When SHTF, which of these weapons would you choose?

[WinterBorn]

If you want to plan for when the SHTF (or TEOTWAWKI), you want to select weapons you can readily find ammo for, that you shoot well, and that will hold up under adverse conditions.

It won't take military style hardware to turn scavengers away.

It's not the scavengers you would have to worry about.
You think the gang problem is bad now? There are plenty of would be murderers,rapist and robbers out there right now who would like nothing more then to have free reign on society.
And they would find each other over time,forming murderous groups who would rather kill you and take your shit then work for themselves.
A SHTF situation will turn an outwardly nice guy into a killer out of necessity.

I have no doubt there would be plenty of scavengers and worse waiting to take what they want. But, unless they are starving, I doubt they would require a machinegun or a fully automatic shotgun to repel. Well placed, accurate fire would send them away quicker and with fewer numbers.

 

[shikaki]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

 

[WinterBorn]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

I do not see how that would have any bearing on taking steps to be prepared for a collapse of our society.

The discussion is academic. That could rapidly change due to a variety of reasons.

 

[shikaki]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

I do not see how that would have any bearing on taking steps to be prepared for a collapse of our society.

The discussion is academic. That could rapidly change due to a variety of reasons.

Well actually it has every bearing. The implicit message is, weapons would be used to "protect people and their stuff". The only point of a weapon is to kill. Thus the relevance. Is it idle chatter or are people understanding the message they are implying?

 

[WinterBorn]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

I do not see how that would have any bearing on taking steps to be prepared for a collapse of our society.

The discussion is academic. That could rapidly change due to a variety of reasons.

Well actually it has every bearing. The implicit message is, weapons would be used to "protect people and their stuff". The only point of a weapon is to kill. Thus the relevance. Is it idle chatter or are people understanding the message they are implying?

Given that we are discussing what tools we will use in an eventuality that has not, thankfully, happened, I think it is largely irrelevant.

I can only speak for myself, but I do not take killing a person lightly. That does not, however, mean I would not do so.

I think everyone in these discussions understands that the reason we want a firearm in the event of dire emergencies would be to take a human life.

I would wager that none of us in these discussions has found themselves in a situation that required deadly force to fend off groups of armed and desperate people seeking to kill them or take their means of survival. I would also wager that no one in these discussions has had to hunt as a sole source of meat. But that does not change the fact that, should we find ourselves in such situations, we would use our firearms to do so.

 

[earlycuyler]

Pick one firearm, and one hand to hand weapon.

My choice is the AA-12 and sabre

AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun! - YouTube

"Fantasizing about violence"?

This thread is about as "fantasy" as it gets, and it's pretty clear you've spent a lot of time fantasizing about killing your fellow Americans.



In addition to that - Am I correct in saying that you don't actually own any of the guns you've added as choices?

How do you plan on getting an AA-12, when (as you say) the shit hits the fan?

What possible situation have you come up with in your fantasies that an AA-12 would actually be useful? It's a cool-looking weapon, but that's it.

You know, I have enjoyed this thread, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about guns, so I have for the most part, stayed on the sidelines.

I am in favor of the second Amendment however.

What I don't get, is that when I went to wikipedia to find out what an M4 is, it turned out it is illegal for civilians to own. I haven't wanted to say anything, becausee, well, I guess I am just ignorant as a school boy. I did see on another forum where a guy built one out of an antique shovel, but I suppose that isn't exactly the same.

So, someone please clarify, where do you acquire such military grade hardware, legally?

U.S. civilian ownership

Sales of select-fire or full automatic M4s by Colt are restricted to military and law enforcement agencies. Only under special circumstances can a private citizen own an M4 in a select-fire or fully automatic configuration. While many machine guns can be legally owned with a proper tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 barred the transfer to private citizens of machine guns made or registered in the U.S. after May 19, 1986. The only exception was for Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT): licensed machine gun dealers with demonstration letters, manufacturers, and those dealing in exports and imports. As such, only the earliest Colt M4 prototypes built prior to May 19, 1986 would be legal to own by civilians not in the categories mentioned.[citation needed] The modular nature of the AR15 design, however, makes it a relatively simple matter to fit M4-specific components to a "pre-'86" select-fire AR15 lower receiver, producing an "M4" in all but name.

Civilian replicas of the M4 typically have 16 inch barrels (or standard 14.5 inch M4 barrels with permanently attached flash suppressors to bring the effective length to 16 inches) and are semi-automatic only to meet the legal definition of a rifle under Title I (Gun Control Act). The M4 falls under restrictions of Title II (National Firearms Act: the 14.5 inch barrel makes the M4 a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) and select fire capability (semi- or full automatic) makes the M4 a machinegun. Civilian-legal M4s are also popular with police as a patrol carbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#U.S._civilian_ownership

First off, go do an NRA safety coarse at your local shooting range. Its lots of fun, and you will leave with more knowledge then you came with. As for the knowledge you DO have, there is more then you think. I would bet you could figure it out from only what you have seen on TV and your common sense. As for civilian ownership of M4's, only full auto is regulated, and even then, a class three FFL makes it ok depending on the state your in. Full auto is over rated. As is, the M4 is not but a handy sized rifle built on the most versatile platform ever devised.

 

[earlycuyler]

I do not see how that would have any bearing on taking steps to be prepared for a collapse of our society.

The discussion is academic. That could rapidly change due to a variety of reasons.

Well actually it has every bearing. The implicit message is, weapons would be used to "protect people and their stuff". The only point of a weapon is to kill. Thus the relevance. Is it idle chatter or are people understanding the message they are implying?

Given that we are discussing what tools we will use in an eventuality that has not, thankfully, happened, I think it is largely irrelevant.

I can only speak for myself, but I do not take killing a person lightly. That does not, however, mean I would not do so.

I think everyone in these discussions understands that the reason we want a firearm in the event of dire emergencies would be to take a human life.

I would wager that none of us in these discussions has found themselves in a situation that required deadly force to fend off groups of armed and desperate people seeking to kill them or take their means of survival. I would also wager that no one in these discussions has had to hunt as a sole source of meat. But that does not change the fact that, should we find ourselves in such situations, we would use our firearms to do so.

Hunted all my life. Do so with a bow. After Ike I would shoo the $75.00 vato's off by staring over the barrel of a very old 30/30. Had they persisted they would have been killed graveyard dead period.

 

[westwall]

I suspect the OP list was taken from some video game.

If a neophyte like him did manage to come into possession of either of those full auto weapons, it wouldn't be long before they would be scavenged from his corpse.

Full auto weapons aren't really all that effective except for keeping the enemies head down. Three round burst and single fire is way more accurate.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make before. In whatever Mad Max scenario the OP is imagining, a full-auto shotgun is almost worse than useless if the roving band of rapists wearing football pads is more than 50 feet away from him.

I'd take my off-brand AR-10 over any of the ridiculous choices in the OP, should I be thrown into his post-apocalyptic fantasy.


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While I agree with you that the AA-12 is pretty pointless, never, ever think a shotgun is useless beyond 50 feet. My Benelli M1 Super 90 is exceptionally accurate with slugs out to 200 yards.

 

[westwall]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

Thankfully no, I have been in a shootout with bandits in Morocco, but we made sure not to hit any of them. That way there was no need for a vendetta. They left after it became obvious that we COULD hit them if we so chose to..

 

[westwall]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

I do not see how that would have any bearing on taking steps to be prepared for a collapse of our society.

The discussion is academic. That could rapidly change due to a variety of reasons.

Well actually it has every bearing. The implicit message is, weapons would be used to "protect people and their stuff". The only point of a weapon is to kill. Thus the relevance. Is it idle chatter or are people understanding the message they are implying?

No, you're very wrong. The point of a weapon (in a situation like this) is deterrence. If the bad guy decides to not be deterred then, and only then, does the purpose change.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I would like to know with all the chatter, has anyone in this discussion actually taken another human beings life?

Came close during a botched home invasion/robbery. I was lucky I was paying attention or it wouldnt have turned out so nice.
And they're lucky I'm a little squeamish about back shooting someone.

 

[shikaki]

No, you're very wrong. The point of a weapon (in a situation like this) is deterrence. If the bad guy decides to not be deterred then, and only then, does the purpose change.

How can you say I'm wrong, when you are changing the equation? We should agree that you just defined your perception of the equation, not sure you are speaking for everyone?

 

[WinterBorn]

How can you say I'm wrong, when you are changing the equation? We should agree that you just defined your perception of the equation, not sure you are speaking for everyone?

ok, let's say we all answer your question as to whether or not we have ever killed a human being.

And then what? How does that change the discussion we are having?

 

[shikaki]

I think to act like a tough guy, big gun, small p***, people need to put this in real perspective. Is there a reason to not think about reality? Seems as valid a point as what weapon would I would use to do "
"something" should the SHTF!!

 

[WinterBorn]

I think to act like a tough guy, big gun, small p***, people need to put this in real perspective. Is there a reason to not think about reality? Seems as valid a point as what weapon would I would use to do "
"something" should the SHTF!!

Perhaps you see someone with a gun as a "tough guy". I do not have guns to make me tough or cool, and it has nothing to do with the size of my genitalia. The suggestion that is does shows you to be petty and uninterested in the facts of the discussion. Unfortunately you will have to find another thread to boost you ego. On this one you failed miserably.

Do you think there is no chance that our society will fold up? You are absolutely sure it will continue? And that there is no chance of major collapse or disaster? If so, you are either delusional or need to be on meds.

Surviving is reality. Some people choose to rely on others to get them thru a crisis. Some have seen the folly in that.

I have fire extinguishers, but I have never had a fire in my house. The same rational applies to my preparedness for when the SHTF.

 

[shikaki]

I think to act like a tough guy, big gun, small p***, people need to put this in real perspective. Is there a reason to not think about reality? Seems as valid a point as what weapon would I would use to do "
"something" should the SHTF!!

Perhaps you see someone with a gun as a "tough guy". I do not have guns to make me tough or cool, and it has nothing to do with the size of my genitalia. The suggestion that is does shows you to be petty and uninterested in the facts of the discussion. Unfortunately you will have to find another thread to boost you ego. On this one you failed miserably.

Do you think there is no chance that our society will fold up? You are absolutely sure it will continue? And that there is no chance of major collapse or disaster? If so, you are either delusional or need to be on meds.

Surviving is reality. Some people choose to rely on others to get them thru a crisis. Some have seen the folly in that.

I have fire extinguishers, but I have never had a fire in my house. The same rational applies to my preparedness for when the SHTF.

The discussion is based on delusions of fear and insanity and I need to be on meds? WOW. When is the last time you have had to survive? This proves the point. We all sit in our privileged gated communities discussing how we will tough up when the need arises. Talk about delusional. Give me one example that our entitled society is imploding? Real examples, no nut house propaganda!!

 

[MikeK]

Presuming SHTF means a breakdown in law and order I believe close-range defensive weapons would be an individual's most logical choice. And because I believe high-capacity automatic weapons have their place I would not choose the AA-12 shotgun as a primary weapon.

While the AA-12 auto shotgun seems to be a good weapon to have on hand to repel a major frontal attack, the ordinary individual's concerns would be considerably less threatening. So my personal choices would be a pump shotgun with extended magazine and a .357 magnum revolver (I don't like automatic pistols).

 

[WinterBorn]

I think to act like a tough guy, big gun, small p***, people need to put this in real perspective. Is there a reason to not think about reality? Seems as valid a point as what weapon would I would use to do "
"something" should the SHTF!!

Perhaps you see someone with a gun as a "tough guy". I do not have guns to make me tough or cool, and it has nothing to do with the size of my genitalia. The suggestion that is does shows you to be petty and uninterested in the facts of the discussion. Unfortunately you will have to find another thread to boost you ego. On this one you failed miserably.

Do you think there is no chance that our society will fold up? You are absolutely sure it will continue? And that there is no chance of major collapse or disaster? If so, you are either delusional or need to be on meds.

Surviving is reality. Some people choose to rely on others to get them thru a crisis. Some have seen the folly in that.

I have fire extinguishers, but I have never had a fire in my house. The same rational applies to my preparedness for when the SHTF.

The discussion is based on delusions of fear and insanity and I need to be on meds? WOW. When is the last time you have had to survive? This proves the point. We all sit in our privileged gated communities discussing how we will tough up when the need arises. Talk about delusional. Give me one example that our entitled society is imploding? Real examples, no nut house propaganda!!

There are numerous examples of disasters seeing a portion of the population looting and running amok. But that is not the actual point nor is it the reason why people, like myself, take a little bit of time & money to prepare for the worst case scenario. The federal gov't apparently thinks there is sufficient reason to worry. Look at the ammunition purchases made by our own gov't agencies. THE idea that millions of rounds of hollowpoint ammunition is stockpiled by departments dedicated to domestic law enforcement speaks volumes to that worry. The ammo cannot be used by our military, and the claim that it is "training ammo" is ridiculous given the volume. (unless every member of Homeland Security will fire hundreds of rounds in "training".)

Oh, and not everyone lives in a gated community. I live in a nice house in a suburb of Atlanta. Our neighborhood is quiet, with mostly older homes, nice sidewalks and good people. But just a few blocks away are areas with high crime rates. The number of breakins and home invasions is on the rise. That many people here have a handgun is not a surprise, nor is it paranoia.

Also, the OP in this thread is ridiculously militaristic and probably started by fascination with a video game. But numerous posters in this thread have pointed that out.

I myself have noted that. I also stated that I have a pistol of a basic design from 100 years ago along with a slightly modified hunting firearm as my "go to" guns for when the SHTF.

And, as a point of fact, I do not prepare based solely on what HAS happened. If that were the case then I would not need smoke alarms or fire extinguishers in my home. The fact that I own firearms may only indicate that I hunt or target shoot as a hobby. Does that also mean I have undersized genitals? Or is it just BIG guns that mean that? My most recent firearm purchase was a .17HMR caliber rifle. This is a tiny caliber. By your logic, does that mean I have a very large penis?

What is going on here is an academic discussion about which firearms would offer the best service in the event the SHTF. IF you believe that is impossible, why bother posting here at all? If you believe it is indeed possible, why would you not prepare for it by setting aside a bit of water, food, and a means of protecting yourself?

Perhaps you believe the government has your best interests in mind?

 

[westwall]

How can you say I'm wrong, when you are changing the equation? We should agree that you just defined your perception of the equation, not sure you are speaking for everyone?

I changed nothing. The only people who go from zero to killing someone are sociopaths.
I have over 100 firearms and not one of them has ever killed anything more than paper. I would wager that the VAST majority of people who have posted in this thread are likewise.

No sane person wants to kill someone. Period.

 

[Mr. H.]

Above all else, I'd choose to keep my wits.