When Ideology become Theology

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

If you do not believe gun rights and taxes are important issues, you are not a republican. You never were one.

As for the problems of the GOP, that is the 911 crowd, and if you don't have a clue about science either, you probably still believe the official version of 911, which is completely laughable.

I didn't address gun rights.
I pointed out the silos of religious adherents within the party and their willingness to subvert their own well being to gain members in their church.

Might want to reread the OP and this time read to understand before your respond.

You do know that prior to 1994 guns were not that big a thing in GOP circles. No?
You do know that lowering taxes DOES NOT increase revenues. No?

Pretty sure you're the topic of the thread.

Gun rights became a bigger issue in 1994 because democrats started pushing more gun control. The issue was always there. It is a central part of every long term republican.

Taxes and spending go together. Reagan tried to get tax and spending cuts, but the dem controlled congress under crook Jim wright and KKK cyclops senate majority leader and Biden bestest buddy Robert Byrd, the KKKing of pork, added back massive spending.

The true concept of fiscal conservatism was only tried during Bill Clinton, because newt stuck him with those budgets, tax and spending cut budgets. What did that do? Booming economy and budget surplus.

Fiscal conservatism works.

W tried tax cuts and massive massive LBJ caliber big government spending/socialism, and that is the disaster America is yet to recover from....

W was not a conservative.

And neither are you....

My wife likes to point out to me, that Newt was able to say no, TO A PRESIDENT FROM THE OTHER PARTY.

You give republicans both Congress AND the presidency, and it seems that they cannot resist either.

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is rich, coming from the party that worships The State.

You guys in the Trump cult have no problem using the power of the state to interfere in the private affairs of citizens and corporations because culture war.

Just look at all the "conservatives" salivating over Ron DeSantis signing a law that interferes in the internal affairs of "Big Tech."

The GQP has become an authoritarian cult of personality movement steeped in grievance. It has nothing to do with libertarian values.

But I'm sure you have to keep telling yourself otherwise because cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

But how?
How did we get from Bush 41 to Trump?

BTW..I know the answer. Starts with the "Southern Strategy."

That makes no sense. IF you are a believer in the Southern Strategy conspiracy theory, then it supposedly has been part of EVERY gop platform since nixon, (at least).


So, you are just throwing out partisan shit now.


Which supports my point, that you people are so partisan that it encourages anger from us.

I've been pointing it out for years.
IT HAS been part of the GOP since 69.

AND

The people the GOP was recruiting could easily be described as DAMNED STUPID.
But the GOP winked, promised their fantasies of an all White America would be fulfilled and they could have power again...
Took a while to the late 80s for the stupid to reach critical mass
and it's been downhill into the religious morass the party is stuck in today.

Do you believe Trump won the 2020 election?
Why? What overwhelming body of evidence has convinced you?
OR
Do you believe it because Trump told you so?

Do you believe there was no Russian collusion?
Again, what mountain of evidence convinced you?
Or was it, Again, Trump telling you so while hiding the evidence?

Don't blame me for seeing what you are.
Open your eyes and see for yourself.

Errr, you made teh claim that we went from Bush to Trump, because "southern strategy".

I pointed out that that made no sense, because supposedly if you believe in that debunked Conspiracy Theory than it would have bene a constant during that entire time not the cause of a change.


Your second post, in response, made even less sense. It seems to be just a bucket of anti-GOP talking points, throw at the wall by a monkey, hoping to create some sort of negative.... spin.


Trump ran on clear and strong policies, crafted to serve the interests of working class Americans.


He got a lot of support from white members of that group.


That anyone has trouble understand that, is they being closed minded fools.

No, I didn't. I said it STARTED with the Southern Strategy.
Then it was abortion nuts
Then it was ant-science nuts starting with smoking
and on and on and on

Same recruiting methods
Same moronic targets
Same promises

53% of the GOP believes Trump won in 2020.
53%!
No evidence to support those beliefs
TONS of evidence those beliefs are wrong
YET
They cling to those beliefs because they know that real soon now
There will be a Second Coming.

Care to wager on what % of the 53% are rabid evangelicals?

Trump ran on appealing to working class Americans, a group that has been much ignored over the last few decades.

Your talk of Southern Strategy or Abortion has nothing to do with his winning the primaries, or the election.

Your need to believe that your enemies are stupid or "Rabid" is a weakness on your part.


Your anti-Christian bigotry is funny, considering the tens of millions of religious lefties that march with you on all issues.

So working class voters thing Mexicans are rapists? Drug dealers?
Don't be ignorant. Not a good look.

Trump recognized what the GOP had devolved into.
He recognized the racism, economic ignorance, narcissism and the other traits dominating the party and spoke the words publicly that the GOP has been whispering for 50 years.

To deny where the GOP was and is either ignorant or dishonest.
To deny that Trump's play was always a grift, that he never intended to win, that he had no idea how to lead and showed it every day is, again, ignorance or dishonesty.

 

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is uncharted territory for this country. The world hasn’t seen this type of adoration and devotion for one person in many decades. And it didn’t end very well back then.

I’d like to think that Jan 6 was rock bottom for these people. But watch and listen to them, and yeah, it’s like a jihad, a holy war.

And for him, of all people. Of all freakin’ people.

Whether it's Trump, Mao, Hitler or Stalin the leaders of "Cults of Personality" tend to be unpleasant.

What about MTG and the rest? Don't they remind you of the TV preachers promising to make you rich for a donation?

Sure. MTG sees the blueprint that Trump created and is absolutely running with it.

This is now much bigger than the orange buffoon.

She and the rest are the apostles in the church of Trumpology.

Like the Sunday morning preachers who will save your soul for a small donation.

Bingo. This is more than politics for them. It's a full blown lifestyle.

Indeed.

Note that not a single person has disputed the factuality of the premise.
They cussed, and damned, and whined, and cried but not a single word actually attacks the facts.

Actually I bring this up because if you observe dispassionately, this evolution is fascinating. There are nutjobs on both side and people willing to take advantage of those nuts. But this goes beyond simple nutjobs. Step back and it appears to have all the marks of the birth of a religion.
I'm sure the Jews thought the Christians were nuts and the Christians were sure the Muslims were crazy and EVERYBODY knew John Smit was a loon. So maybe in 500 years these Trumpians will begin their holy crusade to spread their teachings across the lands. Or maybe they'll have a big kool aid party just before the indictments come in. Who knows?

 

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is uncharted territory for this country. The world hasn’t seen this type of adoration and devotion for one person in many decades. And it didn’t end very well back then.

I’d like to think that Jan 6 was rock bottom for these people. But watch and listen to them, and yeah, it’s like a jihad, a holy war.

And for him, of all people. Of all freakin’ people.

Whether it's Trump, Mao, Hitler or Stalin the leaders of "Cults of Personality" tend to be unpleasant.

What about MTG and the rest? Don't they remind you of the TV preachers promising to make you rich for a donation?

Sure. MTG sees the blueprint that Trump created and is absolutely running with it.

This is now much bigger than the orange buffoon.

She and the rest are the apostles in the church of Trumpology.

Like the Sunday morning preachers who will save your soul for a small donation.

Bingo. This is more than politics for them. It's a full blown lifestyle.

Enjoying your circle jerk?

Why? You volunteering for pivot-man?

 

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is uncharted territory for this country. The world hasn’t seen this type of adoration and devotion for one person in many decades. And it didn’t end very well back then.

I’d like to think that Jan 6 was rock bottom for these people. But watch and listen to them, and yeah, it’s like a jihad, a holy war.

And for him, of all people. Of all freakin’ people.

We like "America First" Trump.
You democrats like "Russia First" Xiden. It's that simple.

You are unable to address the topic. I will ask the mods to block you if it continues.

Your OP hypothesis is bullshit. The mods would sooner move this bullshit thread than block my honest commentary.
Trump is "America First". (That's why we vote for him)
Xiden (Putin's Bitch) is "Russia First".

Why do you believe Trump is "America First?"
Would it be his selling us out to Russia?
Would it be his selling us out to Ukraine?
Would it be his billing the US government millions for his personal protection?

Or would it be
America First yes it's so
Because Lord Trump told me so

Your words do prove the thesis.

1. Trump didn't sell the US out to Russia, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who allowed Putin to modernize his military with Nord Stream 2 cash.

2. Trump didn't sell us out to Ukraine, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who used his authority to remove a Ukranian prosecutor who was investigating Burisma for corruption, and was giving Hunter Biden about $133,000 a month for a no-show job.

3. Trump didn't sell us out to China, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who used AF-2 to get Hunter Biden $1.5b in Chinese cash to "invest".

4. No clue WTF billing the US government for protection means. How about donating his salary?

5. Trump is America First. Trump allowed the KeystoneXL pipeline to proceed. Putin's Bitch stopped the KeystoneXL pipeline.

6. Your words prove democrats to be godless socialists, the way Karl Marx told you to be. Democrats prefer real opium.

Opium of the people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for proving my thesis.

1. He did. Documented.
2. He did, on tape. Or did you forget the impeachment and all the evidence Trump refused to let us see?
3. Trump's been selling you out to China for years. Weakening our ability to produce and turning farmers nto welfare queens.
4. You should read the actual news and lay off the NEWSMAX crap load.
5. No Keystone XL. Terribly polluting oil not even destined for the US. A spill would have been an ecological disaster ESPECIALLY in a Mississippi tributary. Try less propaganda and more truth.
6 . Can it be denied that religion has been used SINCE ITS INCEPTION to infer power and riches on the rich and powerful while keeping the poor ignorant and poor? DID YOU KNOW...Jews originally didn't recognize life after death. Originally Jews died, they died, that's it. BUUUUUT then the poor people looked at the rich religious types in their mansions with slaves all over the place and said "What's in it for me to worship this God guy? " So the preachers said "did we say dead? No, no what we meant to say was dead until the resurrection!" And from there we get to Trumpianity.

There it is folks. Like every religion when challenged they respond with lies and then accuse the others of heresy.

Undeniable.

 

[blackhawk]

I find this whole one sided topic highly amusing as if there are no to use the rather silly term cult like figures on the left. It seems many do not remember the cult like devotion the left gave to Barak Obama for eight years. People want to talk about how the Republican party has changed fine but also take a real hard honest look at how the Democratic party has changed as well this is no longer the party of FDR or JFK it is not even the party of Bill Clinton anymore. There was a time when people like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, AOC and her squad types would have been nothing more than irelevant fringe elements in the party now they are pretty much running the party and calling the shots.

 

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

When I saw the thread title and that you were supposedly a 'republican', I thought you were going to talk about how the left's ideology has turned into their own theology that they once fought so hard against decades ago. This is something I have watched happen over the last 25 years, attacking the 'religious right' for forcing their morals on everyone either via social acceptance or via government laws. But what you see today is the left forcing their morals on everyone via social acceptance and government laws, but somehow now that they control the narrative, it's okay to force your 'morals' (and I use the term very loosely) on everyone else no matter how it's accomplished. So they've developed their own 'theology' and are cramming it down everyone's throat, doing the exact same thing they claimed to be against when the so called religious right was doing it decades ago. Yet here you are, claiming to be a republican (lol), and still trying to claim that it's the right that's doing it... hilarious!!! And then add your TDS to the mix, you gave me something to laugh at this morning!!

Note the religion adherents will always point to others perceived faults rather than peering in the mirror and seeing truth.

But, as is always the case, their "blame game" really says more about their religion than about anyone else.

"...ttacking the 'religious right' for forcing their morals on everyone either via social acceptance or via government laws."

Here is a person denying that a bunch of right wingers is trying to make abortion illegal because they think it's immoral. MEANWHILE, they claim the so called "left" is trying to force THEIR morals on everyone?

Tell me has anyone on the left:
forced you to worship a particular God?
forced women to open their pelvis' for a government required exam?
decided that people can't serve in government because of the religion? Sexual orientation?

Can you SMELL THE HYPOCRISY THE TRUMPIANS ARE COOKING TONIGHT?!?!?!

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

If you do not believe gun rights and taxes are important issues, you are not a republican. You never were one.

As for the problems of the GOP, that is the 911 crowd, and if you don't have a clue about science either, you probably still believe the official version of 911, which is completely laughable.

I didn't address gun rights.
I pointed out the silos of religious adherents within the party and their willingness to subvert their own well being to gain members in their church.

Might want to reread the OP and this time read to understand before your respond.

You do know that prior to 1994 guns were not that big a thing in GOP circles. No?
You do know that lowering taxes DOES NOT increase revenues. No?

Pretty sure you're the topic of the thread.

Gun rights became a bigger issue in 1994 because democrats started pushing more gun control. The issue was always there. It is a central part of every long term republican.

Taxes and spending go together. Reagan tried to get tax and spending cuts, but the dem controlled congress under crook Jim wright and KKK cyclops senate majority leader and Biden bestest buddy Robert Byrd, the KKKing of pork, added back massive spending.

The true concept of fiscal conservatism was only tried during Bill Clinton, because newt stuck him with those budgets, tax and spending cut budgets. What did that do? Booming economy and budget surplus.

Fiscal conservatism works.

W tried tax cuts and massive massive LBJ caliber big government spending/socialism, and that is the disaster America is yet to recover from....

W was not a conservative.

And neither are you....

My wife likes to point out to me, that Newt was able to say no, TO A PRESIDENT FROM THE OTHER PARTY.

You give republicans both Congress AND the presidency, and it seems that they cannot resist either.

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is rich, coming from the party that worships The State.

You guys in the Trump cult have no problem using the power of the state to interfere in the private affairs of citizens and corporations because culture war.

Just look at all the "conservatives" salivating over Ron DeSantis signing a law that interferes in the internal affairs of "Big Tech."

The GQP has become an authoritarian cult of personality movement steeped in grievance. It has nothing to do with libertarian values.

But I'm sure you have to keep telling yourself otherwise because cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

But how?
How did we get from Bush 41 to Trump?

BTW..I know the answer. Starts with the "Southern Strategy."

That makes no sense. IF you are a believer in the Southern Strategy conspiracy theory, then it supposedly has been part of EVERY gop platform since nixon, (at least).


So, you are just throwing out partisan shit now.


Which supports my point, that you people are so partisan that it encourages anger from us.

I've been pointing it out for years.
IT HAS been part of the GOP since 69.

AND

The people the GOP was recruiting could easily be described as DAMNED STUPID.
But the GOP winked, promised their fantasies of an all White America would be fulfilled and they could have power again...
Took a while to the late 80s for the stupid to reach critical mass
and it's been downhill into the religious morass the party is stuck in today.

Do you believe Trump won the 2020 election?
Why? What overwhelming body of evidence has convinced you?
OR
Do you believe it because Trump told you so?

Do you believe there was no Russian collusion?
Again, what mountain of evidence convinced you?
Or was it, Again, Trump telling you so while hiding the evidence?

Don't blame me for seeing what you are.
Open your eyes and see for yourself.

Errr, you made teh claim that we went from Bush to Trump, because "southern strategy".

I pointed out that that made no sense, because supposedly if you believe in that debunked Conspiracy Theory than it would have bene a constant during that entire time not the cause of a change.


Your second post, in response, made even less sense. It seems to be just a bucket of anti-GOP talking points, throw at the wall by a monkey, hoping to create some sort of negative.... spin.


Trump ran on clear and strong policies, crafted to serve the interests of working class Americans.


He got a lot of support from white members of that group.


That anyone has trouble understand that, is they being closed minded fools.

No, I didn't. I said it STARTED with the Southern Strategy.
Then it was abortion nuts
Then it was ant-science nuts starting with smoking
and on and on and on

Same recruiting methods
Same moronic targets
Same promises

53% of the GOP believes Trump won in 2020.
53%!
No evidence to support those beliefs
TONS of evidence those beliefs are wrong
YET
They cling to those beliefs because they know that real soon now
There will be a Second Coming.

Care to wager on what % of the 53% are rabid evangelicals?

Trump ran on appealing to working class Americans, a group that has been much ignored over the last few decades.

Your talk of Southern Strategy or Abortion has nothing to do with his winning the primaries, or the election.

Your need to believe that your enemies are stupid or "Rabid" is a weakness on your part.


Your anti-Christian bigotry is funny, considering the tens of millions of religious lefties that march with you on all issues.

So working class voters thing Mexicans are rapists? Drug dealers?
Don't be ignorant. Not a good look.

Trump recognized what the GOP had devolved into.
He recognized the racism, economic ignorance, narcissism and the other traits dominating the party and spoke the words publicly that the GOP has been whispering for 50 years.

To deny where the GOP was and is either ignorant or dishonest.
To deny that Trump's play was always a grift, that he never intended to win, that he had no idea how to lead and showed it every day is, again, ignorance or dishonesty.

Still making things up, I see.

One of these days you will grow up.

 

[Dadoalex]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

If you do not believe gun rights and taxes are important issues, you are not a republican. You never were one.

As for the problems of the GOP, that is the 911 crowd, and if you don't have a clue about science either, you probably still believe the official version of 911, which is completely laughable.

I didn't address gun rights.
I pointed out the silos of religious adherents within the party and their willingness to subvert their own well being to gain members in their church.

Might want to reread the OP and this time read to understand before your respond.

You do know that prior to 1994 guns were not that big a thing in GOP circles. No?
You do know that lowering taxes DOES NOT increase revenues. No?

Pretty sure you're the topic of the thread.

Gun rights became a bigger issue in 1994 because democrats started pushing more gun control. The issue was always there. It is a central part of every long term republican.

Taxes and spending go together. Reagan tried to get tax and spending cuts, but the dem controlled congress under crook Jim wright and KKK cyclops senate majority leader and Biden bestest buddy Robert Byrd, the KKKing of pork, added back massive spending.

The true concept of fiscal conservatism was only tried during Bill Clinton, because newt stuck him with those budgets, tax and spending cut budgets. What did that do? Booming economy and budget surplus.

Fiscal conservatism works.

W tried tax cuts and massive massive LBJ caliber big government spending/socialism, and that is the disaster America is yet to recover from....

W was not a conservative.

And neither are you....

My wife likes to point out to me, that Newt was able to say no, TO A PRESIDENT FROM THE OTHER PARTY.

You give republicans both Congress AND the presidency, and it seems that they cannot resist either.

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is rich, coming from the party that worships The State.

You guys in the Trump cult have no problem using the power of the state to interfere in the private affairs of citizens and corporations because culture war.

Just look at all the "conservatives" salivating over Ron DeSantis signing a law that interferes in the internal affairs of "Big Tech."

The GQP has become an authoritarian cult of personality movement steeped in grievance. It has nothing to do with libertarian values.

But I'm sure you have to keep telling yourself otherwise because cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

But how?
How did we get from Bush 41 to Trump?

BTW..I know the answer. Starts with the "Southern Strategy."

That makes no sense. IF you are a believer in the Southern Strategy conspiracy theory, then it supposedly has been part of EVERY gop platform since nixon, (at least).


So, you are just throwing out partisan shit now.


Which supports my point, that you people are so partisan that it encourages anger from us.

I've been pointing it out for years.
IT HAS been part of the GOP since 69.

AND

The people the GOP was recruiting could easily be described as DAMNED STUPID.
But the GOP winked, promised their fantasies of an all White America would be fulfilled and they could have power again...
Took a while to the late 80s for the stupid to reach critical mass
and it's been downhill into the religious morass the party is stuck in today.

Do you believe Trump won the 2020 election?
Why? What overwhelming body of evidence has convinced you?
OR
Do you believe it because Trump told you so?

Do you believe there was no Russian collusion?
Again, what mountain of evidence convinced you?
Or was it, Again, Trump telling you so while hiding the evidence?

Don't blame me for seeing what you are.
Open your eyes and see for yourself.

Errr, you made teh claim that we went from Bush to Trump, because "southern strategy".

I pointed out that that made no sense, because supposedly if you believe in that debunked Conspiracy Theory than it would have bene a constant during that entire time not the cause of a change.


Your second post, in response, made even less sense. It seems to be just a bucket of anti-GOP talking points, throw at the wall by a monkey, hoping to create some sort of negative.... spin.


Trump ran on clear and strong policies, crafted to serve the interests of working class Americans.


He got a lot of support from white members of that group.


That anyone has trouble understand that, is they being closed minded fools.

No, I didn't. I said it STARTED with the Southern Strategy.
Then it was abortion nuts
Then it was ant-science nuts starting with smoking
and on and on and on

Same recruiting methods
Same moronic targets
Same promises

53% of the GOP believes Trump won in 2020.
53%!
No evidence to support those beliefs
TONS of evidence those beliefs are wrong
YET
They cling to those beliefs because they know that real soon now
There will be a Second Coming.

Care to wager on what % of the 53% are rabid evangelicals?

Trump ran on appealing to working class Americans, a group that has been much ignored over the last few decades.

Your talk of Southern Strategy or Abortion has nothing to do with his winning the primaries, or the election.

Your need to believe that your enemies are stupid or "Rabid" is a weakness on your part.


Your anti-Christian bigotry is funny, considering the tens of millions of religious lefties that march with you on all issues.

So working class voters thing Mexicans are rapists? Drug dealers?
Don't be ignorant. Not a good look.

Trump recognized what the GOP had devolved into.
He recognized the racism, economic ignorance, narcissism and the other traits dominating the party and spoke the words publicly that the GOP has been whispering for 50 years.

To deny where the GOP was and is either ignorant or dishonest.
To deny that Trump's play was always a grift, that he never intended to win, that he had no idea how to lead and showed it every day is, again, ignorance or dishonesty.

Still making things up, I see.

One of these days you will grow up.

Nothing is made up.
I can see why it makes you uncomfortable and angry.
Questioning the foundations of one's religion has that effect.
But as another "conservative" once remarked

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

When I saw the thread title and that you were supposedly a 'republican', I thought you were going to talk about how the left's ideology has turned into their own theology that they once fought so hard against decades ago. This is something I have watched happen over the last 25 years, attacking the 'religious right' for forcing their morals on everyone either via social acceptance or via government laws. But what you see today is the left forcing their morals on everyone via social acceptance and government laws, but somehow now that they control the narrative, it's okay to force your 'morals' (and I use the term very loosely) on everyone else no matter how it's accomplished. So they've developed their own 'theology' and are cramming it down everyone's throat, doing the exact same thing they claimed to be against when the so called religious right was doing it decades ago. Yet here you are, claiming to be a republican (lol), and still trying to claim that it's the right that's doing it... hilarious!!! And then add your TDS to the mix, you gave me something to laugh at this morning!!

Note the religion adherents will always point to others perceived faults rather than peering in the mirror and seeing truth.

But, as is always the case, their "blame game" really says more about their religion than about anyone else.

"...ttacking the 'religious right' for forcing their morals on everyone either via social acceptance or via government laws."

Here is a person denying that a bunch of right wingers is trying to make abortion illegal because they think it's immoral. MEANWHILE, they claim the so called "left" is trying to force THEIR morals on everyone?

Tell me has anyone on the left:
forced you to worship a particular God?
forced women to open their pelvis' for a government required exam?
decided that people can't serve in government because of the religion? Sexual orientation?

Can you SMELL THE HYPOCRISY THE TRUMPIANS ARE COOKING TONIGHT?!?!?!

Yeah, actually they have. They were attacking Brett Kavanaugh because he's catholic. They attacked Amy Coney Barrett for the same reason

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

If you do not believe gun rights and taxes are important issues, you are not a republican. You never were one.

As for the problems of the GOP, that is the 911 crowd, and if you don't have a clue about science either, you probably still believe the official version of 911, which is completely laughable.

I didn't address gun rights.
I pointed out the silos of religious adherents within the party and their willingness to subvert their own well being to gain members in their church.

Might want to reread the OP and this time read to understand before your respond.

You do know that prior to 1994 guns were not that big a thing in GOP circles. No?
You do know that lowering taxes DOES NOT increase revenues. No?

Pretty sure you're the topic of the thread.

Gun rights became a bigger issue in 1994 because democrats started pushing more gun control. The issue was always there. It is a central part of every long term republican.

Taxes and spending go together. Reagan tried to get tax and spending cuts, but the dem controlled congress under crook Jim wright and KKK cyclops senate majority leader and Biden bestest buddy Robert Byrd, the KKKing of pork, added back massive spending.

The true concept of fiscal conservatism was only tried during Bill Clinton, because newt stuck him with those budgets, tax and spending cut budgets. What did that do? Booming economy and budget surplus.

Fiscal conservatism works.

W tried tax cuts and massive massive LBJ caliber big government spending/socialism, and that is the disaster America is yet to recover from....

W was not a conservative.

And neither are you....

My wife likes to point out to me, that Newt was able to say no, TO A PRESIDENT FROM THE OTHER PARTY.

You give republicans both Congress AND the presidency, and it seems that they cannot resist either.

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is rich, coming from the party that worships The State.

You guys in the Trump cult have no problem using the power of the state to interfere in the private affairs of citizens and corporations because culture war.

Just look at all the "conservatives" salivating over Ron DeSantis signing a law that interferes in the internal affairs of "Big Tech."

The GQP has become an authoritarian cult of personality movement steeped in grievance. It has nothing to do with libertarian values.

But I'm sure you have to keep telling yourself otherwise because cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.

But how?
How did we get from Bush 41 to Trump?

BTW..I know the answer. Starts with the "Southern Strategy."

That makes no sense. IF you are a believer in the Southern Strategy conspiracy theory, then it supposedly has been part of EVERY gop platform since nixon, (at least).


So, you are just throwing out partisan shit now.


Which supports my point, that you people are so partisan that it encourages anger from us.

I've been pointing it out for years.
IT HAS been part of the GOP since 69.

AND

The people the GOP was recruiting could easily be described as DAMNED STUPID.
But the GOP winked, promised their fantasies of an all White America would be fulfilled and they could have power again...
Took a while to the late 80s for the stupid to reach critical mass
and it's been downhill into the religious morass the party is stuck in today.

Do you believe Trump won the 2020 election?
Why? What overwhelming body of evidence has convinced you?
OR
Do you believe it because Trump told you so?

Do you believe there was no Russian collusion?
Again, what mountain of evidence convinced you?
Or was it, Again, Trump telling you so while hiding the evidence?

Don't blame me for seeing what you are.
Open your eyes and see for yourself.

Errr, you made teh claim that we went from Bush to Trump, because "southern strategy".

I pointed out that that made no sense, because supposedly if you believe in that debunked Conspiracy Theory than it would have bene a constant during that entire time not the cause of a change.


Your second post, in response, made even less sense. It seems to be just a bucket of anti-GOP talking points, throw at the wall by a monkey, hoping to create some sort of negative.... spin.


Trump ran on clear and strong policies, crafted to serve the interests of working class Americans.


He got a lot of support from white members of that group.


That anyone has trouble understand that, is they being closed minded fools.

No, I didn't. I said it STARTED with the Southern Strategy.
Then it was abortion nuts
Then it was ant-science nuts starting with smoking
and on and on and on

Same recruiting methods
Same moronic targets
Same promises

53% of the GOP believes Trump won in 2020.
53%!
No evidence to support those beliefs
TONS of evidence those beliefs are wrong
YET
They cling to those beliefs because they know that real soon now
There will be a Second Coming.

Care to wager on what % of the 53% are rabid evangelicals?

Trump ran on appealing to working class Americans, a group that has been much ignored over the last few decades.

Your talk of Southern Strategy or Abortion has nothing to do with his winning the primaries, or the election.

Your need to believe that your enemies are stupid or "Rabid" is a weakness on your part.


Your anti-Christian bigotry is funny, considering the tens of millions of religious lefties that march with you on all issues.

So working class voters thing Mexicans are rapists? Drug dealers?
Don't be ignorant. Not a good look.

Trump recognized what the GOP had devolved into.
He recognized the racism, economic ignorance, narcissism and the other traits dominating the party and spoke the words publicly that the GOP has been whispering for 50 years.

To deny where the GOP was and is either ignorant or dishonest.
To deny that Trump's play was always a grift, that he never intended to win, that he had no idea how to lead and showed it every day is, again, ignorance or dishonesty.

Still making things up, I see.

One of these days you will grow up.

Nothing is made up.
I can see why it makes you uncomfortable and angry.
Questioning the foundations of one's religion has that effect.
But as another "conservative" once remarked
View attachment 494437

What religion is that? I'm an atheist..

 

[Mustang]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

<YAWN!>

 

[Oddball]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Republicans are racist!

Get a new routine, tragicomic drip.

 

[Mustang]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Republicans are racist!

Get a new routine, tragicomic drip.

Is there anyone who's surprised? I'm thinking no since fascism follows a pretty predictable series of events like when the Combine the Right rally torch-bearers yelled out that Jews would not replace them. That's not what most people would consider a message of inclusion, is it?

 

[Mustang]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

<YAWN!>

Yeah, your lawn leads me to believe that you actually read something, and it was beyond your comprehension. From what I've witnessed, that's not a high bar since you prove your willful ignorance all the time.

 

[Oddball]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

Conservatives have always had a strong authoritarian streak. It helped keep their caucus far more united than the Democrats for decades. At the same time, Republican presidents and presidential candidates were overwhelmingly reasonable and rational men. Having said that, some presidents like Reagan and Bush 43 were more partisan and ideological while others like Eisenhower and Bush 41 were more pragmatic in their approach to governance.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Those four events led to the candidacy of Trump. Unfortunately, Trump was everything our founding fathers had feared in a potential political leader. First of all, he was an authoritarian from years of running his business without having to answer to anyone else. Secondly, he was a demagogue like previously failed and rejected leaders of the past like Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy. Thirdly, he was also woefully and willfully ignorant about public policy issues, and finally he had no moral compass other than what was in his own interest.

It was almost a perfect storm, but I think there was one more component which made a Trump candidacy more palatable to a lot of Americans than it otherwise would have been. It's the fact that he'd been broadcast into millions of American homes for years on The Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice which meant that Americans thought they knew him.

Finally, since Trump was a showman above all else, and he knew how to generate publicity for himself after decades of interacting with the media, he knew how to get free press. While other politicians would release position papers and pay to get their message out to the public, Trump just knew that if he continued to say outrageous things, he could get all the free air time he wanted.

And as Jackie Gleason used to say, "And AWAY we go!"

So, now the question is what can we learn from all that's happened during the last 4+ years?

It's the fact that the Trump candidacy and presidency was the birth of modern-day American fascism, pure and simple.

It could have continued on like this for decades except for four things that happened in the span of a few short years.

1. The economic meltdown of 2008.
2. The election of Obama, the only African American President in our history, later that year.
3. The 2010 rise of the Tea Party in response to Obama's election.
4. Trump's very public embrace of Birtherism which questioned the legitimacy of Obama's presidency.

Republicans are racist!

Get a new routine, tragicomic drip.

Is there anyone who's surprised? I'm thinking no since fascism follows a pretty predictable series of events like when the Combine the Right rally torch-bearers yelled out that Jews would not replace them. That's not what most people would consider a message of inclusion, is it?

A couple hundred fruitcakes who gathered in one small city for one event > scores of thousands of violent goons who sacked and burned dozens of cities over the course of 2020.

You assholes are fucking sick in the head....Seriously.

 

[Mac1958]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is uncharted territory for this country. The world hasn’t seen this type of adoration and devotion for one person in many decades. And it didn’t end very well back then.

I’d like to think that Jan 6 was rock bottom for these people. But watch and listen to them, and yeah, it’s like a jihad, a holy war.

And for him, of all people. Of all freakin’ people.

Whether it's Trump, Mao, Hitler or Stalin the leaders of "Cults of Personality" tend to be unpleasant.

What about MTG and the rest? Don't they remind you of the TV preachers promising to make you rich for a donation?

Sure. MTG sees the blueprint that Trump created and is absolutely running with it.

This is now much bigger than the orange buffoon.

She and the rest are the apostles in the church of Trumpology.

Like the Sunday morning preachers who will save your soul for a small donation.

Bingo. This is more than politics for them. It's a full blown lifestyle.

Indeed.

Note that not a single person has disputed the factuality of the premise.
They cussed, and damned, and whined, and cried but not a single word actually attacks the facts.

Actually I bring this up because if you observe dispassionately, this evolution is fascinating. There are nutjobs on both side and people willing to take advantage of those nuts. But this goes beyond simple nutjobs. Step back and it appears to have all the marks of the birth of a religion.
I'm sure the Jews thought the Christians were nuts and the Christians were sure the Muslims were crazy and EVERYBODY knew John Smit was a loon. So maybe in 500 years these Trumpians will begin their holy crusade to spread their teachings across the lands. Or maybe they'll have a big kool aid party just before the indictments come in. Who knows?

The similarities are simply too obvious to ignore.

I remain amazed that his could happen in America.

 

[kyzr]

I'd like this to be a serious discussion so I you want to throw bombs, go elsewhere.

I'm a Republican. Been one since 1973. I've watched in fascination, despair, anger, and bemusement as the Party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, IKE and Reagan has devolved into the circus we see every day. Remember back in the 80s when it was "Republicans rely on logic, Democrats rely on feelings?" My how times have changed.

They've changed but what bought about such a radical change in the party? How is it Jon Huntsman, the former governor of Utah is a traitor because he agreed to serve as Ambassador to China? They guy was a great choice in a position that is supposed to be completely apolitical. What happened? Obama and the fervent belief that the GOP must hate all things Obama.

In the church that call this excommunication. Banning from the benefits of the religion.

Have you ever tried to convince a religious person that they are simply factually wrong in their beliefs? It is impossible because their beliefs are based on faith not on facts and no amount of evidence can change their opinion.

If you step back and observe the GOP in 2021 is it any different?
Trump lost the election by a bunch. But despite the overwhelming evidence Trump lost and ZERO evidence to the contrary the GOP takes it on faith that Trump won, everyone cheated, and he will rise again.

It's not just the election. The GOP truly has no governing policies to speak of. It has devolved into this collection of issue silos where the adherents to the beliefs in one silo share nothing in common with the other silos yet, as long as those silos support their craziness, they will support the other silos without question. These silos? They're like individual churches. Baptist, Catholic. Jew. Gun, Abortion, Tax. All of them holding their beliefs fiercely and totally on factless faith.

Like all religions, it has a leader, Trump, the GOP pope and like all religions it has its scammers practicing the religion as a grift. Again, trump but also McConnell, McCarthy, MTG and the rest. They're just playing the rubes for the cash.

You can try to argue with my interpretation of the facts but the fact do fit the interpretation.

But what happens next.

If we can't talk these people down there will be, in effect, a "religious war." What happens in 2024 when they lose the next presidential election? When their attempts at stealing and rigging the election fail? You've read their words here. Their talk about violence.

This topic is deserving of several hundred pages but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is uncharted territory for this country. The world hasn’t seen this type of adoration and devotion for one person in many decades. And it didn’t end very well back then.

I’d like to think that Jan 6 was rock bottom for these people. But watch and listen to them, and yeah, it’s like a jihad, a holy war.

And for him, of all people. Of all freakin’ people.

We like "America First" Trump.
You democrats like "Russia First" Xiden. It's that simple.

You are unable to address the topic. I will ask the mods to block you if it continues.

Your OP hypothesis is bullshit. The mods would sooner move this bullshit thread than block my honest commentary.
Trump is "America First". (That's why we vote for him)
Xiden (Putin's Bitch) is "Russia First".

Why do you believe Trump is "America First?"
Would it be his selling us out to Russia?
Would it be his selling us out to Ukraine?
Would it be his billing the US government millions for his personal protection?

Or would it be
America First yes it's so
Because Lord Trump told me so

Your words do prove the thesis.

1. Trump didn't sell the US out to Russia, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who allowed Putin to modernize his military with Nord Stream 2 cash.

2. Trump didn't sell us out to Ukraine, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who used his authority to remove a Ukranian prosecutor who was investigating Burisma for corruption, and was giving Hunter Biden about $133,000 a month for a no-show job.

3. Trump didn't sell us out to China, that was Putin's Bitch Joe Xiden, who used AF-2 to get Hunter Biden $1.5b in Chinese cash to "invest".

4. No clue WTF billing the US government for protection means. How about donating his salary?

5. Trump is America First. Trump allowed the KeystoneXL pipeline to proceed. Putin's Bitch stopped the KeystoneXL pipeline.

6. Your words prove democrats to be godless socialists, the way Karl Marx told you to be. Democrats prefer real opium.

Opium of the people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for proving my thesis.

1. He did. Documented.
2. He did, on tape. Or did you forget the impeachment and all the evidence Trump refused to let us see?
3. Trump's been selling you out to China for years. Weakening our ability to produce and turning farmers into welfare queens.
4. You should read the actual news and lay off the NEWSMAX crap load.
5. No Keystone XL. Terribly polluting oil not even destined for the US. A spill would have been an ecological disaster ESPECIALLY in a Mississippi tributary. Try less propaganda and more truth.
6 . Can it be denied that religion has been used SINCE ITS INCEPTION to infer power and riches on the rich and powerful while keeping the poor ignorant and poor? DID YOU KNOW...Jews originally didn't recognize life after death. Originally Jews died, they died, that's it. BUUUUUT then the poor people looked at the rich religious types in their mansions with slaves all over the place and said "What's in it for me to worship this God guy? " So the preachers said "did we say dead? No, no what we meant to say was dead until the resurrection!" And from there we get to Trumpianity.

There it is folks. Like every religion when challenged they respond with lies and then accuse the others of heresy.

Undeniable.

1. Trump never sold us out to Russia, that was Putin's Bitch. Remember, the Mueller Investigation on Trump came up empty. The only thing that is "documented" is Xiden's support for Nord Stream 2 giving Putin cash to modernize his military.

2. On tape? That was Xiden extorting Ukraine to remove the Burisma prosecutor or lose $1b in US aid.


3. How was Trump selling us out to China? List the ways. That is a lie, Trump put tariffs on China dumbass. That was Hunter Biden who got $1.5b in cash from China.

4. You can't prove your "billing the US government for protection" lie, can you? Didn't think so.

5. Stopping KeystoneXL doesn't stop the oil flow. The "truth" is that it just means more pollution and risk transporting the oil on trucks and trains, duh.

6. Trump is a 25:1 underdog to win in 2024 according to Vegas oddsmakers. Your dietization is ill conceived. IMHO you have a routine case of TDS. Time heals all wounds.

 

[Dragonlady]

Your OP only looks at one party, when there are two major parties in the US. The battlelines have been drawn for years. The current battle is not fought with bullets, but with votes and policies successfully passed, like taking "Hamburger Hill" again and again. The animosity between the Shia and Sunni pales in comparison.
To disprove your apparent contention that the GOP is full of mindless rubes adoring all things Trump to the point of a religion. Let me suggest to you that Trump may not win the 2024 nomination. I won't vote for him in the primary, but if he is the GOP nominee I will vote for him over an 82 year old Xiden or racist-socialist Kamala Harris.
The main points you missed are the major policy differences that the parties are using to garner votes. Trump and Xiden are the "generals" putting up strategy and rationale' and resources why their policies are good and the other parties' policies are horrible.
Here is a short list of major policy differences where you need to pick one party or the other. Remember, it matters not who is in the oval office signing the legislation, what matters most is which policies are passed into law:
Defund the police
Border and immigration policies
Energy policies
Military posture
The Green New Deal
"Wokeness"
Law and Order vs Anarchy
Reprogram the US education system: Critical Race Theory vs Traditional/Family Values
God vs atheism
China and trade policies
Outsourcing jobs by taxing corporations so much they relocate
HR-1 grab for one-party rule
Make DC & PR new states taking over the US senate forever
Replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote
Totally turning the US into a socialist/failed state.
Packing the US Supreme Court with Leftists

Only one party has lost its mind and is refusing to govern.

I don’t expect you to even admit this is the problem because you’re one of the strictest adherence to this religion. Witness your response.

You complain about packing the supreme court when the Supreme Court has already been packed with conservatives. Merrick Garland was refused so much is a meeting by Mitch McConnell.

McConnell stole 2 seats on the Court so that it now needs to be rebalanced. You immediately call this “packing the court” Well denying what McConnell has been doing for the past 10 years.

 

[Dragonlady]

Your OP only looks at one party, when there are two major parties in the US. The battlelines have been drawn for years. The current battle is not fought with bullets, but with votes and policies successfully passed, like taking "Hamburger Hill" again and again.
To disprove your apparent contention that the GOP is full of mindless rubes adoring all things Trump to the point of a religion. Let me suggest to you that Trump may not win the 2024 nomination. I won't vote for him in the primary, but if he is the GOP nominee I will vote for him over an 82 year old Xiden or racist-socialist Kamala Harris.
The main points you missed are the major policy differences that the parties are using to garner votes. Trump and Xiden are the "generals" putting up strategy and rationale' and resources why their policies are good and the other parties' policies are horrible.
Here is a short list of major policy differences where you need to pick one party or the other. Remember, it matters not who is in the oval office signing the legislation, what matters most is which policies are passed into law:
Defund the police
Border and immigration policies
Energy policies
Military posture
The Green New Deal
"Wokeness"
Law and Order vs Anarchy
Reprogram the US education system: Critical Race Theory vs Traditional/Family Values
God vs atheism
China and trade policies
Outsourcing jobs by taxing corporations so much they relocate
HR-1 grab for one-party rule
Make DC & PR new states taking over the US senate forever
Replacing the Electoral College with the popular vote
Totally turning the US into a socialist/failed state.
Packing the US Supreme Court with Leftists

Missed the topic by a mile. Try again.

Your OP misses reality by a mile. Try answering my post.

Your post is proof of the OP. Your refusal to acknowledge that you’re part of the problem is proof of the problem.