Where is the Center?

[Mac1958]

IMO someone in the "middle" does not follow lockstep with ideology associated with either extreme , whatever extreme is ??

is it possible to be

anti- abortion, but pro- gay marriage
pro - pot legalization but tough on crime
pro -union but against illegal immigration
atheist but believe that a manger scene hurts no one

some of the issues are personal and defy a label on way or another.

When I consider some issues I can not take a strong stance one way or another. I take those "political spectrum" tests and always get 1 click to the right and 1 click libertarian

shrugs

I think those are probably good examples of a centrist, meaning you agree with the left and right on different things while most on the left or right agree with most left or right issues. So it depends on the individual on the particular issues, and as such, there is no such thing as a center belief and no such thing as "the" center.

Agreed, the "center" is just the group of people who don't "choose sides", not that they're in the middle on issues.

.

 

[Bfgrn]

As someone who has been around since Harry Truman was in the White House, I can tell you that what was once the middle is now much farther right, NOT left.

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

Oh yeah sure, gay marriage, legalized pot, exploding entitlement spending, debt piled up too the moon, federal takeover of our health care, etc., we're marching steadily to the right!

LOL

Gay marriage and pot legalization are examples of how cultures and people mature. There is no 'exploding entitlement spending'... America's social safety net more closely resembles Mexico than any other industrialized nation. Debt falls squarely on Reagan who switched our government from tax and spend to borrow and spend. It took all the Presidents who preceded Reagan 200 years to accumulate one trillion dollars of debt. It took Reagan only 5 YEARS to accumulate the second trillion. There is no government take of healthcare. Did we get single payer? Did we even get a public option? We have a corporate takeover of healthcare. As a matter of FACT, we have Republican and Heritage Foundation healthcare.

 

[The Rabbi]

As someone who has been around since Harry Truman was in the White House, I can tell you that what was once the middle is now much farther right, NOT left.

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

Oh yeah sure, gay marriage, legalized pot, exploding entitlement spending, debt piled up too the moon, federal takeover of our health care, etc., we're marching steadily to the right!

LOL

Gay marriage and pot legalization are examples of how cultures and people mature. There is no 'exploding entitlement spending'... America's social safety net more closely resembles Mexico than any other industrialized nation. Debt falls squarely on Reagan who switched our government from tax and spend to borrow and spend. It took all the Presidents who preceded Reagan 200 years to accumulate one trillion dollars of debt. It took Reagan only 5 YEARS to accumulate the second trillion. There is no government take of healthcare. Did we get single payer? Did we even get a public option? We have a corporate takeover of healthcare. As a matter of FACT, we have Republican and Heritage Foundation healthcare.

OK,. you really are an idiot. The truth is 180 degrees from what you wrote.

 

[HorsemaskWarlord]

IMO someone in the "middle" does not follow lockstep with ideology associated with either extreme , whatever extreme is ??

is it possible to be

anti- abortion, but pro- gay marriage
pro - pot legalization but tough on crime
pro -union but against illegal immigration
atheist but believe that a manger scene hurts no one

some of the issues are personal and defy a label on way or another.

When I consider some issues I can not take a strong stance one way or another. I take those "political spectrum" tests and always get 1 click to the right and 1 click libertarian

shrugs

I think those are probably good examples of a centrist, meaning you agree with the left and right on different things while most on the left or right agree with most left or right issues. So it depends on the individual on the particular issues, and as such, there is no such thing as a center belief and no such thing as "the" center.

Agreed, the "center" is just the group of people who don't "choose sides", not that they're in the middle on issues.

.

I identify myself as a centrist, and I also agree.

 

[Mac1958]

IMO someone in the "middle" does not follow lockstep with ideology associated with either extreme , whatever extreme is ??

is it possible to be

anti- abortion, but pro- gay marriage
pro - pot legalization but tough on crime
pro -union but against illegal immigration
atheist but believe that a manger scene hurts no one

some of the issues are personal and defy a label on way or another.

When I consider some issues I can not take a strong stance one way or another. I take those "political spectrum" tests and always get 1 click to the right and 1 click libertarian

shrugs

I think those are probably good examples of a centrist, meaning you agree with the left and right on different things while most on the left or right agree with most left or right issues. So it depends on the individual on the particular issues, and as such, there is no such thing as a center belief and no such thing as "the" center.

Agreed, the "center" is just the group of people who don't "choose sides", not that they're in the middle on issues.

.

I identify myself as a centrist, and I also agree.

My guess is that what some of the wingers (both ends) do is try to paint centrists as not having opinions, as being "squishy", all that, because they want everyone to choose "sides" to keep everything nice and easy.

The biggest enemy of a partisan ideologue is not a partisan ideologue from the other "side", they're easy. The biggest enemy of a partisan ideologue is someone who chooses to think for themselves.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

Gay marriage and pot legalization are examples of how cultures and people mature.

...because we have such a historic track record of mankind doing it? Or because it's what you like so you consider it maturing. Gay marriage is an insult to what marriage has always been, a denial of role of genders in man's life (and all mammals) forced onto us by a minority. Pot makes you dull witted, those that know potheads know it. That isn't maturing, it's going over a cliff, a societal unraveling.

There is no 'exploding entitlement spending'... America's social safety net more closely resembles Mexico than any other industrialized nation.

Wrong, we are spending an increasing amount on entitlements. Facts are your enemy.

Debt falls squarely on Reagan who switched our government from tax and spend to borrow and spend. It took all the Presidents who preceded Reagan 200 years to accumulate one trillion dollars of debt. It took Reagan only 5 YEARS to accumulate the second trillion. There is no government take of healthcare. Did we get single payer? Did we even get a public option? We have a corporate takeover of healthcare. As a matter of FACT, we have Republican and Heritage Foundation healthcare.

obamacare is a corporate takeover? Who was providing it before, the government? Reagan is responsible for 18 trillion in debt? LOL, you're a fucking retard.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The preoccupation with partisans on the Left and the Right is telling everyone what they want to believe about the other. Liberals will tell you that the Right is composed of Bible Thumping anti-science mouth breathers who are here to retard the social concept, rape the poor and the middle class in the economic concept and bloody up the world in the global concept.

Meanwhile, ask a Conservative and he will tell you that Linerals are composed of aethistic, big government supporting, wealth re-distributing, limp wristed who would destroy job creators, punish those with great wealth for their success, and kow tow to every tin horned mullah or dictator.

But what about THE MIDDLE?

Another third of America does not buy fully into either political camp. What would a Conservative tell us what constitutes "the middle"? Where's the middle road on tax reform? On immigration? On the government's role in the economy, on social services?

Where would a Liberal's attitude be on the middle ground on marriage equality, on gun control, on environmental policy?

We already know all the adjectives, accusations, and admonitions Liberals throw at Conservatives and vice versa so bag it. Let's talk about the Midddle first, then tear each other limb from limb.

Maybe by clearly defining the Middle, we could stumble onto common ground.

The Center stood silently and stupidly on the tracks, and was run over by the Northbound and Southbound trains.

 

[Katzndogz]

The center is where the vast majority of America is. Living and working every day. Doing what they have to do.

Ted Cruz read some Dr. Suess? Irrelevant. Obama went golfing? Irrelevant. John Boehner cried? Irrelevant. Hillary asked what difference it makes? Irrelevant.

But if you fuck decide to fuck them... start a bunch of wars; mess with their healthcare; demonize some minorities; weaken their union... then you'll hear from them and it won't be pretty.

It's never pretty. The barbarians have to be put down.

 

[squeeze berry]

some of the most fruitless and bitter arguments have been with some of my fellow RWers

just will not listen to reason and I am disappointed. I'm accustomed to LWers not listening to reason.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

some of the most fruitless and bitter arguments have been with some of my fellow RWers

just will not listen to reason and I am disappointed. I'm accustomed to LWers not listening to reason.

Americans are as dumb as dog shit. How long before you let that sink in?

 

[B. Kidd]

In a real civil war, the middle are referred to as refugees.

 

[MeBelle]

The preoccupation with partisans on the Left and the Right is telling everyone what they want to believe about the other. Liberals will tell you that the Right is composed of Bible Thumping anti-science mouth breathers who are here to retard the social concept, rape the poor and the middle class in the economic concept and bloody up the world in the global concept.

Meanwhile, ask a Conservative and he will tell you that Linerals are composed of aethistic, big government supporting, wealth re-distributing, limp wristed who would destroy job creators, punish those with great wealth for their success, and kow tow to every tin horned mullah or dictator.

But what about THE MIDDLE?

.

Snip*

I would wager most of the middle is fiscally conservative and liberally social.

BUT~

The middle remains undefined because their 'platform' (for lack of a better word) varies so much in both fiscal and social issues.

Happy New Year!!

I agree with this caveat, the middle is socially liberal and fiscally RESPONSIBLE.

Then what's their platform?

 

[Disir]

The preoccupation with partisans on the Left and the Right is telling everyone what they want to believe about the other. Liberals will tell you that the Right is composed of Bible Thumping anti-science mouth breathers who are here to retard the social concept, rape the poor and the middle class in the economic concept and bloody up the world in the global concept.

Meanwhile, ask a Conservative and he will tell you that Linerals are composed of aethistic, big government supporting, wealth re-distributing, limp wristed who would destroy job creators, punish those with great wealth for their success, and kow tow to every tin horned mullah or dictator.

But what about THE MIDDLE?

Another third of America does not buy fully into either political camp. What would a Conservative tell us what constitutes "the middle"? Where's the middle road on tax reform? On immigration? On the government's role in the economy, on social services?

Where would a Liberal's attitude be on the middle ground on marriage equality, on gun control, on environmental policy?

We already know all the adjectives, accusations, and admonitions Liberals throw at Conservatives and vice versa so bag it. Let's talk about the Midddle first, then tear each other limb from limb.

Maybe by clearly defining the Middle, we could stumble onto common ground.

I know that I am going to be an oddball here but the middle is simply the negotiation where we arrive for any piece of legislation. Not a clearly defined space. Those that have advertised themselves as middle are very much right of center. This indicates that the center is simply BS terminology that is there for exploitation. It's a selling point. Therefore, there is no platform so to speak and there shouldn't be.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The preoccupation with partisans on the Left and the Right is telling everyone what they want to believe about the other. Liberals will tell you that the Right is composed of Bible Thumping anti-science mouth breathers who are here to retard the social concept, rape the poor and the middle class in the economic concept and bloody up the world in the global concept.

Meanwhile, ask a Conservative and he will tell you that Linerals are composed of aethistic, big government supporting, wealth re-distributing, limp wristed who would destroy job creators, punish those with great wealth for their success, and kow tow to every tin horned mullah or dictator.

But what about THE MIDDLE?

.

Snip*

I would wager most of the middle is fiscally conservative and liberally social.

BUT~

The middle remains undefined because their 'platform' (for lack of a better word) varies so much in both fiscal and social issues.

Happy New Year!!

I agree with this caveat, the middle is socially liberal and fiscally RESPONSIBLE.

Then what's their platform?

That ^^^ is an interesting question.

From my perspective, biased as it is, I would say the middle expects government to continue as it has operated for the past two + centuries, and not go back to the days before Marbury v. Madison. Most reject President Reagan's remarks about government getting in the way, and they support Social Security, Medicare and the like as well as regulations which protect our soil, air and water, and the agencies which provide oversight of industries which create bi-products which pollute the environment with reasonable regulations.

The middle expects their tax dollars to be used judiciously, and not squandered on frivolous things, something defined by each and framed by their education and experiences; most practice, and expect the government to exercise, responsible fiscal policies - a stitch in time saves nine makes sense to the middle, and thus most support the repair, renewal and replacement of our roads, bridges, electrical grid, levees, dams, water, sewage and transportation systems. All of which benefits commerce and each of us individually.

Most understand that coal and oil are necessary but research into renewable and green sources are also. Most still fear Nuclear, a fear greatly magnified by the Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami.

Most believe the Federal Government has a duty to provide for the common defense, but not limited to the invasion by foreign armies. They support aid to regions effected by natural disasters and means to prevent or mitigate such damage before the event; support the CDC and its efforts to proactively protect the population from infectious disease.

And, of course, I believe the Preamble to our Constitution is both a mission statement and a vision statement given us by the Founders as a guide post for the future.

 

[Freemason9]

As someone who has been around since Harry Truman was in the White House, I can tell you that what was once the middle is now much farther right, NOT left.

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

Oh yeah sure, gay marriage, legalized pot, exploding entitlement spending, debt piled up too the moon, federal takeover of our health care, etc., we're marching steadily to the right!

LOL

You forgot to mention abolition of labor unions, destruction of the progressive income tax code, deregulation of finance industies, monopolistic business policies, and exportation of jobs. You may have chosen not to speak of those things because they are hallmarks of the move to the right.

 

[Freemason9]

Steinbeck pointed out in "The Grapes of Wrath" that authoritarian regimes seek to polarize the public ("left" vs. "right") to prevent the citizens from forming a united front against the aristocracy. For that reason, I consider extreme partisans as mere stooges.

 

[Avorysuds]

List the differences about Republicans and Democrats, then list the similarities... Then realize we don't have a right and a left, we only have a singular party that disagrees on the things that just don't make much of a difference.

From wars to bailouts, from corruption to over regulation Dems and Reps are the same..

But oh fuck me there is a fight about if gays should be allowed to get married, or if we need a new tax for the unproven global warming~!!!!!~!~!~~!!!

 

[Iceweasel]

As someone who has been around since Harry Truman was in the White House, I can tell you that what was once the middle is now much farther right, NOT left.

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

Oh yeah sure, gay marriage, legalized pot, exploding entitlement spending, debt piled up too the moon, federal takeover of our health care, etc., we're marching steadily to the right!

LOL

You forgot to mention abolition of labor unions, destruction of the progressive income tax code, deregulation of finance industies, monopolistic business policies, and exportation of jobs. You may have chosen not to speak of those things because they are hallmarks of the move to the right.

I didn't forget those at all, only a retard believes it's the right's fault or even a move to the right. The left has always been in bed with big business, the further left we go the less competition we have. The conservative right is for free market capitalism, not government/crony/fascist capitalism.

Businesses choose to not have unions, not "the right". The rich pay a disproportionate amount of the tax collected, if it still isn't enough for you, tough shit, but the Dems were in power a long time, again, not the right's fault. The right doesn't create monopolistic businesses but many of them are married to the left and have a cozy relationship with Dems in office, including obama.

 

[Wry Catcher]

As someone who has been around since Harry Truman was in the White House, I can tell you that what was once the middle is now much farther right, NOT left.

“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

Oh yeah sure, gay marriage, legalized pot, exploding entitlement spending, debt piled up too the moon, federal takeover of our health care, etc., we're marching steadily to the right!

LOL

You forgot to mention abolition of labor unions, destruction of the progressive income tax code, deregulation of finance industies, monopolistic business policies, and exportation of jobs. You may have chosen not to speak of those things because they are hallmarks of the move to the right.

I didn't forget those at all, only a retard believes it's the right's fault or even a move to the right. The left has always been in bed with big business, the further left we go the less competition we have. The conservative right is for free market capitalism, not government/crony/fascist capitalism.

Businesses choose to not have unions, not "the right". The rich pay a disproportionate amount of the tax collected, if it still isn't enough for you, tough shit, but the Dems were in power a long time, again, not the right's fault. The right doesn't create monopolistic businesses but many of them are married to the left and have a cozy relationship with Dems in office, including obama.

What is meant is the Crazy New Right, people like you!

 

[hortysir]

In my town it's next to the Salvation Army