Zone1 When Was The Very First Bible Published?

[fncceo]

In truth, I suspect when we meet in Heaven,

My faith holds that the righteous gentile has a place in the world to come but ...

... they get a room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity.

 

[Foxfyre]

My faith holds that the righteous gentile has a place in the world to come but ...

... they get a room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity.

LOL. Okay. Or who knows. Maybe you'll be in one of those rooms for those who think they're the only ones on your floor.

At any rate I'm glad it's God's call. I figure He'll figure it out better than any of us could.

 

[Stann]

I certainly could have but it all depends on how you translate the question. The OP put it into the last hundred years or so. I know that widespread knowledge of the classical literature of the Bible, commentaries, Christian thought was not available to any but a very small few until the printing press made it available to many, the Reformation freed people to be able to interpret it all for themselves, and the Renaissance restored critical thinking and expansion of thinking in most of developed world at that time.

I honestly don't know what Jesus thought of religion as he never addressed that. I know he practiced at least some of the Jewish traditions that he was brought up in such as the Passover meal, but there is nothing in the Bible suggesting this is required of believers. For Him it was not a set of rules and rituals but critical thinking, common sense, and a relationship with Him, the living God, that he emphasized.

Human beings are pack animals and creatures of customs and traditions though, so it was no time at all that remnants the old Jewish traditions and/or Pagan traditions, festivals, customs were transformed and adapted into Christian ones. And by the end of Jesus' century, new Christian manuscripts had been written for use in the Christian congregations as well as copies of Paul's letters to the churches.

By the second and third centuries there were disagreements in what was required for Christian piety, obedience, celebration, salvation, even what languages should be used, and schisms were developing. Nevertheless, like the Jews before them, the Christians were skilled at organization structures and holding things together despite pockets of terrible persecution, and by the fourth century, Constantine, Emperor of Rome, recognized and wanted to harness that, made the Church legal and favored in the Empire, and the rest is as they say, history.

Jesus did not want to found a new religion. In his historical humanity, Jesus was a devout Israelite, practicing the law to the full, from circumcision to Pesach; paying the half-shekel for the Temple. Jerusalem, the Capitol of his nation, was the city he loved ! Jesus wept over it. Jesus had spiritually realized the germinal aspiration of the people, which was to raise the God of Israel.

 

[Stann]

My faith holds that the righteous gentile has a place in the world to come but ...

... they get a room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity.

Humor, thank you. Jesus did believe his people were the chosen by god.

 

[JohnDB]

really ...



interesting when they only began compiling the c-bible in the 1st quarter of the 4th century that lasted that entie century till completion. the state religion of the roman empire.

The only book added was the book of Jude....it was a previously unknown writing that hadn't circulated because of its remote location. All of the other books and letters had been widely circulated up to this point....including the "lost" letters of Paul that haven't really ever been lost. But the Bible we have today (Except for the letter of Jude) are the same as the oldest manuscripts that are still intact. (Codex Siainiticus)

Which is pretty remarkable.

Not to mention the many many references in other writings. So many references that we could actually rebuild the entire Bible completely just from the scraps of selections referenced in other letters and books and commentaries from that era alone.

It is believed that a complete Bible was in existence by 100AD (some believe earlier than that but then it becomes a Theological debate and I'm not here for that)

 

[expat_panama]

Mostly the hierarchy of the middle ages was to use the people for the advancement of the power, wealth, and influence of the Monarchy and the Church at the highest levels. And it was in the interest of that hierarchy to keep the people ignorant and compliant less they be excommunicated and damned. Which is why from Constantine's time, and for many centuries following, the Church and the Monarchy functioned pretty much as one ruling entity.

The Reformation followed by the Renaissance broke the absolute hold on the people and education became fashionable again. And the people did begin to learn to read, figure out things and make choices for themselves. Which would culminate in a new understanding of and desire for freedom and self determination, and eventually the creation of the USA that set a whole new standard for what good government should be.

As the world turns nothing stays the same except old soap operas.

Maybe we got a conflict of basic assumptions. I see the world, reality, people as being good. I want to work with all 3 and I am not at war w/ any of them. I gather that you have a different opinion and that would make our discussion futile.

 

[expat_panama]

Conquer ( and control ) by indoctrination. You talk as if the governments were free in any way. Remember the church was all powerful and you know what they say about absolute power. It corrupts absolutely.

Maybe we got a conflict of basic assumptions. I see the world, reality, people as being good. I want to work with all 3 and I am not at war w/ any of them. I gather that you have a different opinion and that would make our discussion futile.

 

[BreezeWood]

Maybe because they couldn't agree on one. At one point, there were over 100 gospels, acts, epistles, and other various writings dedicated to the history of Jesus, his life, and the lives of his family and apostles. Most of which today are considered non-canonical.

But, as I said, I don't consider the "New" testament to be a bible.

But, as I said, I don't consider the "New" testament to be a bible.

as though the jews would have a say in the matter ... or those that wrote the recording 400 years latter.

the true events, the cause for jesus's demise, liberation theology, self determination than those of lies and degradation.

 

[Stann]

Maybe we got a conflict of basic assumptions. I see the world, reality, people as being good. I want to work with all 3 and I am not at war w/ any of them. I gather that you have a different opinion and that would make our discussion futile.

Religion is the biggest lie on this planet, it is akin to tribalism, another tradition best forgotten, if we are to have a future at all. We cannot keep pitting people against people and expect anything else.

 

[BreezeWood]

The only book added was the book of Jude....it was a previously unknown writing that hadn't circulated because of its remote location. All of the other books and letters had been widely circulated up to this point....including the "lost" letters of Paul that haven't really ever been lost. But the Bible we have today (Except for the letter of Jude) are the same as the oldest manuscripts that are still intact. (Codex Siainiticus)

Which is pretty remarkable.

Not to mention the many many references in other writings. So many references that we could actually rebuild the entire Bible completely just from the scraps of selections referenced in other letters and books and commentaries from that era alone.

It is believed that a complete Bible was in existence by 100AD (some believe earlier than that but then it becomes a Theological debate and I'm not here for that)

and that took close to 100 years to include ...

there are no references from other writings, there is not an archive of the material used - there is not even the original c-bile in existence - the state religion of the roman empire.

written by those complicit in the persecution and victimization of those in the 1st century who knew better and who contributed nothing to the 4th century c-bible.

nor included a single word written by jesus as the same pretext for their demise they knowingly knew and would have included were they to trust the document that would evolve than the truth of their intent for what they were willing to die for.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus did not want to found a new religion. In his historical humanity, Jesus was a devout Israelite, practicing the law to the full, from circumcision to Pesach; paying the half-shekel for the Temple. Jerusalem, the Capitol of his nation, was the city he loved ! Jesus wept over it. Jesus had spiritually realized the germinal aspiration of the people, which was to raise the God of Israel.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe we got a conflict of basic assumptions. I see the world, reality, people as being good. I want to work with all 3 and I am not at war w/ any of them. I gather that you have a different opinion and that would make our discussion futile.

I have not commented on anybody being good or evil in this discussion and I think it is God's prerogative to judge the status of a person's soul. I am not at war with any either, but neither do I pretend the history is not what it is and fully acknowledge the bad as well as the good within the early Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant denominations. To pick and choose what history is applicable--whether one focuses on the positive or the negative--is to miss all the many terrible and amazing circumstances that culminated in the people we are now. That is true of our individual state histories, U.S. history, world history, religious history, the history of development of Christian thought. (The latter has been the focus of many years of my personal research.)

 

[zaangalewa]

The first published Bible was the Gutenberg Bible printed in 1455. 180 copies were printed, most on paper, some on a writing surface made of calfskin. I think there are something like 48 of these Bibles still in existence and some of those are fragments of the original.

Gutenberg also invented the printing press with the first operational one put to use in 1440. This was the catalyst of the Renaissance as for the first time most people were able to read classical literature like the Bible for themselves without having to go through an intermediary who too often 'edited' the contents.

The Renaissance freed minds making the Reformation possible in the 16th Century changing the traditions of Christianity, even in the Roman Catholic Church, forever.

Trivia: It is estimated that a Gutenberg Bible would sell for more than $5 million today.

It existed bibles a long time ago - most famous of this all is the bible from bishop Wulfila - written in the Gothic language. The letters had been made in silver - and sometimes also in gold if I remember well - the pages had been colored in purple. All this had been attributes of the highest thinkable authority.

In this context it is by the a very fascinating what Saint Francis suggested to his own monks when a poor woman begged and they had nothing to give her. He suggested to them to give her the only bible they had - an unbelievable worthful book - "because it is better to give the bible away instead not to do what's written in". But his "scepticals" (people who think they have only a little faith and not a great faith) did not like to do so. They liked to know what's written in the bible - what means on the other side also somehow they did not trust in god to be able to lead them without bible. But no one should forget: In the end we will leave this planet naked - also without bible - but hopefully always with [the grace of] god.

 

[zaangalewa]

200 BCE ... and even older versions of The Torah are known to have existed.

View attachment 749641

What's written on this paper?

 

[zaangalewa]

My faith holds that the righteous gentile has a place in the world to come but ...

... they get a room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity.

You are right: Human beings like you are idiots or idiots - specially when they speak "Angel" ... ah sorry: "English" = the German dialect of the Angeln. No wonder that "communication" is a word with Latin roots.

 

[zaangalewa]

Only to make something clear here: The bible is not really a book. It is a summary of books. It is "the book of the books". Practically it is only a table of contents. Perhaps also an index. It was made to authorize writings for all Christians with the brand "original Christian book". What doesn't mean what's in the bible are the only Christian and/or Jewish book in this context - or in this other books are only written wrong things. The reason why the bible was made was to avoid and to minimize misunderstandings. At this moment of history the Christian religion was about 300-350 years old and had existed before without bible - but not without the writings which are in the bible.

 

[zaangalewa]

Religion is the biggest lie on this planet ...

Religious people believe in god and or other forms of spiritualism. Atheists believe that god and/or gods are not existing.

The common element between monontheists and atheists is: Gods are not existing.

In context of god it is impossible for Christians (and other monotheists) to say whether god exists or not exists. Reason: God is creator and what exists is creation. So Christians say normally "I believe in god" - whats means "I don't know but I trust". Christians speak about a "meta-"existence of god which is on the other side also able to become real in this world here. In a picture: One moment god seems not to exist - the other moment god seems to exist.

Atheists say "God not exists". How are atheists able to say so although it is only their belief to say so?

 

[expat_panama]

Religion is the biggest lie on this planet, it is akin to tribalism, another tradition best forgotten, if we are to have a future at all. We cannot keep pitting people against people and expect anything else.

You didn't tell me if you shared my assumptions --like whether people are good or not, and my take is that otoh u seem to care about the well-being of humankind and then u turn right around and condemn what people do. Thomas Paine said that to argue w/ someone who holds humanity in contempt is like giving medicine to the dead.

People do 3 basic things, they form governments, they trade, and they form religions. Understand that I'm not talking about God --that's a theological sticking point that not all religions go w/. Virtually all of humankind gathers and works together on an understanding of good/bad, right/wrong, and true/false. Most humans go further and consider the essence of all that's good, right and true to be supremely worthy and many call that God.

Yet you call that a lie. If you want to talk about and expand I'm willing to listen some.

 

[expat_panama]

I have not commented on anybody being good or evil in this discussion...

My first inclination was to mention that I never commented on whether u commented on anybody being good or evil, but then you'd probably have tell me that you never commented on whether I commented on if you commented on-- This is getting a bit silly. We need to get back to the Planted Earth.

...and I think it is God's prerogative to judge the status of a person's soul. I am not at war with any either, but neither do I pretend the history is not what it is and fully acknowledge the bad as well as the good within the early Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant denominations. To pick and choose what history is applicable--whether one focuses on the positive or the negative--is to miss all the many terrible and amazing circumstances that culminated in the people we are now. That is true of our individual state histories, U.S. history, world history, religious history, the history of development of Christian thought. (The latter has been the focus of many years of my personal research.)

OK, I will comment again that I think the vast majority of people are good and that in general people are doing well, better than before. (You don't have to mention that you haven't commented on this before.) It's also my take that it's more healthy to focus on the good and positive, we should not dwell on the evil and bad. Let's get into a disscussion of what we want and not what we don't want.

We were talking about the middle ages. What I see is that humanity is doing better than we did in the middle ages, but that era back then was an improvement over what we had a thousand years earlier. Improvement is a good thing. Let's work w/ that.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I personally subscribe to beliefs of some of the Gnostics.
In that, the Bible is not nearly as relevant or important as Christianity places it.
The only thing that matters is your personal actions, how you led your own life and your own personal relationship with God. PERIOD.
Jesus left no instructions. Nothing. Remarkably odd. But did not. So after he left - an army of men seeking personal gain went about to set up churches all over the place. Each one claiming to be the expert on what people need to do to gain Gods grace.

Long story short, the Bible is not a book at all. It is a heavily edited tiny collection of writings written by only a handful of people. It is not ordained by God. It is not the word of God. It is the word of mostly completely unknown people whose biggest motive was to set themselves up to live like kings and control the masses. Not really a debatable point.