Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[hobelim]

Simon Magus - is that you again?

No.

They called me a sinner, a glutton and a drunk. So you were around at the time of Simon Magus?

Is that you legion? Long time no see?

Still running with the swine stampeding off a cliff breaking your bones on the rocks below? Wow.

Thats a shame.

 

[hobelim]

I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet.

The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again. Apparently you can't dig it. Thats a damn shame. You gringo bastard.

 

[Ace Nova]

No.

They called me a sinner, a glutton and a drunk. So you were around at the time of Simon Magus?

Is that you legion? Long time no see?

Still running with the swine stampeding off a cliff breaking your bones on the rocks below? Wow.

Thats a shame.

I never called you that.

No, not Legion.

 

[Ace Nova]

The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again. Apparently you can't dig it. Thats a shame. You gringo bastard.

The man "who found it" were the Prophets - and Jesus Christ - it was "buried again" when they killed them.

That said - it's been uncovered by millions - billions - of people - through faith. It's revealed in the light they shine on the world - and buried again by the darkness most others choose.

John 3:

“No one has gone up to heaven
except the one who descended from heaven,
the Son of Man.
14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert,
so must the Son of Man be lifted up,[e]
15 in order that everyone who believes in him
may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world
that he gave his only Son,
so that everyone who believes in him
may not perish
but may attain eternal life.
17 “For God did not send his Son into the world
to condemn the world
but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
but whoever does not believe in him
already stands condemned,
because he has not believed in the name
of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 “And the judgment is this:
the light has come into the world,
but people preferred darkness to light
because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light
and avoids coming near the light
so that his misdeeds may not be exposed.
21 However, whoever lives by the truth
comes to the light
so that it may be clearly seen
that his deeds have been done
in God.”

 

[BreezeWood]

There is a theory that a "Q Document" existed as early as 30 - 40 AD:

Synoptic Gospels and the nature of Q​

[edit]
Main article: Synoptic Gospels
The relationship among the three synoptic gospels goes beyond mere similarity in viewpoint. The gospels often recount the same stories, usually in the same order, sometimes using the same words. Scholars note that the similarities among Mark, Matthew, and Luke are too great to be coincidental.[22][23]

If the two-source hypothesis is correct, then Q would probably have been a written document. If Q was a shared oral tradition, it is unlikely that it could account for the nearly identical word-for-word similarities between Matthew and Luke when quoting Q material. Similarly, it is possible to deduce that Q was written in Greek. If the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were referring to a document that had been written in some other language (such as Aramaic), it is highly unlikely that two independent translations would have exactly the same wording.[24]

The Q document must have been composed before Matthew and Luke; some scholars even suggest that Q predated Mark. A date for the final Q document is often placed in the 40s or 50s of the 1st century, with some arguing its so-called sapiential layer (1Q, containing six wisdom speeches) was written as early as the 30s.[25]

If Q existed, physical copies of it have since been lost. Some scholars, however, believe it can be partially reconstructed by examining elements common to Matthew and Luke (but absent from Mark). Versions of this reconstructed Q do not describe the events of Jesus' life: Q does not mention Jesus' birth, his selection of the 12 disciples, his crucifixion, or the resurrection. Instead, it appears to be a collection of Jesus' sayings and quotations.

Case for Q​

[edit]
The case for Q's existence follows from the argument that neither Matthew nor Luke is directly dependent on the other in the double tradition (defined by New Testament scholars as material that Matthew and Luke share that does not appear in Mark). However, the verbal agreement between Matthew and Luke is so close in some parts of the double tradition that the most reasonable explanation for this agreement is common dependence on a written source or sources. Even if Matthew and Luke are independent (see Marcan priority), the Q hypothesis states that they used a common document. Arguments for Q being a written document include:

• Sometimes the exactness in wording is striking, for example, Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13,[26] (27 and 28 Greek words respectively); Matthew 7:7–8 and Luke 11:9–10,[27] (24 Greek words each).
• There is sometimes commonality in order between the two, for example the Sermon on the Plain and Sermon on the Mount.
• The presence of doublets, where Matthew and Luke sometimes each present two versions of a similar saying but in different context, only one of those versions appearing in Mark. Doublets may be considered a sign of two written sources, i.e., Mark and Q.
• Luke mentions that he knows of other written sources of Jesus' life, and that he has investigated in order to gather the most information.[28][29]

Q source - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the appendix to the christian bible for the documents they saved to write their document ...

while you are looking maybe you can find the tablets the liar moses madeup w/ 10 commandments used in all three desert religions they claim were from the heavens - as what are those they used based on and why have they not been removed.

 

[Ace Nova]

while you are looking maybe you can find the tablets the liar moses madeup w/ 10 commandments used in all three desert religions they claim were from the heavens - as what are those they used based on and why have they not been removed.

All due respect, they are no longer "desert religions". They are the major religions of the world - Billions and Billions of devout followers.

The Ten Commandments are an evolution of "The Golden Rule" - Written for a people during the dawn of of our current civilization - to help establish the rule of law - among a people where "the rule of the wilderness" dominated.

Why? Why did the heavens send "the Deluge"? (According to you)?

So somehow - you seem to believe that mankind/creation is better off being completely destroyed - over and over again - instead of being given a set of instructions so that they have an opportunity to live under the rule of law - in an orderly society - where "good" vs "evil" has a much better chance of prevailing.

Contrary to the belief of many - "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" was first instructed in the Book of Leviticus - inspired by the Holy Spirit - written by Moses.

Leviticus 19:

17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself:


Is the Golden Rule a Lie?

 

[BreezeWood]

The Ten Commandments are an evolution of "The Golden Rule" - Written for a people during the dawn of of our current civilization - to help establish the rule of law - among a people where "the rule of the wilderness" dominated.

they are an establishment of servitude and denial written bv crucifiers and repudiated by jesus, those who gave their lives in the 1st century the 1st century events reiteration than judaism the true heavenly religion of antiquity, liberation theology, self determination as requested by a&e.

 

[Ace Nova]

they are an establishment of servitude and denial written bv crucifiers and repudiated by jesus, those who gave their lives in the 1st century the 1st century events reiteration than judaism the true heavenly religion of antiquity, liberation theology, self determination as requested by a&e.

The 10 Commandments were not established by Rome.

They were given after Moses freed his people from Slavery in Egypt. Jewish rules also established the "elimination" of "slavery" among Israelites by establishing the 7 year Law - after 7 years a slave could choose freedom or to remain with the family as a servant.

"Servitude" and slavery existed LONG BEFORE MOSES and the 10 Commandments were established. It was actually much worse - stronger tribes/nations would overtake weaker ones and either kill or enslave entire tribes/nations.

 

[BreezeWood]

The 10 Commandments were not established by Rome.

They were given ....

while you are looking maybe you can find the tablets the liar moses madeup w/ 10 commandments used in all three desert religions they claim were from the heavens -

are you disingenuous in all matters of religion ...

given by whom, where are they for verification - why are they a part of all three desert religions.

 

[ding]

The man "who found it" were the Prophets - and Jesus Christ - it was "buried again" when they killed them.

That said - it's been uncovered by millions - billions - of people - through faith. It's revealed in the light they shine on the world - and buried again by the darkness most others choose.

John 3:

“No one has gone up to heaven
except the one who descended from heaven,
the Son of Man.
14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert,
so must the Son of Man be lifted up,[e]
15 in order that everyone who believes in him
may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world
that he gave his only Son,
so that everyone who believes in him
may not perish
but may attain eternal life.
17 “For God did not send his Son into the world
to condemn the world
but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
but whoever does not believe in him
already stands condemned,
because he has not believed in the name
of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 “And the judgment is this:
the light has come into the world,
but people preferred darkness to light
because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light
and avoids coming near the light
so that his misdeeds may not be exposed.
21 However, whoever lives by the truth
comes to the light
so that it may be clearly seen
that his deeds have been done
in God.”

Hobelim is gay. He's an atheist. He's from New York. He is Jewish. He's here to grind his ax against Christians. He doesn't even believe his own arguments. He's a troll. You should feel sorry for him because he is suffering deeply. You can tell by how he lashes out at people.

 

[Ace Nova]

are you disingenuous in all matters of religion ...

given by whom, where are they for verification - why are they a part of all three desert religions.

Through faith, I believe that the Bible and the books within it are divinely inspired. The Holy Spirit spoke through the Prophets - which would later be fulfilled by the ministry of Jesus Christ, his cousin John The Baptist and The Apostles.

You call Moses a Liar but yet you quote and believe the story of Adam & Eve,which was taken from Genesis - a book authored by Moses.

Then you go onto say that the Jesus most follow was somehow a made up figure - but you quote and believe in many of the passages of the New Testament. Why is that?


Now I've stated this before - The Jesus Christ of the Bible is Jesus Christ to Christians - regardless of whether or not you or anyone else feels that there was a "different Jesus with different teachings".

The ministry of Jesus - THE WORDS written - the faith of the people who believe and follow - along with 2000 years of persecution is what makes up THE ONLY BODY OF CHRIST THAT HAS EVER EXISTED FOR THE FAITHFUL.

2000 years later and some people still do not understand - All the miracles, the healing the words made flesh - were made possible by the faith of the people - Jesus was simply a mediator between the people and God.

Mark 10:

46 Jesus Heals a Blind Man.[i] Then they came to Jericho. And as Jesus, his disciples, and a huge crowd were leaving Jericho, a blind man, Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus,[j] was sitting by the roadside asking for alms. 47 When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to shout, “Jesus, Son of David, have pity on me!” 48 Many rebuked him and told him to be silent, but he only shouted all the louder, “Son of David, have pity on me!”

(His true faith is the reason he refuted the rebukes and shouted louder than those trying to silence him).

49 Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” So they called the blind man, saying to him, “Take heart! Stand up! He is calling you!” 50 Casting aside his cloak, he jumped up and went to Jesus. 51 Then Jesus said to him, “What do you want me to do for you?” The blind man said to him, “Rabbi,[k] let me receive my sight.”

52 Jesus said to him, “Go on your way! Your faith has made you well.” Immediately, he received his sight and followed him along the road.


This is how Jesus taught "Self Determination" - he would lift others up and repeatedly would tell his followers that "It was their faith" (Not him) that makes them well. Faith in God AND faith in themselves.

Jesus' entire ministry is based on "Liberation Theology" - He was a champion for the poor and oppressed. "He did not come for the righteous, but for sinners" Why? To "Liberate Them" from their oppressed state - both physically and spiritually. Not only did Jesus want to "Liberate them" his teachings would allow "sinners, outcasts, the oppressed, the poor - to even surpass the righteousness of the "Righteous". IF They followed his teachings.

He taught his followers to "think for themselves" - and he did it knowing it would likely cause major issues with the religious leaders of the time:

10 Clean and Unclean.[b] Then he called the people to him and said to them, “Listen and understand. 11 It is not what goes into one’s mouth that defiles a person; what comes out of the mouth is what defiles him.”

(Self Determination - becoming self aware that your words and thoughts can make you 'unclean")

12 The disciples approached and said to him, “Do you realize that the Pharisees were greatly offended when they heard what you said?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Leave them alone. They are blind guides. And if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a pit.”

(Think for yourselves - do not follow blind guides)

15 Peter said to him, “Explain that parable to us.” 16 Jesus replied, “Are even you still without understanding? 17 Do you not realize that whatever goes into the mouth passes through the stomach and is discharged into the sewer? 18 But what comes out of the mouth originates in the heart, and this is what defiles a person.


The 4 Gospels - the actual words of Jesus - repeatedly teach both Self Determination (Through faith) and Liberation Theology through Spirituality.

 

[BreezeWood]

Through faith, I believe that the Bible and the books within it are divinely inspired.

faith is only as valid as its fulfillment ...

yours is lacking you have no objectivity for your claims as an abundance of recorded history and the events of the 1st century prove.

 

[Ace Nova]

faith is only as valid as its fulfillment ...

View attachment 1035310

yours is lacking you have no objectivity for your claims as an abundance of recorded history and the events of the 1st century prove.

I won't give you detailed responses that answer your questions anymore because no matter what is written your stuborness blocks you from seeing and understanding the truth.

What is that picture that you posted? Care to explain?

 

[Ace Nova]

faith is only as valid as its fulfillment ...

View attachment 1035310

yours is lacking you have no objectivity for your claims as an abundance of recorded history and the events of the 1st century prove.

The "proof" is the "Teachings" and "The way" as taught in the Bible, were strong enough to create the largest single religion in history.- having well over 3 BILLION followers - and currently over 2.4 Billion Worldwide. That is no accident and NO false God nor false faith could ever achieve anything of the sort.

That is your proof.

 

[BreezeWood]

What is that picture that you posted? Care to explain?

a snapshot -

the trials and tribulations of christianity throughout history, the desert religions ...

the denial of christians for their history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - ace. the false commandments of the liar moses, hereditary idolatry of abraham the christian bible written by the crucifiers without reference for the reason those that gave their lives for their beliefs, liberation theology, self determination.

 

[Ace Nova]

a snapshot -

View attachment 1035552

the trials and tribulations of christianity throughout history, the desert religions ...

the denial of christians for their history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - ace. the false commandments of the liar moses, hereditary idolatry of abraham the christian bible written by the crucifiers without reference for the reason those that gave their lives for their beliefs, liberation theology, self determination.

Moses is credited for writing at least 6 books of the Old Testament - was either a genius, with Wisdom that far exceeded any known human being at the time - OR he likely had help from divine sources.

It's simple - maybe you don't have access to some of the ancient texts but almost all of them were written in a very basic grade school level format. It wasn't until the Books of Moses that mankind received texts worthy to be called Divine.

The only comparison would be Ancient Egyptian Hierorglyphics (Artistically inspirational) and their "Books of the Dead" are worthy sources - but in terms of overall content and wisdom, nothing compares to the Books of Moses - especially for the time period - oral history dating as far back as 1400 BC.

So whether or not you believe they were from what you believe God to be is irrelevant. The fact that the Books of Moses helped establish early civilizations and are still regarded as the primary source of all 3 Abrahamic religions speaks for itself.

See, you have it all wrong and have been wrong since the beginning. IT'S YOU OR GOD that needs to "Prove" that Moses was a liar and that his books did not come from God - NOT the other way around - because 3 BILLION PEOPLE SAY OTHERWISE.

Faith, my friend, is a very powerful thing - and faith itself is a catalyst between mankind and the divine.

 

[BreezeWood]

Moses is credited for writing at least 6 books of the Old Testament - was either a genius, with Wisdom that far exceeded any known human being at the time - OR he likely had help from divine sources.

provide the tablets etched in the heavens claimed by the liar moses or remove the false commandments from all three desert religions ...

the jewish claims for the garden of eden is repudiated by jesus and those others who gave their lives, the 1st century events for the original religion of antiquity granted a&e as their goal to be accomplished to receive judgement and admission to the everlasting as equals to those already there as is their request at that time.

 

[Ace Nova]

provide the tablets etched in the heavens claimed by the liar moses or remove the false commandments from all three desert religions ...

the jewish claims for the garden of eden is repudiated by jesus and those others who gave their lives, the 1st century events for the original religion of antiquity granted a&e as their goal to be accomplished to receive judgement and admission to the everlasting as equals to those already there as is their request at that time.

The faith of 3 Billion plus - over the course of 3000 years is more than enough evidence. In a court of law, that would be "Beyond Any Reasonable Doubt"

Now it's your turn. Provide proof of your claims that Adam and Eve were a science experiment - created by deities "In the Heavens" and sent on Earth just to see if "They could pass the test"

And then went on to deny Judaism - even though Judaism (As a religion) DID NOT EXIST at the time.

And lastly, Provide Proof that any of the 3 Billion plus once absolved from their Earthly misdeeds will not be able to abide by a simple 6 word religion - when by your own words, they had to follow a religion made up of thousands of pages of texts.

If anything, their faith and works on Earth are the equivalent of the best preparatory school in the Universe. They should be able to handle 6 words.

 

[BreezeWood]

once absolved from their Earthly misdeeds will not be able to abide by a simple 6 word religion -

you write senseless, dishonest posts unrelated to current subject matters -

being's can not be absolved of sins without fulfilling the requirement for admission to the everlasting the heavenly goal, religion of antiquity granted a&e as their request for that purpose.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you write senseless, dishonest posts unrelated to current subject matters -

being's can not be absolved of sins without fulfilling the requirement for admission to the everlasting the heavenly goal, religion of antiquity granted a&e as their request for that purpose.

Anyone that denies Jesus is lost.