Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarifying Misconceptions
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The Treaty of Lausanne is a good historical document, and a good legal reference; as long as you interpret it correctly.

If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.

(COMMENT)
.
We don't need a separate discussion. This misinterpretation (and in some cases - misinformation) of critical historical documents go directly into the heart of the question: Who Are The Palestinians?

But the Treaty of Lausanne is NOT the central theme it once was a century ago. You may not realize it, but most of the members of the UN are NOT signatories Treaty of Lausanne. And in the immediate regional sector under discussion, none of the Arab League members were signatories to the Treaty when they jumped their borders and entered the fray now called the "Arab-Israeli Conflict."

The 1925 Citizenship Order, once again, applied only to the territory under the British Mandate. It was created by HM Government for British Mandate. Part I of that Order sets the criteria. Read it carefully.

BUT, since the creation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR), the perceived inequities and limitations of that British 1925 Order have been largely corrected.
.

The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.

(COMMENT)
.
Your understanding of Section II Nationality • Article 30 • Treaty of Lausanne is off-center. Article 30 essentially says that no matter what the government is called, the habitual residents' pickup that nationality.

This is largely overtaken by Article 12 • CCPR:

Article 12

1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. ​

​

2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own. ​

​

3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant. ​

​

4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.​

Article 12(3) puts a big dent in who may have the CCPR to enter.

Excerpt:

"shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order (ordre public), public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others,"​

You can bet that the various photos and videos accumulated from all those demonstrations → will have the photo-recognition software working overtime to justify exercising this exemption. And believe me when I say, the Israeli Security Services have the technology to capture all those al-Jazeera video clips and the Youtube sources materials (not to mention all those) propaganda press shots of all those Peaceful Arab-Palestinians that tried to overrun the border security barriers or those that sent incendiary devices towards Israeli Civilian Targets.

We will see who can present an effective and compelling presentation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The 1925 Citizenship Order, once again, applied only to the territory under the British Mandate. It was created by HM Government for British Mandate. Part I of that Order sets the criteria. Read it carefully.

1. (1) Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925. shall become Palestinian citizens.

---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”

So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?
--------------------
Also:

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92

 

[rylah]

---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:



So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?
--------------------
Also:

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

Seriously,
you can't even quote without deception.
Why did you leave out the part about the C, B class mandates?

This need to constantly manipulate and misquote,
reveal that even you don't believe the case has any standing whatsoever.

 

[rylah]

BTW why does it take only 2 years of residence,
to be defined as a "Palestinian" and legit for UNRWA welfare.

Is that what you call a "native",
or a half baked fraud?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarifying Misconceptions
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne has not real play in the question, except to assign "nationality" left in the wake for the Post-War situation.

So you have a state, territory, and citizens. Where do you see a disagreement?

(COMMENT)

Local Law = Domestic Legislation

National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory under the Mandate for Palestine. That territory was, in 1925, a legal entity administered by the High Commissioner and a Council consisting exclusively of British officials. "Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government." There was no state - no state - under the Arab Palestinian legislation. There was no self-governing institutions by the Arab Palestinians. ​

The Treaty of Lausanne said (in an excerpt):

"Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."​

​

There was no technical transfer. But the Treaty did not actually preclude that.​

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

(COMMENT)

Yes, I've read Para's 50 - thru - 55 of the Home • Numéros 21 • Articles: Genesis of Citizenship in Palesti...
And again → that still applied to: "inhabitants of mandated territories," ie The Government Administered by the UK.
And once again it applies to "nationality" relative to the territory subject to the Mandate.

Remember, the Memorandum → The Legal Meaning of → "The Termination of the Mandate"

After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity
but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately
self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will,
however, have changed.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

One side comes across as tolerant and liberal. The other is intolerant and antisemitic.

The international community is solidly on the side of the antisemite.

Egypt condemned Jews visiting the Temple Mount. So did the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. So did Turkey and Jordan.

The EU tweeted, "Concerned over ongoing tensions around the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount. Acts of incitement have to be avoided and the status quo respected. Israeli authorities, religious, and community leaders from all sides should act urgently to calm down this explosive situation."

When they say "status quo" they mean Jews shouldn't be allowed to visit their most sacred place. The US has said similar things.

Which means that antisemitism is the official policy of most of the world, and Israel defending the human rights of Jews is twisted into saying Israeli Jews are the bigots.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas condemns Jewish right to worship. The international community pretty much agrees with this antisemitism.

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Hollie]

The islamic terrorists believe they have a method to use their donated welfare money to pay their killers.

PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because itâs âtheir rightâ | PMW Analysis

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments

www.palwatch.org

PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right”
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Jul 19, 2021
Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”

At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:

 

[P F Tinmore]

National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory under the Mandate for Palestine.

The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The islamic terrorists believe they have a method to use their donated welfare money to pay their killers.

PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because itâs âtheir rightâ | PMW Analysis

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments

www.palwatch.org

PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because it’s “their right”
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Jul 19, 2021
Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”

At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:

All that name calling. PMW must be an Israeli propaganda organization.

 

[P F Tinmore]

the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."

Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments. Inaugurating the new system, which uses specifically designated ATM cards and machines, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr, explained why the PA will never stop paying the terror rewards to prisoners and their families: Because it’s “their right.”

At a press conference launching the new system, the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr explained:

(full article online)

PA inaugurates new method to pay cash rewards to terrorists - because itâs âtheir rightâ | PMW Analysis

Since the commercial banks that operate in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority closed 35,000 bank accounts of terrorists and their families, the PA has been desperately looking for a new mechanism to continue its “Pay-for-Slay” payments

palwatch.org

 

[Hollie]

All that name calling. PMW must be an Israeli propaganda organization.

All that sidestepping accomplishes what?

The details are that rewards for islamic killers, payments for acts of Islamic terrorism are normalized by the Pally government. The details are such that the Pallys take extraordinary measures to divert welfare money to pay those killers.

In the relevant first world, paying someone to commit a crime is itself a crime, except in the alternate reality of Pal-Arabism.

You wish to excuse islamic terrorism and criminal acts with your cut and paste "name calling" slogan.

 

[Hollie]

Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?

When were subjects of the Ottoman Empire "citizens" of Pal'istan?

You do know that the Ottoman Turks never established any unique, administrative district of Pal'istan, right?

Your need to invent some imagined "Magical Kingdom of Pal'istan", ignores the fact that no such place ever existed.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Miscellaneous
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think you need a second reading.

The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Well I did not contradict your thought here. I'll expand the symbol. It means "not equal to."

National of a State ≠ Habitual inhabitants of the Territory. The legal status of "Palestine" was a "legal entity."

Are the "parties concerned" the foreigners or the citizens?

(COMMENT)

Well, think about it.

(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force; (Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties)

The Lausanne Treaty was signed on 24 July 1923 by the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and the "Serbo-Croat-Slovene" State on one part and Turkey on the other. These are the "parties" to the treaty.

ANSWER: So, yes! I guess they all represent "foreign" powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

For anyone not familiar with the Tamimi crime family, it was a member of that family who was arrested, tried and jailed for her part in the Sbarro pizzeria bombing.

I have alway hoped that the US would dispatch one of our SOCOM teams to Jordan and pull her off the streets to face infidel justice.





At his meeting with Jordanian King Abdullah II next Monday, President Joe Biden must demand the extradition of a most wanted terrorist, Ahlam Tamimi.

Tamimi was behind the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing in Jerusalem, Israel. That terrorist attack killed 15 civilians, including two Americans, and injured approximately 122 others, including four Americans. In 2017, the United States unsealed its indictment of Tamimi. The government has offered a $5 million reward for information leading to her apprehension or conviction.

Biden must push Jordan to extradite wanted terrorist - Washington Examiner

At his meeting with Jordanian King Abdullah II next Monday, President Joe Biden must demand the extradition of a most wanted terrorist, Ahlam Tamimi.Tamimi was behind the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing in Jerusalem, Israel. That terrorist attack killed 15 civilians, including two Americans, and...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Palestinian Authority arrested a Palestinian singer for performing in an Israeli park in Samaria.

The Jerusalem Post reported on Monday that the musician, whose name has not been disclosed, performed at a party for Palestinian employees at an Israeli factory in the Ariel Industrial Zone.

A source told the Jerusalem Post that the party was organized by the factory’s owners, but was not attended by any of the Jewish employees. The report didn’t indicate when the party was held, when the singer was detained, or the name of the factory. But the singer was said to be from the nearby Palestinian village of Kafr ad-Dik.

(full article online)

Palestinian Authority Arrests Singer for ‘Crime’ of Performing in Israeli City | United with Israel

A PA politician accused the Palestinian singer of performing in front of 'settlers and prostitutes' in response to a concert attended by Arabs in the Israeli city of Ariel.

unitedwithisrael.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Nearly 100,000 Muslims arrived Tuesday morning at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to pray at Al Aqsa Mosque.

Tuesday marks the first day of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha.

Some of the worshipers chanted calls against Israel, adding, "We will sacrifice our lives for the sake of Al Aqsa."

(full article online)

100,000 Muslims promise to give their lives for Al Aqsa

Muslims arriving at Temple Mount to mark Eid al-Adha chant anti-Israel slogans, promise to 'sacrifice their lives' for Al Aqsa Mosque.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[Hollie]

The Mandate was a temporarily appointed administration It was not a place, It had no territory, borders, or sovereignty. It had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine.

The British Mandate for Palestine "had nothing to do with the legal status of Palestine."

Now that's pretty darn funny.

 

[Sixties Fan]

As I have previously reported, Arabs sold two properties to Jews in the past few weeks.

Now one of the sellers is in danger.

Palestinian Media Watchreports:

The PA has publicly exposed, shamed, and literally endangered the life of an Arab who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem. According to the PA, Palestinians who sell land to Jews are considered “traitors” and criminals. In fact, the PA has forbidden selling land to Jews by law. Anyone who tries to sell land to Jews will be sentenced to 5 years of hard labor, and someone who actually sells land to Jews will be sentenced to life in prison with hard labor, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch.

It isn't only Fatah. Atout's picture and condemnation of him is all over Palestinian media.

Here's video of his family leaving their home.

And his photo is all over the place.

The point is clear: if you find Atout, take justice into your own hands.

Needless to say, no one ever says that the prohibition of selling land to Jews is pure antisemitism.

(full article online)

Palestinian media trying to get people to lynch man who sold his house to Jews

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

Fatah publicly exposed, shamed and endangered an Arab âtraitorâ who sold land to Jews in Jerusalem | PMW Analysis

Seller’s picture was broadcast on Fatah’s TV station: “because these images and this information are important for our people, so that they will see this traitor.”

palwatch.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Those who have been pitching the “new and improved” Ra’am Party to the Israeli public as a moderate faction promoting a civil agenda, now that it is a member of Israel's governing coalition for the first time in Israel's history, had something of a rude awakening on Sunday, courtesy of the “old” Islamist Ra’am.

Its warning against “settlers and MKs violating the Al-Aqsa mosque” was taken right out of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s playbook. Similar statements were made by the Gaza-based terrorist group as part of its ultimatums to Israel prior to the 11 days of fighting that erupted in May.

Its statement, echoed by the Southern Branch of the Islamic Movement from which it hails, adopted the menacing terminology used by Hamas with regard to the Temple Mount.

(full article online)

Ra’am party shows its true colors

The Islamist party is trying to have it both ways by working to better Israeli Arabs’ lives while also embracing Hamas-style radicalism.Op-ed.

www.israelnationalnews.com