded. Unlike you, I do not require anyone else (like some puffed up pop'n jay) giving me their personal interpretation of what the scriptures are declaring..........I allow the scriptures to speak for themselves, as private interpretation is forbidden (2 Peter 1:20) All mentions of the kingdom/church are written in present tense, not future tense after Peter established doctrine for the infant kingdom in Acts 2. If not.........SHOW ME the book, chapter and verse that declares different.
Again just show me this single verse that takes place after Acts 2 that describes the kingdom as coming in the FUTURE TENSE. You will not because such a passage does not exist.
The kingdom spoken of in Revelation is Spiritual Jerusalem, a kingdom where the Christ sets in rule on David's throne. The kingdom of God exists on earth in the same manner.........the kingdom is not visible, its a Spiritual Kingdom that resides in the heart of all those who have come to the knowledge of the truth.......Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom not a literal kingdom with earthly rulers. (Luke 17:21)......those who are not of the TRUTH, can't comprehend the kingdom of God and its power of salvation. Jesus Himself declared the Kingdom was not of this earth (John 18:36) Jesus further declared that He was born and come to earth as God incarnate to deliver truth from heaven.......only those who hear His voice are OF THE TRUTH. (John 18:37)
I declare that you are living a life based upon deceit as an antichrist, as defined by scriptures in 1 John and 2 John.....you are of your father, the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). And the sad part? You do not even realize it.
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kjw47
Gold Member
You twisting what is said. Peter a member of the little flock-guaranteed to sit on a throne in heaven beside Jesus, being apart of the 144,000 anointed bride=little flock.So the N.T. record is lying when Jesus declared that Peter held the keys to His Kingdom/Church in Matthew 16? And the N.T. further lies when Jesus declared that of those hearing Him preach of the coming Kingdom some would not taste of death until they witnessed the Kingdom come with power (Mark 9:1)? And the power of the kingdom of God was not displayed on Pentecost day as recorded in Acts 2? What? are YOU suggesting as truthful doctrine there are 2000 year old men walking the earth today?
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew His servants........THINGS THAT MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS." -- Rev. 1:1 These events are not written to some future people in the far off future......they are written to the churches of Christ in the first century........"THE TIME IS AT HAND (in the late first century). John to the 7 churches which are in Asia (the scriptures make it clear there are more than 7 congregations of Christians at that time.....thus 7 is a symbolic term that means, WHOLE or COMPLETE as 7 always represents perfection or completeness)" -- Rev. 1:3-4
The proof is simple. Just show us ONE SINGLE verse in the New Testament that speaks of the Kingdom of God.......the church Christ constructed as the chief cornerstone (A spiritual kingdom -- John 18:36, with His sacrificial death....as coming at some point in the future after ACTS 2 was recorded. Unlike you, I do not require anyone else (like some puffed up pop'n jay) giving me their personal interpretation of what the scriptures are declaring..........I allow the scriptures to speak for themselves, as private interpretation is forbidden (2 Peter 1:20) All mentions of the kingdom/church are written in present tense, not future tense after Peter established doctrine for the infant kingdom in Acts 2. If not.........SHOW ME the book, chapter and verse that declares different.
Again just show me this single verse that takes place after Acts 2 that describes the kingdom as coming in the FUTURE TENSE. You will not because such a passage does not exist.
The kingdom spoken of in Revelation is Spiritual Jerusalem, a kingdom where the Christ sets in rule on David's throne. The kingdom of God exists on earth in the same manner.........the kingdom is not visible, its a Spiritual Kingdom that resides in the heart of all those who have come to the knowledge of the truth.......Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom not a literal kingdom with earthly rulers. (Luke 17:21)......those who are not of the TRUTH, can't comprehend the kingdom of God and its power of salvation. Jesus Himself declared the Kingdom was not of this earth (John 18:36) Jesus further declared that He was born and come to earth as God incarnate to deliver truth from heaven.......only those who hear His voice are OF THE TRUTH. (John 18:37)
I declare that you are living a life based upon deceit as an antichrist, as defined by scriptures in 1 John and 2 John.....you are of your father, the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). And the sad part? You do not even realize it.
Jesus as well taught--Some of you standing here will never taste death---but every one of them died and tasted death. Jesus wasn't saying that to them personally, But was referring to those as being true followers. And the ones brought through the tribulation and Armageddon into Gods kingdom are the actual ones who may never taste death.
Its easy to twist what is actually being said.
Did you ever consider it's not a mystery to be solved but a journey/relationship to be entered into?
You might be so clever that you end up out smarting yourself.
presonorek
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- #34
I’m actually pretty dumb. You know how to verify this stuff. I don’t.
You are over thinking it. Why wouldn't you want a belief system that helps makes sense of the storms of life? Do you really need for God to hold your hand and walk you through it? Or can't you put on your God hat and figure out for yourself how God would respond to your clever arguments?
BreezeWood
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no how what response there might be than ones own to be judged when completed.
lets hope that's the call to abandon the phony desert religions their bibles to ever bring to fruition heaven on earth ...
presonorek
Gold Member
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- #37
If I was in charge of a nonprofit organization I would want everyone to know who the members were and how to join. Is there a reason you think God would be different?
Yes. Now put on your God hat and figure out why. But make sure to be conscientious and thoughtful in your response.
In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints one can reach the status of having his calling and election made sure. This means that you can reach a point in life where you are sealed up unto eternal life. Most people in the church have not been sealed to eternal life. But the most faithful and true who diligently follow after Christ and sacrifice most all evil can, through the priesthood of God, be sealed up unto eternal life by having their calling and election made sure.
2 Peter 1:4–11
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
When one makes his calling and election sure, he is sealed up unto eternal life. Eternal life is to have an eternal existence like God himself. It is not simply immortality. All mankind will gain immortality. It is a gift of God. But those who learn to become perfect, even as God is perfect and become one with him, will gain eternal life. They will live with God eternally and will become like Him.
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
2 Peter 1:19
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day dstar arise in your hearts:
Calling and Election
- See also Election
- Ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, Ex. 19:5–6 (Rev. 1:6).
- God hath from the beginning chosen the elect for salvation, 2 Thes. 2:13.
- Give diligence to make your calling and election sure, 2 Pet. 1:10.
- The Lord may seal you his, Mosiah 5:15.
- I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life, Mosiah 26:20.
- Faithful priesthood holders become the church and kingdom and the elect of God, D&C 84:33–34.
- The more sure word of prophecy means knowing that one is sealed up unto eternal life, D&C 131:5–6.
- I seal upon you your exaltation, D&C 132:49.
2 Peter 1:4–11
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
When one makes his calling and election sure, he is sealed up unto eternal life. Eternal life is to have an eternal existence like God himself. It is not simply immortality. All mankind will gain immortality. It is a gift of God. But those who learn to become perfect, even as God is perfect and become one with him, will gain eternal life. They will live with God eternally and will become like Him.
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
2 Peter 1:19
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day dstar arise in your hearts:
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BreezeWood
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sorry, not most but unequivocally all to sin never again. purity is required for immortality.
to free ones spirit is clearly made possible by the heavenly mandate given a&e when sent on their journey - the triumph of good vs evil - for judgement when accomplished for admission to the everlasting ...
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