Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

[Old Rocks]

Where is the climate emergency?

 

[Dadoalex]

Watts Up With That?

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

April, 2021

Excerpt:

I listed some of the following in my previous post, and a commenter said they were important enough to deserve a post on their own … I agree.

Despite my asking over and over in a host of forums, to date nobody has been able to tell me just what this supposed “CLIMATE EMERGENCY!!” actually is and where I might find evidence that it exists. Here are some facts for the folks that think that the climate is a real danger to humanity.

Deaths from climate-related phenomena are at an all-time low. If you think deaths from climate-related catastrophes are an emergency, please point in the graph below to the start of the “emergency”.

LINK for a lot more charts

=====

I posted this very article in another forum two months ago to see that after 13 pages of replies not a single counterpoint answer comes against it by warmist/alarmists. Their replies are evasive goal post moving and totally laughable.

You think "climate Change" is about a tornado that occurred in Kansas in 1920?

Fewer people die in wars. Doesn't make wars less bad, just means the medical technology is able to save them.
In 1920 the world had no weather satellites, and the ability to predict dangerous weather beyond a few hours didn't exist. Because that technology didn't exist neither did EMS and the people/systems to manage weather emergencies.

NOTE I said "weather emergencies" not "climate change."
You, as is the tendency among your kind, conflate "weather" with "climate change." This, of course, is the source of your error.

Your analogy is flawed and because everything that flows from that mistake, contains that mistake, the OP is flawed.

 

[Dadoalex]

Silly thread.
Climate change can cost trillions and kill millions through starvation.
Look at how quickly the dry Sahara desert resulted from the swamps that were here before it only about 10,000 years ago.
And we are accelerating the process down to only a couple hundred years or so.
Sure there would still be places with a useful climate, but almost every one would have to move, and most animals would be unlikely to adapt.

Yet you post zero evidence to support your climate fearmongering, did you bother to read the article?

There is no need for me to prove anything, since we have all seen the increases in temperature, the missing glaciers, etc.
Remember that the Arctic Ocean was never navigable even in summer, until 2009.
{...
Until 2009, the Arctic pack ice prevented regular marine shipping throughout most of the year. Arctic sea ice decline has rendered the waterways more navigable for ice navigation.[6][7][8][9]
...}
Now the Northwest Passage is always open.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

What is the meaning of "emergency"

In any sense the definition of "Emergency" is a situation wherein if something is not done immediately to alter the current trajectory
Situations?
A CAT5 hurricane is stationary 10 miles off the NC coast predicted to turn dues West in 6 hours and the evacuation is not complete;
The storm turns due West and then upon reaching the mountains turns NE. Dropping 6-10 inches of rain per hour flash floods are imminent.
We are said to be rapidly approaching a point where we will be unable to repair the damage. First, plants, then large mammals, then large fish, then everything else.

So, what's an emergency to you?

 

[westwall]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

Maybe, I don't know, but most climatologists would disagree with you.

Who cares. They are nothing more than pseudo scientists at this point. They rely on computer derived fiction to support their positions. They rely on falsified data to support their positions, which supports their "sustainable" companies that they all own, and who's government funding they rely on to keep themselves living high on the hog.

Appeals to authority are logic fails.

They are logic fails for a reason.

So you're saying that the overwhelming number of climatologists are corrupt. Of course your sources are not only honest but appealing to them is OK since they are not authorities on climate. Yeah, that sounds logical to me.

No, just 74 or so. You can tell the corrupt ones because will try and prevent scientific debate.

Science is ARGUMENT. It is not consensus. Anyone who claims the science is settled, is a charlatan.

Ask yourself a question. Why would a multi millionaire climatologist who has made at least 30 million bucks from government grants, sue a nobody climatologists like Tim Ball?

Then, for years ignore discovery requests till finally the famous climatologist was sanctioned by the Court.

What was Dr. Balls crime? He dared question the consensus that the famous climatologist had spent years constructing......at great economic benefit to himself.

 

[westwall]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.

Good. Keep government out of it. Government hinders tech advances. Climatologists are clamoring for government control of everything.

 

[ding]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

 

[ReinyDays]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

It's 2ºC warmer right now that it was at sunrise this morning ... where's the emergency? ...

Ha ha ... 110ºF in Redding, CA is common for June ... about as normal as normal can be ... if you'd have checked, that 110ºF temperature coincides with a 20ºF dew point, which equates to a 6% RH ... "It's not the triple digits temperatures that get ya, it's the double digit humidity" ... milder weather than Atlanta at 90ºF and 90% RH ...

 

[alang1216]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.

Good. Keep government out of it. Government hinders tech advances. Climatologists are clamoring for government control of everything.

Government has a role to play since the free market is not good at investing in basic research. It was gov't funding that enabled a Covid vax to be developed so quickly.

 

[alang1216]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

"there is a reason that explains all"

In your mind or in the minds of the people who have studied climate for decades?

 

[ding]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

"there is a reason that explains all"

In your mind or in the minds of the people who have studied climate for decades?

In the minds of people who have studied paleo-climates for decades.

 

[ding]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.

Good. Keep government out of it. Government hinders tech advances. Climatologists are clamoring for government control of everything.

Government has a role to play since the free market is not good at investing in basic research. It was gov't funding that enabled a Covid vax to be developed so quickly.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that the free market is not good at investing in basic research? Because that seems like a really stupid assertion.

 

[alang1216]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

"there is a reason that explains all"

In your mind or in the minds of the people who have studied climate for decades?

In the minds of people who have studied paleo-climates for decades.

Names or links?

 

[ding]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

The point isn't that the climate is constantly changing. The point is that there was a major shift in climate from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world and it resulted in a more drastic and more frequent temperature changes. AND that there is a reason that explains all of that. None of which are being discussed and all of which are relevant to discussions of CLIMATE and the silly claims that are being made.

"there is a reason that explains all"

In your mind or in the minds of the people who have studied climate for decades?

In the minds of people who have studied paleo-climates for decades.

Names or links?

Quaternary glaciation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Descent into the Icehouse | Geology | GeoScienceWorld

pubs.geoscienceworld.org

(PDF) Thresholds for Cenozoic bipolar glaciation

PDF | The long-standing view of Earth's Cenozoic glacial history calls for the first continental-scale glaciation of Antarctica in the earliest... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

No extreme bipolar glaciation during the main Eocene calcite compensation shift - Nature

The hypothesis that large ice sheets were present in both hemispheres ∼41.6 million years ago is tested, using marine sediment records from the equatorial Atlantic Ocean. The estimates of ice volume at this time can easily be accommodated on Antarctica, but were not the Northern Hemisphere...

www.nature.com

Paleoclimatology

www.lakepowell.net

Climate variability and change - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What Did the Continents Look Like Millions of Years Ago?

An artist-geologist renders the history of the Earth with maps.

www.theatlantic.com

(PDF) Pearson, P. N. & Palmer, M. R. Atmospheric carbon dioxide over the past 60 million years. Nature 406, 695-699

PDF | Knowledge of the evolution of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations throughout the Earth's history is important for a reconstruction of the... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Greenhouse and icehouse Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Proc. IODP, 318, Expedition 318 summary

publications.iodp.org

AAAS

science.sciencemag.org

Paleoclimatology: Climate Proxies

Created by Monica Bruckner, Montana State University. What is Paleoclimatology? Paleoclimatology is the study of past climates. Since it is not possible to go back in time to see what climates were like, ...

serc.carleton.edu

Paleoclimates

www.globalchange.umich.edu

And my personal favorite...

https://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAMERICA.html

 

[westwall]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.

Good. Keep government out of it. Government hinders tech advances. Climatologists are clamoring for government control of everything.

Government has a role to play since the free market is not good at investing in basic research. It was gov't funding that enabled a Covid vax to be developed so quickly.

The free market is GREAT at basic research. Solar energy is stalled tech wise, because government bails out and rewards failure.

My solar system, that I built over 30 years ago now, is operating at 9% efficiency. It operated at 18% when it was new.

Guess what efficiency rate you can get from a new system today.

About 15%. So.....Thirty years on, and no increase in basic efficiency. That sort of failure is rewarded by the government.

It isn't tolerated in private industry.

 

[alang1216]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.

Good. Keep government out of it. Government hinders tech advances. Climatologists are clamoring for government control of everything.

Government has a role to play since the free market is not good at investing in basic research. It was gov't funding that enabled a Covid vax to be developed so quickly.

The free market is GREAT at basic research. Solar energy is stalled tech wise, because government bails out and rewards failure.

My solar system, that I built over 30 years ago now, is operating at 9% efficiency. It operated at 18% when it was new.

Guess what efficiency rate you can get from a new system today.

About 15%. So.....Thirty years on, and no increase in basic efficiency. That sort of failure is rewarded by the government.

It isn't tolerated in private industry.

I have no idea what kind of solar system you have but I do know the price of photovoltaics have fallen because the Chinese government subsidized their development. China now controls the market.

 

[jc456]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

Always has

 

[jc456]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

Maybe, I don't know, but most climatologists would disagree with you.

Who cares. They are nothing more than pseudo scientists at this point. They rely on computer derived fiction to support their positions. They rely on falsified data to support their positions, which supports their "sustainable" companies that they all own, and who's government funding they rely on to keep themselves living high on the hog.

Appeals to authority are logic fails.

They are logic fails for a reason.

So you're saying that the overwhelming number of climatologists are corrupt. Of course your sources are not only honest but appealing to them is OK since they are not authorities on climate. Yeah, that sounds logical to me.

Admittedly

 

[MisterBeale]

Where is the climate emergency?

 

[jc456]

In 1920 the world had no weather satellites, and the ability to predict dangerous weather beyond a few hours didn't exist. Because that technology didn't exist neither did EMS and the people/systems to manage weather emergencies

And there in lies your issue, because all of that technology exists today, you believe it automatically makes things worse! And yet you acknowledge you have no historical records to say such a thing.

 

[alang1216]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

Always has

And people have always suffered and died. Call me crazy, I guess I'm not OK with that.