What's up y'all?

[Circe]

What exactly is a "holler"? Welcome patriot!

It's kind of a "good ol' boy" reference to the deep canyon like draws between ridges, mostly wooded. It's technical definition is a heavily wooded area out in the middle of nowhere.

"I'd rather be
In some dark holler
Where the sun
Don't never shine
Than to see you
Another man's darling
And to know
You'll never be mine.

 

[MisterBeale]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

 

[emilynghiem]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

Dear MisterBeale
Just because WinterBorn
sympathizes with the people who take offense at Confederate symbolism doesn't mean he has to enforce mandates along those lines. I support my district's Congresswoman, Sheila Jackson Lee on democratic plans for converting public housing into self governing campus community programs www.campusplan.org yet we disagree on banning Confederate flags I believe is part of historic preservation and education.
I sympathize but do not believe bans are the right approach but actually make the racial hostility worse.
I agree we need "reparations" but the generational disparity and injuries involve a spiritual process of healing and recovery that is voluntary. So the churches and nonprofits should manage this on a volutary basis.
While the state and govt can manage restitution to taxpayers and citizens for debts and damages based on property and tax money abused for racketeering.

Until we define all the tracks for solving these problems, you are right, the Liberals are lumping them all together and mixing which are the responsibility of individuals or churches that are voluntary charity, and which are truly within the jurisdiction and authority of public process through govt.

WinterBorn
Is in the process and position of you and me trying to sort this out. We know we have biases toward the opposite ends of the spectrum. Let's just help each other prevent those two sides from imposing on each other.
You and I come across as enabling or tolerating, even encouraging or promoting "racism" and insensitivity that makes Blacks and other minorities feel excluded and demeaned as not counting in society.
I get that, even though I work just as hard to empower and include those voices as I support the voices and culture on the right.

WinterBorn
And others voicing objection to the flag waving as insensitive or viewed as hostile to Blacks and minorities, come across as "supporting the fascist approach of banning these symbols".

Despite how we come across, the common concern is we don't want fascist oppression based on race. We don't want the approaches to stopping Black profiling to go too far and become White bashing (although INDIVIDUALS have free speech to bash and vent against whoever they blame, this bias cannot be mandated into govt policies without violating Civil Rights laws against discrimination by race class or creed).

WinterBorn and MisterBeale
Can we generally agree that the same way supporters of Confederate history want to protect our "free speech from govt bans" this is similar to the BLM and boycotters against businesses, flags or anthems, want "free speech to protest".

We prefer not to be called racist or fascist.
But if we want our free speech, we must equally accept others have their free speech to call us what they want as well.

Where we all draw the line, we don't want onesided narrative pushed through media and party to lobby GOVT to adopt that other side without equally protecting our side.

We don't want lopsided public policy that endorses the other bias and punishes ours.

Is this a fair statement?

 

[emilynghiem]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

Yes it is. But, like the Swastika, the meaning has changed due to it's use by a few.

But it was exclusive WinterBorn
People quit using it for anything else so it only meant one thing.
We don't agree to quit using Confederate references so that it only means proslavery racism.
Just like we don't all agree to change the meaning of marriage, or men and women to mean internal ID instead of genetically determined gender.

If people do not agree to change their beliefs, the govt cannot be abused to force them to comply.

That is the "belief" that liberals don't get.
The liberal "belief" in statism does believe govt has authority to issue collective mandates.

But the Constitutionalists on the Libertarian side limit govt orders to just military and national security or emergency, and even the War Powers Act was challenged as overreaching. It still requires consent of the people.

Overriding or manipulating consent of the public doesn't count when you are censoring the dissent.

So that is where the objection to Statism and Fascism is coming from, while Liberals complain of oppression by calling it Racism or White Supremacy.

 

[MisterBeale]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

Dear MisterBeale
Just because WinterBorn
sympathizes with the people who take offense at Confederate symbolism doesn't mean he has to enforce mandates along those lines. I support my district's Congresswoman, Sheila Jackson Lee on democratic plans for converting public housing into self governing campus community programs www.campusplan.org yet we disagree on banning Confederate flags I believe is part of historic preservation and education.
I sympathize but do not believe bans are the right approach but actually make the racial hostility worse.
I agree we need "reparations" but the generational disparity and injuries involve a spiritual process of healing and recovery that is voluntary. So the churches and nonprofits should manage this on a volutary basis.
While the state and govt can manage restitution to taxpayers and citizens for debts and damages based on property and tax money abused for racketeering.

Until we define all the tracks for solving these problems, you are right, the Liberals are lumping them all together and mixing which are the responsibility of individuals or churches that are voluntary charity, and which are truly within the jurisdiction and authority of public process through govt.

WinterBorn
Is in the process and position of you and me trying to sort this out. We know we have biases toward the opposite ends of the spectrum. Let's just help each other prevent those two sides from imposing on each other.
You and I come across as enabling or tolerating, even encouraging or promoting "racism" and insensitivity that makes Blacks and other minorities feel excluded and demeaned as not counting in society.
I get that, even though I work just as hard to empower and include those voices as I support the voices and culture on the right.

WinterBorn
And others voicing objection to the flag waving as insensitive or viewed as hostile to Blacks and minorities, come across as "supporting the fascist approach of banning these symbols".

Despite how we come across, the common concern is we don't want fascist oppression based on race. We don't want the approaches to stopping Black profiling to go too far and become White bashing (although INDIVIDUALS have free speech to bash and vent against whoever they blame, this bias cannot be mandated into govt policies without violating Civil Rights laws against discrimination by race class or creed).

WinterBorn and MisterBeale
Can we generally agree that the same way supporters of Confederate history want to protect our "free speech from govt bans" this is similar to the BLM and boycotters against businesses, flags or anthems, want "free speech to protest".

We prefer not to be called racist or fascist.
But if we want our free speech, we must equally accept others have their free speech to call us what they want as well.

Where we all draw the line, we don't want onesided narrative pushed through media and party to lobby GOVT to adopt that other side without equally protecting our side.

We don't want lopsided public policy that endorses the other bias and punishes ours.

Is this a fair statement?

It's a pretty fair statement, but it has a pollyannish view of what is currently going on the world and general society.

What we have now, is a fascistic relationship between the foundations and corporations, with government, promoted by academia and the corporate sector, throughout the entire establishment.

There are multiple public/private partnerships, that due to their very quasi-private nature, are now enforcing Newspeak. Since these relationships are out of the purview of the government, they can and do, enforce their own terms of debate, favoring the world view and interests of some out-groups, and not others.

As an example, on this very site.. . . . the software has automatic censors against derogatory language for blacks, and Jews, and Hispanics, but, if you want to use derogatory language for the Irish, Italians, or Poles? Feel free. I think you can poke fun at the Chinese and Japanese too.

So. . . tell me? Who programs the software, and who decides who gets a cyber NEWSPEAK safe-space?

We can't even use these words for comedy or joking around. . . that is authoritarian. I KNOW who are the racists and nationalists. I'm not one of them. And having this software does not change who these trolls are, it only stifles free exchange of ideas. . . and if anything, it cloaks who these cads are all the more.

I agree with everything you said, but now, more than ever, our lives are run more by machines, companies and corporations, rather than free people and governments with lofty ideals, and these are the entities that not only control voting, but determine who gets funding for elections. They are also the ones who determine what NEWSPEAK is now allowed. Don't you see?

In my view? It is either freedom for all. . . or freedom for none.

 

[emilynghiem]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

Dear MisterBeale
Just because WinterBorn
sympathizes with the people who take offense at Confederate symbolism doesn't mean he has to enforce mandates along those lines. I support my district's Congresswoman, Sheila Jackson Lee on democratic plans for converting public housing into self governing campus community programs www.campusplan.org yet we disagree on banning Confederate flags I believe is part of historic preservation and education.
I sympathize but do not believe bans are the right approach but actually make the racial hostility worse.
I agree we need "reparations" but the generational disparity and injuries involve a spiritual process of healing and recovery that is voluntary. So the churches and nonprofits should manage this on a volutary basis.
While the state and govt can manage restitution to taxpayers and citizens for debts and damages based on property and tax money abused for racketeering.

Until we define all the tracks for solving these problems, you are right, the Liberals are lumping them all together and mixing which are the responsibility of individuals or churches that are voluntary charity, and which are truly within the jurisdiction and authority of public process through govt.

WinterBorn
Is in the process and position of you and me trying to sort this out. We know we have biases toward the opposite ends of the spectrum. Let's just help each other prevent those two sides from imposing on each other.
You and I come across as enabling or tolerating, even encouraging or promoting "racism" and insensitivity that makes Blacks and other minorities feel excluded and demeaned as not counting in society.
I get that, even though I work just as hard to empower and include those voices as I support the voices and culture on the right.

WinterBorn
And others voicing objection to the flag waving as insensitive or viewed as hostile to Blacks and minorities, come across as "supporting the fascist approach of banning these symbols".

Despite how we come across, the common concern is we don't want fascist oppression based on race. We don't want the approaches to stopping Black profiling to go too far and become White bashing (although INDIVIDUALS have free speech to bash and vent against whoever they blame, this bias cannot be mandated into govt policies without violating Civil Rights laws against discrimination by race class or creed).

WinterBorn and MisterBeale
Can we generally agree that the same way supporters of Confederate history want to protect our "free speech from govt bans" this is similar to the BLM and boycotters against businesses, flags or anthems, want "free speech to protest".

We prefer not to be called racist or fascist.
But if we want our free speech, we must equally accept others have their free speech to call us what they want as well.

Where we all draw the line, we don't want onesided narrative pushed through media and party to lobby GOVT to adopt that other side without equally protecting our side.

We don't want lopsided public policy that endorses the other bias and punishes ours.

Is this a fair statement?

It's a pretty fair statement, but it has a pollyannish view of what is currently going on the world and general society.

What we have now, is a fascistic relationship between the foundations and corporations, with government, promoted by academia and the corporate sector, throughout the entire establishment.

There are multiple public/private partnerships, that due to their very quasi-private nature, are now enforcing Newspeak. Since these relationships are out of the purview of the government, they can and do, enforce their own terms of debate, favoring the world view and interests of some out-groups, and not others.

As an example, on this very site.. . . . the software has automatic censors against derogatory language for blacks, and Jews, and Hispanics, but, if you want to use derogatory language for the Irish, Italians, or Poles? Feel free. I think you can poke fun at the Chinese and Japanese too.

So. . . tell me? Who programs the software, and who decides who gets a cyber NEWSPEAK safe-space?

We can't even use these words for comedy or joking around. . . that is authoritarian. I KNOW who are the racists and nationalists. I'm not one of them. And having this software does not change who these trolls are, it only stifles free exchange of ideas. . . and if anything, it cloaks who these cads are all the more.

I agree with everything you said, but now, more than ever, our lives are run more by machines, companies and corporations, rather than free people and governments with lofty ideals, and these are the entities that not only control voting, but determine who gets funding for elections. They are also the ones who determine what NEWSPEAK is now allowed. Don't you see?

In my view? It is either freedom for all. . . or freedom for none.

Dear MisterBeale
I think you actually described what Liberals feel when they call systemic bias oppression or exclusion "white privilege."

The sense of the collective powers of corporate interests that make us all feel unequal and battling a goliath, the left blames on the church and state monopoly they see as favoring "white class culture".

While the right see the corporate monopoly on govt and media as coming from the "woke left" trying to compete with the right.

In the meantime, China that has no regulations on its work business or military policies is using its greater population and resources to overtake other countries and economy.

We can either unite to correct the problems causing waste, abuse and disparity and compel China and other leaders to resolve conflicts and problems without exploiting, extorting or coercing others.

Or we can waste time attention and money competing to blame other parties to try to take back control of the narrative.

Can we agree on a narrative that goes after the real problems, and demands corrections we agree on?

All parties have a laundry list of violations debts or damages by govt abuses for which taxpayers can prove we are owed reimbursement. Can we agree to assess the costs of corrections needed, and invest in those areas of reforms.

If parties don't agree on priorities or approaches to reform, let us solve those problems within the parties that AGREE to fund those solutions. And allow 100% tax breaks as afforded to churches, by recognizing parties as political religious organizations with rights to tax breaks for investing in their own social programs, health care jobs, environmental restoration etc.

Where we agree publicly, we should have no issue establishing govt policy, though we might have to spell out what is federal and what should be allocated to states proportionally such as having state reserve systems similar to the federal system.

Why not use our diverse party structures to organize representation and taxation by party or by district to accommodate where we have different cultures and approaches to govt.

 

[WinterBorn]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

So you think a person who has seen the terrorist attacks in person, or has seen, first hand, the results of those attacks against a parent or grandparent, is the exact same as someone who has knowledge of terrorists attacks from 200+ years ago? lol Okey dokey then.

I am not moving goalposts at all. I have been consistent in what I have said.

And please point out where I have advocated censorship. There is a huge difference between censorship and recognizing that a symbol can be the source of anxiety, fear or hatred. I have not said anything about banning anything. Not once.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

Four year loser history.

Actually, the Confederates won most of the battles and inflicted more casualties with fewer men.

 

[Likkmee]

Maybe people collect the coin roll wrappers?

Or the one time use bank full coin rolls?

I would hunt for them if they were full.

Me neither . I'd make a shotgun barrel and ream it out to chamber them as slugs. Have Leblond /can do. Could you imagine 20 metal quarters hitting you in the face at 700-900 fps sailing like drunken frizbeez out of a 16 inch smooth bore in a 12" pattern at 20 feet ?
BRB. I need some paper towels

 

[playtime]

welcome to our little slice of the interwebs...

i will reserve judgement on how to respond to you in the future until i have read some of yer posts in the various forums.

No one cares about your judgement but you.

Please reserve it forever.

lol ... where's your CONfed flag, 'eh? if you couldn't figure that reply out, then donny loves you extra long time.

 

[playtime]

You're flag is racist- just an FYI- but, sfw- I love the Stars and Stripes myself- especially on top of the General Lee-

Actually, the flag is history.

So is this:

View attachment 477815

German history.

World history.

You are right. History is history. Good or bad.

I agree with, as far as history goes. But there were a lot of years in which domestic terrorists used the symbol to keep a segment of the population in line. Both the overt terrorist acts and the threat of more of those acts created a legacy for that piece of history.

We are supposed to learn from history, not pay for it.

When a symbol is used to terrify a specific segment of the population, and many people of authority ignored the issues, it changes the way the symbol is perceived.

You are not having to pay for it. But how many think that flag that has caused so much trouble is the flag of the Confederate States?

Yes, the Confederacy is history. But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity.


View attachment 477877

Yes and No WinterBorn
This is not an exclusive monopoly.
We do have to be careful and considerate but that does not mean judging and punishing people for our differences in cultural meaning and perspective.

The WAP video upset a lot of people, but not everyone agreed. Dissenters can turn off the Grammy's and not support that sector of the music industry.

You can wave your own flag and teach your interpretation of these symbols.

But you cannot expect to impose your interpretation as the "dominant mandate everyone must follow" without becoming the thought police you are fighting against.

I am not imposing my interpretation on anyone. Just explaining why the waving of the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia is prone to incite hostile feelings in some.

In the old days? 30, 40 years ago. . . the left liked to offend folks, they were never worried about folks feelings. This is America, grow up and be responsible for your own damn feelings.

If you can't control your feelings? You are a child and had lousy parenting and schooling.

I am all grown up, thanks. I am also responsible for my own damn feelings. No problem.

I have control over my feelings. I am not a child. And I had excellent parents and good schooling.




But thanks for your concern.

Great. . . so stop white knighting for folks, and let anyone say anything they want, and wave any flag they want.

Freedom, what a concept?

I am only responsible for what I say. I am not responsible for your misinterpretation of what I say.

Can you please point out where I said people should not be allowed to wave any flag they want?

You are telling the forum, when others use a flag, what their intentions are. . . by the reactions on-lookers have.

"But to wave the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia around like it means something, when that meaning has been co-opted by a couple of generations of domestic terrorists is insanity."

This, of course, is wrong.

The intentions of those using the symbol, belong to the person using the symbol.

Just the same as. . . If I made the claim that you are calling every person that waves the American Flag a white supremacist, even though this is clearly something you have never written? That would be false. So I have no right to impute upon you something you have never said or written. . . yet you are in this thread imputing motive on folks by the way their use of a symbol makes others feel.

That is ridiculous.

How others feel about the use of a symbol? That is on them.

The only thing that matters is what a person says about the use of that symbol.

All of the times folks in various states demanded that the Battle flag of Virginia be taken out of the State Capitol flags? All of those instances were patently ridiculous. . . as none of those instances had anything at all to do with slavery, nothing. It was purely a political move by the left and the federalists grasp for more power.

That had to do with depressing Southern Heritage.

I have not discussed the intent of those waving the flag. I have discussed why there are those who would feel a certain way about those who wave that flag. And that they have good reason to feel that way. If your parents, grandparents, and community were terrorized by people waving that battle flag of northern Virginia, it would tend to stick with you.

So you are telling me how I should feel now? Just like the mass media and schools tell the minorities here how they should feel. Nice. And you think these elite oligarchs are giving them "good reason," to feel that way, huh?

I had ancestors that were terrorized by this flag.

In fact, under this flag, this whole slave mess and "terror," was started in the first place. . . can we move to ban this flag world wide now?

If not? Then I hope you can finally identify why your propaganda sounds, just like it is. . . propaganda.

I am not telling you anything about how you should feel.

As far as your ancestors, were you there and saw it? Did you see fear in your father's eyes from the terrorist acts?

You have tried to twist what I have said every way you can, and then accuse me of propaganda. I have not spouted propaganda at all. Just the explanation that there are people for whom the battle flag of northern Virginia was a symbol used by men who terrorized them and their families. Not only that, the authorities often aided in the terrorism. And these terrorist acts were not in another country or hundreds of years ago. They were in THIS country and in my lifetime.

ahhh. . . . so now you believe I am trying to "twist" what you are saying when I accurately deconstruct your propaganda and nonsense eh?

. . . oh? And now we are going to move the goal posts? There is a time limit to when terror and hate matters? I see.

It has an expiration date. Interesting.


GTFO with your excuses for why we would believe there are good reasons for censoring thought and free expression. I have no time for people carrying water for the authoritarians that want to divide this nation.

Most intelligent folks can figure out who the haters are, and who those are that are celebrating heritage. If you want to sit there and tell the forum that folks are "offended," by normal people celebrating their heritage? You are standing with the authoritarians that wish to crush freedom, liberty and free expression for all.

just an FYI ... larry the cable guy isn't a real good ol' boy....he's from nebraska & that is just an act.

 

[beautress]

Good day gentlemen, my name is [REDACTED] and I am an 18 year old guy from the Eastern woods of Kentucky.

I am a self proclaimed conservative, and proud to be a conservative teen in a world full of moronic kids my age. I am home schooled (Thank God for that), and live on a farm surrounded by woods and "hollers". I love to relic hunt, hunt, bottle hunt, coin roll hunt, Bargain hunt, you get the picture.




View attachment 477707

Welcome to USMB, Confederate Soldier. Hope you enjoy the board.

 

[miketx]

Well, where did he go?

 

[Lastamender]

Well, where did he go?

Maybe he saw your pic of Stacy and is busy.

 

[MisterBeale]

Well, where did he go?

Maybe after I mentioned my eager anticipation of our two newest young minds having a discussion, he actually viewed once of Frenchie's videos and headed for the hills?

 

[Gracie]

Where did he go? Why, perhaps he intro'd himself, spoke about the things he loves to do and y'all turned it into a history lesson complete with comments on his mask, the flag, etc and he said "fuck this shit. Old fogies want me off their lawn".

This is why we can't have nice things or young people here.

 

[Gracie]

Meanwhile...the rebel flag is part of history. I have no problem with it.

Reparations my ass. Give the same to the Irish who were treated like shit. Same with the Italians. Oh, and the native americans.

IF this guy comes back, I'd like to know what goodies he found on his hunts. Does he use a metal detector? Got pics of any super prizes he dug up?

You know. Meeting someone for the first time, having a cuppa or a soda, general howdydo.

 

[OldLady]

Good day gentlemen, my name is [REDACTED] and I am an 18 year old guy from the Eastern woods of Kentucky.

I am a self proclaimed conservative, and proud to be a conservative teen in a world full of moronic kids my age. I am home schooled (Thank God for that), and live on a farm surrounded by woods and "hollers". I love to relic hunt, hunt, bottle hunt, coin roll hunt, Bargain hunt, you get the picture.




View attachment 477707

No I don't, you can't be a real country boy because you never mentioned hunting mushrooms, snipes or deer. You being into numismatics tells me you are a suburbanite.

What's a snipes?

 

[OldLady]

IF this guy comes back, I'd like to know what goodies he found on his hunts. Does he use a metal detector? Got pics of any super prizes he dug up?

Yes, much more interesting than the rest of the verbal mudslide in the rest of this thread.
How'd you do with those Chinese maker marks on your snuff box, btw?

 

[Gracie]

AND fucking furthermore...it didn't help with a staff member joining in the fray instead of telling everyone to STAY ON TOPIC in the damn INTRO thread and being unbiased in his remarks. Not a good look, that. If a staff member doesn't follow their own rules they bust ass to enforce, why stay in such a place? I wouldn't/won't.

I'm grumpy. This place is starting to suck. Badly.