Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

[AZrailwhale]

Watts Up With That?

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

April, 2021

Excerpt:

I listed some of the following in my previous post, and a commenter said they were important enough to deserve a post on their own … I agree.

Despite my asking over and over in a host of forums, to date nobody has been able to tell me just what this supposed “CLIMATE EMERGENCY!!” actually is and where I might find evidence that it exists. Here are some facts for the folks that think that the climate is a real danger to humanity.

Deaths from climate-related phenomena are at an all-time low. If you think deaths from climate-related catastrophes are an emergency, please point in the graph below to the start of the “emergency”.

LINK for a lot more charts

=====

I posted this very article in another forum two months ago to see that after 13 pages of replies not a single counterpoint answer comes against it by warmist/alarmists. Their replies are evasive goal post moving and totally laughable.

I visited Iceland and saw a glacier that had retreated by many kilometers since man got there, mostly in the past 100 years. This story is common around the world. If all the glaciers melt sea level will rise and our low-lying lands, where most people live, will be inundated.

You seem unaware that one of the main reasons for undoubted retreats is that the planet exited the LIA into a warming world we enjoy today.

Most of the glacial retreats started over a CENTURY ago, which is due to the ending of the same LIA that built them up in the first place.

It is a NATURAL process that started 300 years ago, long before the bogeyman effect warmists/alarmists suffer from over a trace gas with trace effects on the "heat" budget.

Earthquakes and volcanoes are natural but still manage to bring disaster to man.

Then you can't show there is a climate emergency brewing on us.

It appears to me the climate is warming. We're adapted to the climate of today, ANY change will bring hardship to some.

And benefits to others. Prime farmland will become desert and desert will become prime farmland.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Silly thread.
Climate change can cost trillions and kill millions through starvation.
Look at how quickly the dry Sahara desert resulted from the swamps that were here before it only about 10,000 years ago.
And we are accelerating the process down to only a couple hundred years or so.
Sure there would still be places with a useful climate, but almost every one would have to move, and most animals would be unlikely to adapt.

Yet you post zero evidence to support your climate fearmongering, did you bother to read the article?

There is no need for me to prove anything, since we have all seen the increases in temperature, the missing glaciers, etc.
Remember that the Arctic Ocean was never navigable even in summer, until 2009.
{...
Until 2009, the Arctic pack ice prevented regular marine shipping throughout most of the year. Arctic sea ice decline has rendered the waterways more navigable for ice navigation.[6][7][8][9]
...}
Now the Northwest Passage is always open.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

Sure it is.
Lots of areas rely on mountain or glacier snow pack for water storage.
That is all gone, so then many states already have water shortages.
IE CA.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

California water shortages are largely self inflicted, but you are too busy drinking to know that.

You have ignored the article that shows the very opposite with data, this is why I am laughing tonight, keeping me awake reading your ignorance.

Sothern California has always been a desert and short of water. Until William Mulholland conceived and built the system of canals that bring water from the Sierra Nevadas and Sacramento Delta, Los Angeles' population was very limited. Southern California stopped building reservoirs way back in the sixties or seventies and the population has increased many times over since then. The shortage of water there is entirely man made.

yep! the fact the idiots that call themselves californians, don't know to build reservoirs is purely their fault.

It's not strictly a lack of reservoirs, the problem is that California has moved something like thirty million people into a desert (San Diego, Greater Los Angeles and Ventura-Oxnard-Santa Barbara. Even in good years there is barely enough water for the population.

 

[jc456]

It's not strictly a lack of reservoirs, the problem is that California has moved something like thirty million people into a desert (San Diego, Greater Los Angeles and Ventura-Oxnard-Santa Barbara. Even in good years there is barely enough water for the population

Or don’t let the water run into the ocean, that would solve that problem

 

[Sunsettommy]

Silly thread.
Climate change can cost trillions and kill millions through starvation.
Look at how quickly the dry Sahara desert resulted from the swamps that were here before it only about 10,000 years ago.
And we are accelerating the process down to only a couple hundred years or so.
Sure there would still be places with a useful climate, but almost every one would have to move, and most animals would be unlikely to adapt.

Yet you post zero evidence to support your climate fearmongering, did you bother to read the article?

There is no need for me to prove anything, since we have all seen the increases in temperature, the missing glaciers, etc.
Remember that the Arctic Ocean was never navigable even in summer, until 2009.
{...
Until 2009, the Arctic pack ice prevented regular marine shipping throughout most of the year. Arctic sea ice decline has rendered the waterways more navigable for ice navigation.[6][7][8][9]
...}
Now the Northwest Passage is always open.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

Sure it is.
Lots of areas rely on mountain or glacier snow pack for water storage.
That is all gone, so then many states already have water shortages.
IE CA.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

California water shortages are largely self inflicted, but you are too busy drinking to know that.

You have ignored the article that shows the very opposite with data, this is why I am laughing tonight, keeping me awake reading your ignorance.

Sothern California has always been a desert and short of water. Until William Mulholland conceived and built the system of canals that bring water from the Sierra Nevadas and Sacramento Delta, Los Angeles' population was very limited. Southern California stopped building reservoirs way back in the sixties or seventies and the population has increased many times over since then. The shortage of water there is entirely man made.

yep! the fact the idiots that call themselves californians, don't know to build reservoirs is purely their fault.

It's not strictly a lack of reservoirs, the problem is that California has moved something like thirty million people into a desert (San Diego, Greater Los Angeles and Ventura-Oxnard-Santa Barbara. Even in good years there is barely enough water for the population.

I posted to HERE show that California waste a lot of run off water.

A Sinister Agenda Behind California Water Crisis?

 

[alang1216]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

View attachment 501739
View attachment 501740
View attachment 501741

Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

 

[ding]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

View attachment 501739
View attachment 501740
View attachment 501741

Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

Ummmm... it's called data. You know like in actual climate data. Why is it that I know more about earth's climate than you do?

 

[alang1216]

The climate is natural too. Mankind hasn't got the power to increase the temperature of the globe.

We just don't.

What is that based on? We influence many natural things.

But you don't specify what they are and YOU keep ignoring Post one, could it be because you have no answer to the Question.....

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

SATELLITE IMAGES REVEAL ICE SHELF PROTECTING ANTARCTIC GLACIER IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE​

A critical Antarctic glacier is looking more vulnerable as satellite images show the ice shelf that blocks it from collapsing into the sea is breaking up much faster than before and spawning huge icebergs, a new study says. The Pine Island Glacier’s ice shelf loss accelerated in 2017, causing scientists to worry that with climate change the glacier’s collapse could happen quicker than the many centuries predicted. The floating ice shelf acts like a cork in a bottle for the fast-melting glacier and prevents its much larger ice mass from flowing into the ocean.

It is pathetic when your source ignores the active VOLCANO that is under part of the Pine Island glacier, similar with Thwaties glacier.

The ignorance and your shallow link is scary to behold since this was news a few years ago.....

Meanwhile still no climate emergency to show........

Why does the cause matter? If the ice sheet collapses it is a “Climate Emergency” in my book.

Because leftists are using the fraud of climate change to implement draconian wealth stealing laws to enrich the wealthy, and impoverish the middle class

Look up what it meant to be a serf in the middle ages, and then compare that to what it would be like to live under the green new deal.

But what if it is NOT a fraud and climate change turns out to be real? I see the options as:

1. Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs
2. Climate change is real and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: suffering and disaster on a local scale (developed countries would be spared the worst of it)
3. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do nothing: we played Russian Roulette with our children and won
4. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: costly but insurance always is.

Personally, I'm good with either 2 or 4, the lives of my children and grandchildren are worth a lot to me.

Climate change is real, and unaffected by man. Thus we CAN do nothing to influence it.

Instead of stealing people's money to make rich people fabulously wealthy, how about we just mitigate what does happen.

It is far cheaper, and much less wasteful.

Sounds like what I've been saying. What do you suggest?

First off you need to ask yourself, "how does destroying the middle class help solve ANY problem?" I challenge you to look at every solution that the politicians have to "solve the problem of climate change" You will find two things that they all have in common. A carbon tax, and NO draconian measures to reduce carbon emissions.

What does that tell you? It tells me that they are saying "go ahead and pollute, just pay us for the privilege". You would think that if carbon were such a huuuuuuge problem, there would be outrageous proposals to truly take us back to the bronze age to control mans miniscule CO2 production. And it is miniscule. But no. No draconian laws, just a tax.

Now. Ask yourself why.

I'm not sure what you refer to. I know my car gets 30+ mpg and is much safer and more comfortable than the cars I grew up in. If that cuts down on CO2 emissions and use of oil, I'm all for it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Silly thread.
Climate change can cost trillions and kill millions through starvation.
Look at how quickly the dry Sahara desert resulted from the swamps that were here before it only about 10,000 years ago.
And we are accelerating the process down to only a couple hundred years or so.
Sure there would still be places with a useful climate, but almost every one would have to move, and most animals would be unlikely to adapt.

Yet you post zero evidence to support your climate fearmongering, did you bother to read the article?

There is no need for me to prove anything, since we have all seen the increases in temperature, the missing glaciers, etc.
Remember that the Arctic Ocean was never navigable even in summer, until 2009.
{...
Until 2009, the Arctic pack ice prevented regular marine shipping throughout most of the year. Arctic sea ice decline has rendered the waterways more navigable for ice navigation.[6][7][8][9]
...}
Now the Northwest Passage is always open.

Still nothing you say this is climate emergency situation, are you drinking tonight?

Sure it is.
Lots of areas rely on mountain or glacier snow pack for water storage.
That is all gone, so then many states already have water shortages.
IE CA.

California is subject to periodic droughts. We had one that lasted 200 years.

 

[jc456]

And benefits to others. Prime farmland will become desert and desert will become prime farmland

Things man can’t control,
1. The axis of the earth,
2. How the sun hits the earth
3. The spin of the earth
4. The tilt of the earth

that all controls climate

magnetic poles controls weather patterns from sun particles.

let us know how to change that

 

[jc456]

I'm not sure what you refer to. I know my car gets 30+ mpg and is much safer and more comfortable than the cars I grew up in. If that cuts down on CO2 emissions and use of oil, I'm all for it.

Pollution is horrible, hard to breathe.

price of oil went quite high, nice to get more efficient use of it for the pocketbook.

that’s about it. Oh and weight

 

[alang1216]

The climate is natural too. Mankind hasn't got the power to increase the temperature of the globe.

We just don't.

What is that based on? We influence many natural things.

But you don't specify what they are and YOU keep ignoring Post one, could it be because you have no answer to the Question.....

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

SATELLITE IMAGES REVEAL ICE SHELF PROTECTING ANTARCTIC GLACIER IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE​

A critical Antarctic glacier is looking more vulnerable as satellite images show the ice shelf that blocks it from collapsing into the sea is breaking up much faster than before and spawning huge icebergs, a new study says. The Pine Island Glacier’s ice shelf loss accelerated in 2017, causing scientists to worry that with climate change the glacier’s collapse could happen quicker than the many centuries predicted. The floating ice shelf acts like a cork in a bottle for the fast-melting glacier and prevents its much larger ice mass from flowing into the ocean.

It is pathetic when your source ignores the active VOLCANO that is under part of the Pine Island glacier, similar with Thwaties glacier.

The ignorance and your shallow link is scary to behold since this was news a few years ago.....

Meanwhile still no climate emergency to show........

Why does the cause matter? If the ice sheet collapses it is a “Climate Emergency” in my book.

Because leftists are using the fraud of climate change to implement draconian wealth stealing laws to enrich the wealthy, and impoverish the middle class

Look up what it meant to be a serf in the middle ages, and then compare that to what it would be like to live under the green new deal.

But what if it is NOT a fraud and climate change turns out to be real? I see the options as:

1. Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs
2. Climate change is real and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: suffering and disaster on a local scale (developed countries would be spared the worst of it)
3. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do nothing: we played Russian Roulette with our children and won
4. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: costly but insurance always is.

Personally, I'm good with either 2 or 4, the lives of my children and grandchildren are worth a lot to me.

• Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs

This would require a breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics ... in which case, perpetual motion becomes a reality and our energy worries are over ... unlimited free energy for everybody on the planet is of greater benefit than the additional losses of 100-year weather events happening every 95 years ...

And check your math ... I come up with "great-great-grabdchildren" in 100 years ... the child born today has slim chance to be alive that far into the future ...

There's physics involved in all this ... and you're not allowed to break the Laws of Physics ... ever ...

I don't get the breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics, can you explain?

I don't get the breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics, can you explain?

I noticed ...

Either the disaster scenario requires energy be created where there was none before, thus violating the 1st Law ... or the scenario requires energy move from where it is lacking to where it is abundant, violating the 2nd Law ...

A single quantum of energy can either melt ice or raise temperatures ... never both ... you need to choose between global warming or collapsing ice sheets ... both can't occur with only 2 W/m^2 climate forcing ... it might surprise you but the number of seconds in a century is trivial compared to the number of grams in the climate system ...

I have no idea what axle you are wrapped around but I don't think you see the problem. If the ice on Antarctica melts it will raise sea levels. We have built our country based on the existing sea level. If it changes dramatically our coastal cities will flood, low-lying land, like Florida and the Gulf Coast, will be eroded. The cost of adapting to the change will be immense and we are a rich country. Bangladesh won't stand a chance.

 

[jc456]

I have no idea what axle you are wrapped around but I don't think you see the problem. If the ice on Antarctica melts it will raise sea levels

When

 

[alang1216]

And benefits to others. Prime farmland will become desert and desert will become prime farmland

Things man can’t control,
1. The axis of the earth,
2. How the sun hits the earth
3. The spin of the earth
4. The tilt of the earth

that all controls climate

magnetic poles controls weather patterns from sun particles.

let us know how to change that

#2 is the low-hanging fruit.

 

[alang1216]

I have no idea what axle you are wrapped around but I don't think you see the problem. If the ice on Antarctica melts it will raise sea levels

When

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now.

 

[Sunsettommy]

alang1216 writes:

"The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason."

The Sahara has been a desert for the last 3,000 years.

The Cedars of Lebanon is a victim of Deforestation.

Isles of Greece is a composite of up to 6,000 islands.

None of it has anything to do with the CO2 bogeyman.

Still waiting for the answer to the apparently very hard question:

Where is the Climate Emergency?

waiting
waiting
waiting......

 

[jc456]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

 

[alang1216]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

 

[westwall]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

View attachment 501739
View attachment 501740
View attachment 501741

Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

Yeah, man chopped them down. And the Sahara is regreening in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[westwall]

The climate is natural too. Mankind hasn't got the power to increase the temperature of the globe.

We just don't.

What is that based on? We influence many natural things.

But you don't specify what they are and YOU keep ignoring Post one, could it be because you have no answer to the Question.....

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

SATELLITE IMAGES REVEAL ICE SHELF PROTECTING ANTARCTIC GLACIER IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE​

A critical Antarctic glacier is looking more vulnerable as satellite images show the ice shelf that blocks it from collapsing into the sea is breaking up much faster than before and spawning huge icebergs, a new study says. The Pine Island Glacier’s ice shelf loss accelerated in 2017, causing scientists to worry that with climate change the glacier’s collapse could happen quicker than the many centuries predicted. The floating ice shelf acts like a cork in a bottle for the fast-melting glacier and prevents its much larger ice mass from flowing into the ocean.

It is pathetic when your source ignores the active VOLCANO that is under part of the Pine Island glacier, similar with Thwaties glacier.

The ignorance and your shallow link is scary to behold since this was news a few years ago.....

Meanwhile still no climate emergency to show........

Why does the cause matter? If the ice sheet collapses it is a “Climate Emergency” in my book.

Because leftists are using the fraud of climate change to implement draconian wealth stealing laws to enrich the wealthy, and impoverish the middle class

Look up what it meant to be a serf in the middle ages, and then compare that to what it would be like to live under the green new deal.

But what if it is NOT a fraud and climate change turns out to be real? I see the options as:

1. Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs
2. Climate change is real and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: suffering and disaster on a local scale (developed countries would be spared the worst of it)
3. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do nothing: we played Russian Roulette with our children and won
4. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: costly but insurance always is.

Personally, I'm good with either 2 or 4, the lives of my children and grandchildren are worth a lot to me.

Climate change is real, and unaffected by man. Thus we CAN do nothing to influence it.

Instead of stealing people's money to make rich people fabulously wealthy, how about we just mitigate what does happen.

It is far cheaper, and much less wasteful.

Sounds like what I've been saying. What do you suggest?

First off you need to ask yourself, "how does destroying the middle class help solve ANY problem?" I challenge you to look at every solution that the politicians have to "solve the problem of climate change" You will find two things that they all have in common. A carbon tax, and NO draconian measures to reduce carbon emissions.

What does that tell you? It tells me that they are saying "go ahead and pollute, just pay us for the privilege". You would think that if carbon were such a huuuuuuge problem, there would be outrageous proposals to truly take us back to the bronze age to control mans miniscule CO2 production. And it is miniscule. But no. No draconian laws, just a tax.

Now. Ask yourself why.

I'm not sure what you refer to. I know my car gets 30+ mpg and is much safer and more comfortable than the cars I grew up in. If that cuts down on CO2 emissions and use of oil, I'm all for it.

Actually they INCREASED CO2 production to get those tech advancements.

Every time there is a significant tech advancement, it comes at a significant increase in CO2 production.

How is it possible you didn't know that?

 

[westwall]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.