Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[Blues Man]

The earth is the greatest material object in the universe (it's the 'apple' of God's eye). Sadly, most people are not worthy of it.

That is a grandiose statement considering that we only have a working knowledge of about 5% of the matter and energy in the universe and that we have no idea what may exist in the other billions of galaxies

 

[Woodznutz]

That is a grandiose statement considering that we only have a working knowledge of about 5% of the matter and energy in the universe and that we have no idea what may exist in the other billions of galaxies

Until something greater is discovered earth is the greatest.

 

[Blues Man]

Until something greater is discovered earth is the greatest.

Still a pretty grandiose statement considering how little we know about the universe.

Isn't that kind of pride a sin?

 

[Meriweather]

most Jews rejected him, and still do.

Let's keep in mind what it is Jews reject and why.

First, the Jewish Messiah is to be a man who rules the Jewish nation here on earth. He is expected to make the Jewish nation a light to the Gentiles of ways that are right. Jesus never was an earthly ruler and never wished to be.

Second, Jews believe God is not human and that no human can be God. To believe such a thing would be to profane the One God who is Spirit and never a physical being.

Most of Jesus' teachings they are/were in agreement with because these are teachings they have heard throughout their history, throughout their lives. Most Jews today, would appreciate his standing against Annas and Caiaphas--and any who supported the two as Jewish High Priests.

Christians should be able to agree that Jesus was not/is not the earthly ruler, the messiah, Jews were and are expecting. That is not difficult. Where we will always differ is over Jesus being One with God. Even so, we each have the ability to understand the why of these two very different beliefs.

 

[Meriweather]

The Jews are under God's curse,

God does not curse any of us. What we are always seeing is the goodness of God's creation. Every so often each one of us--or we as a group--go off track as humans do. We bring consequences on ourselves, just as we would bring the consequences of gravity upon ourselves if we should run off a cliff. God has always been there to help us back up, help us right what we did wrong, and then continue on. God's blessings are always available.

 

[Lisa558]

Dear Lisa,
More Christians are killed for their faith than are Jews (it's not funny).

Not by percentages. Did a crazed Christian hater kill half of all Christians just a couple of generations ago?

If you’re going to claim that Christians have been more persecuted than Jews, you’ll be laughed out of the building.

What’s truly amazing is that despite the horrific bigotry, Jews still rise to the top.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Thanks for responding. My response has already been posted in post #11. Basically, I argue that Christ is the God of the Old Testament and because of that, true Christianity has really existed since the days of Adam and Eve. When Moses went into the mount to receive the law of God, he came down and found the Israelites had created a golden calf and were worshipping it. He then broke the tables he received and latter went back into the mount to speak to God where he received a lesser law and lesser priesthood for the Israelites to follow. From that time to the days of John the Baptist, the higher law was not found upon the earth. The tribe of Judah who remained over these many years were steeped in the law of Moses and did not have the higher priesthood which had the power of giving the gift of the Holy ghost. So the law of the gospel was written on tablets of stone until Jesus came and then they were written on the tablets of the heart. So, before the days of Moses, there were times when a higher priesthood was had upon the earth and that it all came through the God of the Old Testament which was Jesus Christ. Thus Christianity, though not called by that name, is believed by me to have come before Judaism.

The problem that I have with Jesus and God being one and the same is that when Jesus was asked when He would return, He said that He didn't know, as only The Father (God) knew the answer to that question. So..............if Jesus and God were one and the same, why did Jesus say that He didn't know when He'd return, only God knew the answer to that?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Mr. One It might interest you to know that muslims teach that the KORAN preceded the NT
and the OT ------and both are perversions of the ORIGINAL (I learned that in a mosque)

Yep. Judaism came first, then came Christianity, and then came Islam (which is around 500 years younger than Christianity incidentally).

And.....................as far as the Koran goes? Sorry, but I can't really attribute it to Mohammed, as the Koran was compiled AFTER Mohammed died, and it was written by committee. One person said that they'd heard Mohammed say something, and if it was verified by at least 2 other people, it made it into the Koran. If not, then it wasn't.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Judaism began with the sect of the Pharisees about 150 years before Christ. Jesus kept the Law but never practiced Judaism and condemned the Pharisees for practicing it.

Judaism: Making up the "law" out of whole cloth. It's called Midrash.

Actually, Judaism started with Abraham, which was many years prior to Christ.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Belief without 'proof': Faith

Ya gotta have faith in something. Might as well have it in something greater than what is here on earth.

A friend of mine described the difference between belief and faith quite nicely once.................

He said that if I see an advertisement for a product (say......laundry detergent) that promises me to get my laundry the cleanest it's ever been, and I decide to go and buy it based on the advertisement, never having used it before............that's "faith". I have faith that the advertisement told me the truth, even though I never used it before.

But....................after I buy the detergent, use it, and see that it gets my clothes cleaner than the stuff I was using before, then when I go back to the store for the same detergent, I'm not going there on faith, now I'm going there on belief because I've actually verified that it works for me.

If it doesn't, then I know the ad lied to me, and I will never believe their advertisement again.

Same with religion. Someone tells me that their belief system will work for me because it's done wonders for them, then I go ahead and try it to see if it works for me. If it does, then I now have belief in that particular system because I have proof in my own life. If it doesn't, then I go searching again for something that will work for me.

God really doesn't care what vehicle (faith/religion/belief system) that you use to get to Him. He just cares that you get to Him somehow. Whether you come from the East/West/North or South, all paths lead to the top of the mountain. Some are just easier than others.

That's why I never disparage anyone's belief system if it works for them.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem that I have with Jesus and God being one and the same is that when Jesus was asked when He would return, He said that He didn't know, as only The Father (God) knew the answer to that question. So..............if Jesus and God were one and the same, why did Jesus say that He didn't know when He'd return, only God knew the answer to that?

Jesus is thought to have two natures: Divine and human. True human nature cannot contain all that is divine...one would have to leave the capsule of humanity behind. Of course, that does not answer the follow-up question we had as young teens in religion class: Couldn't Jesus have just asked the Father if he, in human form, didn't know? After all, he prayed to God all the time in order to perform miracles.

So much mystery...and heaven's answers hidden from our sight. Perhaps for our own good.

 

[Woodznutz]

Still a pretty grandiose statement considering how little we know about the universe.

Isn't that kind of pride a sin?

This is the only place that God made for us. Yea Earth!

 

[Woodznutz]

Jesus never was an earthly ruler and never wished to be.

He was born to be a king, and he will be at his second coming.

John 18: 36-37
36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

 

[ABikerSailor]

Jesus is thought to have two natures: Divine and human. True human nature cannot contain all that is divine...one would have to leave the capsule of humanity behind. Of course, that does not answer the follow-up question we had as young teens in religion class: Couldn't Jesus have just asked the Father if he, in human form, didn't know? After all, he prayed to God all the time in order to perform miracles.

So much mystery...and heaven's answers hidden from our sight. Perhaps for our own good.

Well, many Christians believe that Jesus was divine all through His time here. One example is the way He debated with the rabbis in the Temple and won the debates with them as a child.

And yeah......................Jesus could have asked God when He was supposed to be back, and chances are very good that He did ask, which is why He told his disciples that only God knew when He'd return, because God told Him that He wasn't going to say when He'd return.

 

[Woodznutz]

Not by percentages. Did a crazed Christian hater kill half of all Christians just a couple of generations ago?

If you’re going to claim that Christians have been more persecuted than Jews, you’ll be laughed out of the building.

What’s truly amazing is that despite the horrific bigotry, Jews still rise to the top.

Not what I said. Reread that post.

 

[Woodznutz]

A friend of mine described the difference between belief and faith quite nicely once.................

He said that if I see an advertisement for a product (say......laundry detergent) that promises me to get my laundry the cleanest it's ever been, and I decide to go and buy it based on the advertisement, never having used it before............that's "faith". I have faith that the advertisement told me the truth, even though I never used it before.

But....................after I buy the detergent, use it, and see that it gets my clothes cleaner than the stuff I was using before, then when I go back to the store for the same detergent, I'm not going there on faith, now I'm going there on belief because I've actually verified that it works for me.

If it doesn't, then I know the ad lied to me, and I will never believe their advertisement again.

Same with religion. Someone tells me that their belief system will work for me because it's done wonders for them, then I go ahead and try it to see if it works for me. If it does, then I now have belief in that particular system because I have proof in my own life. If it doesn't, then I go searching again for something that will work for me.

God really doesn't care what vehicle (faith/religion/belief system) that you use to get to Him. He just cares that you get to Him somehow. Whether you come from the East/West/North or South, all paths lead to the top of the mountain. Some are just easier than others.

That's why I never disparage anyone's belief system if it works for them.

Jesus Christ is the only pathway to God, according to the Christian Bible.

 

[Woodznutz]

Actually, Judaism started with Abraham, which was many years prior to Christ.

Judaism is a corruption of the Law that began with the sect of the Pharisees about 150 years before Christ.

You can go over the Torah with a divining rod and never find a shred of evidence for Judaism.

 

[BreezeWood]

who in their right mind would place themselves inside a woman's uterus for 9 months waiting to be "born" ... and then act like a baby, learn how to walk and spend 30 years - growing up.

I'll attempt to decipher your gibberish.

If you are speaking about Jesus and His virgin mother, Mary, as well as the place of His birth, you've clearly missed the point of the Bible story and it's history. You MUST start at the beginning in the Book of Genesis. The fall of man is the key that answers the need for Jesus Christ.

Where Christ grew up is irrelevant to His most profound purpose. I'll explain more if you're interested.

you did not answer the question - who in their right mind would believe the above ...


jesus taught the correct heavenly genesis ... the religion of antiquity

Then God said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

to dispel the liar moses and the inclusion of their lies written in the judean documents. and all 3 false desert religions.

 

[SaxonJackson]

you did not answer the question - who in their right mind would believe the above ...


jesus taught the correct heavenly genesis ... the religion of antiquity



to dispel the liar moses and the inclusion of their lies written in the judean documents. and all 3 false desert religions.

Children of God who've been awakened by the Holy Spirit. There's a lot going on beyond your limited perception (and mine).

 

[Woodznutz]

God does not curse any of us. What we are always seeing is the goodness of God's creation. Every so often each one of us--or we as a group--go off track as humans do. We bring consequences on ourselves, just as we would bring the consequences of gravity upon ourselves if we should run off a cliff. God has always been there to help us back up, help us right what we did wrong, and then continue on. God's blessings are always available.

Do a subject search of the Bible using the keyword "curse".