Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Naming Convention
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Denying the definition of "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" is just as wrong as denying the name of "Palestinians." We call them "terrorist" because that is what they are by definition. [Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)]

View attachment 512985

View attachment 512983
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Shocking!

Who knew Islamic terrorists were financed by the UN?
A newly released report by the Israeli right-wing watchdog group Im Tirtzu divulged that the United Nations has allegedly funneled millions to radical Palestinian groups that are linked to terrorist organizations and the BDS anti-Israel movement.

The report found that between 2016 to 2020, the UN contributed at least $40 million to 19 Palestinian NGOs, nearly all of which support BDS and almost half have ties to Hamas or the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terror groups, an Im Tirtzu press release announced on Tuesday.

They do not use our name calling list.

(COMMENT)

Yes: "Name-calling, typical used by children is the act of applying a negative term or label to describe a person or their actions."
But when an adult uses the term "name-calling" while participating in a mature discussion group → it is a backhanded ad Hominen. It is a fallacy in the family of "Red Herrings."

◈ Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.​

​

✦ Poisoning the well – a subtype of ad hominem presenting adverse information about a target person with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says.​

I assume your level of education meets or exceeds mine. I also assume you want to participate in the discussion in a mature and honest fashion.

(ADDITIONALLY)

By denying that the Arab Palestinian hostile actions are "terrorists" - you are saying that the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is something other than "criminals" directing hostile acts against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to →

◈ Cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or ​

◈ Against persons not taking an active part in the hostilities, ​

◈ To intimidate a population​

◈ To compel some act that furthers the criminal objective.​

Beyond that context, I assume you know that any HoAP who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power or damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or imprisonment, appropriate to the offence committed.

The HoAP are observed engaging repeatedly in criminal and antisocial behavior without remorse or empathy for those victimized or acting in a morally irresponsible fashion.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestinians do not operate outside their own borders and only attack illegal colonial settlers.

Is that terrorism?

Link?

Yes, Palestinian terrorism is terrorism.

No link?

Definition of TERRORISM

the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Where does it mention the Palestinians?

Link?

Palestinian terrorism isn't terrorism? Link?

 

[Hollie]

35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza

www.timesofisrael.com

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza​

The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza

www.timesofisrael.com

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza​

The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.

The OAS is a US run organization,

 

[Hollie]

35-country pan-American group designates Hamas a terrorist organization

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza

www.timesofisrael.com

Organization of American States says rocket fire at Israeli civilians leaves no doubt as to the terrorist nature of Palestinian group ruling Gaza​

The Organization of American States, an international coalition of 35 countries in North and South America, has designated Hamas a terrorist organization amid Israel’s worst bout of fighting with the group in years.

The OAS is a US run organization,

You have a conspiracy theory you would like to float?

 

[Sixties Fan]

There is a grain of truth in this announcement. The Israeli Buza ice cream shop chain announced that their own internal testing had identified a small amount of listeria.

They have four shops, two in Tel Aviv and two in the north. They apparently provide ice cream for other shops but they do not sell their ice cream in commercial packaging.

Buza ice cream would never have been carried in Palestinian stores.

In a normal consumer announcement, the government would specify the brand, the lot numbers, the expiration dates, and tell consumers to discard anything they already bought. The ministry is doing none of that.

The ministry is using a real story to try to get Palestinians to think that all Israeli ice cream brands are dangerous.

Incidentally, Buza is co-owned by an Israeli Jew and an Israeli Arab (h/t iTi)

(full article online)

Palestinian officials claim Israeli ice cream will cause miscarriages

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Hollie]

It’s been decades of propping up a corrupt UN agency provided with the funds to maintain a perpetual endowment for the exclusive use of invented “refugees”, the vast majority of that original group no longer alive. This group provides a continuous stream of sociopathic monsters and this welfare madness goes on.

The problem with foreign aid for Gaza

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.

m.jpost.com

If the international community truly wants to aid Gaza residents, purging Hamas’s influence and completely restructuring UNRWA would be far more effective than money or concrete.​

​

 

[Sixties Fan]

Britain has donated no less than £473,038,638.64 ($632,443,199) to various Palestinian causes in the last five years alone [UK Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office website], and will continue in 2021. In an ironic expression of gratitude, a group of Palestinians submitted a lawsuit to the Palestinian Authority court system against Britain for issuing the Balfour Declaration and for alleged “crimes” of British soldiers against the Palestinian people during the Mandate period.

While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:

-----
At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.

As Israel’s Prime Minister, Golda Meir once explained, “I am a Palestinian. From [19]21 to [19]48 I held a [British] Palestinian passport.”

(full article online)

Palestinians sue Britain - as thanks for over half a billion dollars in aid | PMW Analysis

Palestinians rewrite history and sue Great Britain demanding it confess that the Balfour Declaration “destroyed the life of an entire Palestinian people.”

palwatch.org

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

BLUF: This particular "Thread" (question under discussion) asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.

Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.

​

While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:

-----
At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.

.
(QUESTION)

When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?

Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship." Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"

Most Respectfully,
R



.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

BLUF: This particular "Thread" (question under discussion) asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.

Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.

View attachment 514049
​

While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:

-----
At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.

.
(QUESTION)

When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?

Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship." Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"

Most Respectfully,
R



.

Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"

It was a part of international law and reiterated in the Treaty of Lausanne and the Palestine Citizenship order of 1925.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is a convoluted answer. It certainly does not answer the question.

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

BLUF: This particular "Thread" (question under discussion) asks a question that I don't know has a codified answer.

Most of the individual independent nations of the world, throughout the eleven generalized geographic regions, have legal domestic criteria was that define what makes a citizen of what independent nation.

​

While the lawsuit, which was submitted to a PA court, was initiated by ostensibly private individuals, its narrative entirely adopts the narrative of the PA: That the Balfour Declaration is the cause of Palestinian suffering:

-----
At the time, British Mandate Palestine was comprised of Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs (there was as yet no Palestinian Arab national identity), and spanned from Israel's coast through all the territory that is today Jordan.

.
(QUESTION)

When one individual or person says they are Palestinian, what characteristic and under what legal criteria are they implying they meet?

Israel has very specific legal domestic law covering "citizenship." Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"

Most Respectfully,
R

Where are the corresponding criteria to be a "Palestinian?"

It was a part of international law and reiterated in the Treaty of Lausanne and the Palestine Citizenship order of 1925.

(COMMENT)

First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination. International Law was not created by the people of the proposed nation.

Second, the Treaty of Lausanne (Part I - Section II Nationality - Article 30) speaks to:

◈ Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory​

◈ laid down by the local law, ​

Turkish subjects → Were you ever a "Turkish Subject?"
What → local law defines a 21st Century "Palestinian?"

The Palestine Citizenship Order pertains to:

• The territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
• Palestine is today (25 Feb 1948) a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
• After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

A Legal Examination of Nationality in Palestine under Britain’s Rule
Chapter V - pp 96, Copyright 2008 by Koninklijke Brill NV, Leiden, The Netherlands.
Copyright Year: 2009
Publication Date: 17 Sep 2008


Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated.

According to this version of Article 2 of the 1925 Citizenship Order, the right​

of individuals of this group to opt for Palestinian nationality had to be exercised within two years, from the date on which the Order entered into force (i.e. between 1 August 1925 and 31 July 1927). This indeed is the logic the Order used in its Article 1, Clause (1), which fixed the 1st August 1925 as the starting date of Palestinian nationality for those Turkish subjects residing in Palestine. However, on 12 November 1925, the High Commissioner for Palestine decided by a Proclamation gazetted on 16 November 1925 that the right of option should start retroactively from 6 August 1924. 533 Thus, the time limit to opt for Palestinian nationality was terminated on 5 August 1926, one year after the enactment of the Order. The starting date to exercise the right of option was apparently designed to meet the requirements of Article 34 of the Treaty of Lausanne.​

​

Substantively, however, in formulating Article 2 of the Citizenship Order, the​

drafters narrowly interpreted Article 34 of the Treaty of Lausanne. A critical case before the Supreme Court of Palestine, regrettably, confirmed this narrow interpretation. In its dealings with this group, the Government of Palestine strictly implemented Article 2 and, in so doing, denied thousands of persons born in Palestine the right to acquire Palestinian nationality solely because they happened to have been outside Palestine on the given date.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.

Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that govern the relations between nations.​

If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.

I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You are the one confused. Your argument is hardly applicable. The question is, → what law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship? It is a basic criterion as a Convention on Rights and Duties of States:

a ) a permanent population; ​

No criteria for citizenship.​

b ) a defined territory; ​

No Borders were established, unique to the State of Palestine alla 2012.​

c ) government; ​

No functional government able to "stand by themselves."​

d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​

No ability to set a credible commitment.​

First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.

Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that govern the relations between nations.​

If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.

I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.

(COMMENT)
.
Please take note. I said "does not substitute" 'v' "law can apply." (Big difference.). There is no International Law that specifically sets the criteria for Palestinian Citizenship for the State of Palestine (alla December 2012).

International Law comes in different flavors. But in this case, the (so-called) State of Palestine has demonstrated it has not been capable of performing basic legislation on many matters, including "citizenship." If there is a "burden" on other countries, it is the Ramallah and Gaza Governments that placed a burden on the International Community. It is the donations by the International Community that have kept these governments afloat.

But as of this date, the State of Palestine cannot identify the requirements for distinguishing their citizenship criteria from others citizens. It was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) that declared independence in 1988.

The Palestine National Council (PNC)(the legislative body of the PLO) hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​

Like I said, I'm not confused. What law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship? How does the PNC tell the difference between a person who qualifies for citizenship and a person who does not qualify for citizenship?
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You are the one confused. Your argument is hardly applicable. The question is, → what law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship? It is a basic criterion as a Convention on Rights and Duties of States:

a ) a permanent population; ​

No criteria for citizenship.​

b ) a defined territory; ​

No Borders were established, unique to the State of Palestine alla 2012.​

c ) government; ​

No functional government able to "stand by themselves."​

d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​

No ability to set a credible commitment.​

First, international law does not substitute for domestic law. If it did, then it would nullify the principle of self-determination.

Generally, International Law refers to a body of rules that govern the relations between nations.​

If your citizenship law places a burden on other nations then international law can apply.

I don't know how to unconfuse you on this.

(COMMENT)
.
Please take note. I said "does not substitute" 'v' "law can apply." (Big difference.). There is no International Law that specifically sets the criteria for Palestinian Citizenship for the State of Palestine (alla December 2012).

International Law comes in different flavors. But in this case, the (so-called) State of Palestine has demonstrated it has not been capable of performing basic legislation on many matters, including "citizenship." If there is a "burden" on other countries, it is the Ramallah and Gaza Governments that placed a burden on the International Community. It is the donations by the International Community that have kept these governments afloat.

But as of this date, the State of Palestine cannot identify the requirements for distinguishing their citizenship criteria from others citizens. It was the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) that declared independence in 1988.

The Palestine National Council (PNC)(the legislative body of the PLO) hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.​

Like I said, I'm not confused. What law sets the criteria for Arab-Palestinian Citizenship? How does the PNC tell the difference between a person who qualifies for citizenship and a person who does not qualify for citizenship?
.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are bouncing around like a football pretending to have a point. You have to follow the path, step by step, to understand what happened. You step in Israeli bullshit and slide off that path.

These steps have been documented to you many times Yet you take Israel say so over these documents, I can go through these steps again, however, my experience tells me that that will not help.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The path has a starting point.

Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated.​

You are bouncing around like a football pretending to have a point. You have to follow the path, step by step, to understand what happened. You step in Israeli bullshit and slide off that path.

These steps have been documented to you many times Yet you take Israel say so over these documents, I can go through these steps again, however, my experience tells me that that will not help.

(COMMENT)

I responded and refuted each claim you made → as you made them. I even quoted each claim.

You tried desperately to mask the fact that you cannot cite the "law" pertaining to citizenship criteria for the particular territory under dispute.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Legal Complaint on Decisions Mada a Century Ago...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The path has a starting point.

Hence, any legal consideration on the future status of individuals who once held Palestinian nationality should start from the point at which the British rule over Palestine was terminated.​

View attachment 514249

(COMMENT)

I responded and refuted each claim you made → as you made them. I even quoted each claim.

You tried desperately to mask the fact that you cannot cite the "law" pertaining to citizenship criteria for the particular territory under dispute.

Most Respectfully,
R

Step by step.

The Allied Powers decided not to annex the territories of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They decided to create new states. Through treaties they defined the international borders of the new states. Palestine was one of those states. (Confirmed by the LoN and several court decisions.)

The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.

If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.

 

[Hollie]

Step by step.

The Allied Powers decided not to annex the territories of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They decided to create new states. Through treaties they defined the international borders of the new states. Palestine was one of those states. (Confirmed by the LoN and several court decisions.)

The territory was transferred to Palestine and the inhabitants whold be nationals of their new state. (Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne.) This was followed up by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 1925 that gave Palestinian citizenship to the former Ottoman subjects living on that land.

If you disagree with any of these issues, pull it out for discussion.

No territory was transferred to 'Palestine'.

 

[Hollie]

One of the many Islamic terrorist franchises operating out of the territories occupied by many islamic terrorist franchises has a new Emir.

I'm guessing we'll soon hear a speech from the new Emir about the imminent destruction of israel, the glory of gee-had and the recent child graduates of the Hamas run Hitler Youth who will be sacrificed for the UNRWA welfare dollars.

Syria-based breakaway Palestinian faction elects new leader

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A breakaway Palestinian faction that carried out...

www.sfgate.com

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — A breakaway Palestinian faction that carried out headline-grabbing attacks against Israel in the 1970s and 1980s has named a veteran new leader after its longtime founder died, the group said Sunday.

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command said Talal Naji, was elected during a meeting in Damascus. He will replace Ahmed Jibril, who died on July 7 after being sick for months.