What's the difference between public school and welfare

[rightwinger]

Gee, I guess you're right, huh. Public education really is free. Do you get free parking for your unicorn when you visit Fairyland?

?

 

[BS Filter]

Our Free Education has made the US the greatest nation in history

We have other “Free Stuff” want to talk about it?

All those teachers and staff work for free, huh. Where does their paycheck money come from?

 

[rightwinger]

All those teachers and staff work for free, huh. Where does their paycheck money come from?

Do you really need me to explain how our system of Government works?

 

[Jarlaxle]

That is called a functioning society

We invest in something we call “education”
An educated society benefits all

And you posted this...with no punctuation. Of course you did.

 

[BS Filter]

Do you really need me to explain how our system of Government works?

Yes. You're the person claiming public education is free. Who pays the teachers, staff, school upkeep, electricity bills, furniture, construction of buildings, books, etc?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes. You're the person claiming public education is free. Who pays the teachers, staff, school upkeep, electricity bills, furniture, construction of buildings, books, etc?

OK…..let me give you the version for retards

We the People invented a society where we all contribute revenue to a more perfect union. Not everyone contributes the same based on multiple factors

Now…we elect representatives to decide how to spend that revenue

Some goes to roads which we get to drive on for “free”
We have police and fire protection that we are not charged for
Our Children go to schools and their parents do not receive a bill

 

[BS Filter]

OK…..let me give you the version for retards

We the People invented a society where we all contribute revenue to a more perfect union. Not everyone contributes the same based on multiple factors

Now…we elect representatives to decide how to spend that revenue

Some goes to roads which we get to drive on for “free”
We have police and fire protection that we are not charged for
Our Children go to schools and their parents do not receive a bill

Oh, I see. What's "revenue"?

 

[Pellinore]

Where I was taught that a tax-funded benefit given by a government is welfare.

Whoa there. You're making a claim here that goes far beyond education (and all of the squabbling here about what is and isn't free).

You're saying that every single government-supplied service that there is, is a form of welfare, and therefore a pathway to tyranny? Really?

Because the implication beyond that is that they should all be replaced with free-market capitalism for the same services?

All of them?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Whoa there. You're making a claim here that goes far beyond education (and all of the squabbling here about what is and isn't free).

You're saying that every single government-supplied service that there is, is a form of welfare, and therefore a pathway to tyranny? Really?

They are certainly welfare for those who do not pay for them. Those would be the very wealthy who would be taxed so much that they can more easily afford lawyers who find ways for them to avoid taxes, and the very poor who are too poor to pay taxes. I include in that group people who get welfare money and use it to buy taxable items in stores. They cannot fairly call themselves "taxpayers," because actual taxpayers gave them the money to pay those taxes.

Most of us fall in the middle, both paying for and receiving government benefits, with no real way to tell whether we are net payers, or net beneficiaries. Even more difficult would be computing the effects of government "taxing" by printing money, which provides benefits in exchange for a reduction in the value of our liquid wealth.

Maybe you think that is bull. If so, please tell me whether you are a net payer or a net beneficiary of government spending and how you arrived at the figure of how much either way.

But none of that really matters when it comes to a specific government program such as public education. Regardless of how much you pay or don't pay, from the provider's point of view and the point of view of supporters of the public education system, you are getting a "free" education for your children, and the "free" benefits that come from other people's children being educated. That idea is tantamount to an article of faith for posters such as rightwinger, who is very representative of a large part of our population.

When people believe that they are giving you something free, they will look on you no differently than the people at the welfare office will look at you when you apply for WIC and EBT.

Because the implication beyond that is that they should all be replaced with free-market capitalism for the same services?

All of them?

There are some services that are best provided by a carefully controlled and accountable government. We must hold it accountable, while realizing that the nature of government is that there will be corruption and ineptitude, no matter how closely the citizens watch it. The problem is that we don't watch it closely, and when we do, it is often to see if there is some freebie that they can provide us, rather than whether they are spending wastefully. So the people who staff the government are about the business of enriching themselves, while placating us with handouts and/or promises of handouts.

That said, government should be providing a military defense, which can be largely a skeleton cadre, standing by to train and organize volunteers and local militia in the event of an invasion, and a navy to provide coastal defense and keep shipping lanes open, which should be staffed by professionals, and police.

I have my own ideas about how police should be staffed, but explaining it would be too confusing for a person shocked at the idea of government not providing the full range of service that it currently does.

Anything else that government seeks to provide should always be on a probationary basis, with government being required, through the free market, to demonstrate that it is doing it better than the private sector would. Public education is an example of a service that indeed used to prove its worth, but has now become an expensive joke of the dark humor variety in many places.

 

[BS Filter]

Government is not supposed to support citizens through taxing other citizens. There is no Constitutional requirement, but that wasn't the original intent. There is also no Constitutional requirement for the Federal government to administrate public education.

 

[rightwinger]

But none of that really matters when it comes to a specific government program such as public education. Regardless of how much you pay or don't pay, from the provider's point of view and the point of view of supporters of the public education system, you are getting a "free" education for your children, and the "free" benefits that come from other people's children being educated. That idea is tantamount to an article of faith for posters such as @rightwinger, who is very representative of a large part of our population.

Now you are getting it
A free Public school education is the great equalizer in our society. Imagine the poorest kid in town receiving the same education as the wealthiest.
Our public education system is the vehicle that allows poor and working class children to climb the economic ladder

 

[SweetSue92]

Now you are getting it
A free Public school education is the great equalizer in our society. Imagine the poorest kid in town receiving the same education as the wealthiest.
Our public education system is the vehicle that allows poor and working class children to climb the economic ladder

That is not even remotely true as it is administered in the real world. Parents with means move into the best school districts while poor families are stuck in failing schools. It's outrageous. Black families have had enough. They want school choice and they are correct.

 

[rightwinger]

That is not even remotely true as it is administered in the real world. Parents with means move into the best school districts while poor families are stuck in failing schools. It's outrageous. Black families have had enough. They want school choice and they are correct.

States still mandate certain resources and provide additional funding to less affluent districts

Regardless, a free public school education is the best chance to escape poverty and for overall upward mobility

 

[SweetSue92]

States still mandate certain resources and provide additional funding to less affluent districts

Regardless, a free public school education is the best chance to escape poverty and for overall upward mobility

Its not if your school is an atrocity. But you don't have to argue with me over it-- you are losing Black voters who wonder why you want to trap them in failing schools

 

[Seymour Flops]

Now you are getting it
A free Public school education is the great equalizer in our society. Imagine the poorest kid in town receiving the same education as the wealthiest.
Our public education system is the vehicle that allows poor and working class children to climb the economic ladder

It's not a great equalizer. I posted a thread about how we need to make public schools more equal by making sure kids aren't trying to learn when their hungry, sick, or unable to see properly and it was met with shocked expressions of horror.

Not to mention that a kid who grew up in a house full of books has an advantage of a kid who grew up in a house full of empty beer cans.

As anywhere else, children of good parents with means get all they need and more, while children whose parents see public school as a baby sitter gets only what government provides.

 

[rightwinger]

It's not a great equalizer. I posted a thread about how we need to make public schools more equal by making sure kids aren't trying to learn when their hungry, sick, or unable to see properly and it was met with shocked expressions of horror.

Not to mention that a kid who grew up in a house full of books has an advantage of a kid who grew up in a house full of empty beer cans.

As anywhere else, children of good parents with means get all they need and more, while children whose parents see public school as a baby sitter gets only what government provides.

Not much a society can do about a child’s home life or motivation

What we can do is provide good, safe schools. Well paid teachers and an opportunity to succeed

 

[Seymour Flops]

Not much a society can do about a child’s home life or motivation

What we can do is provide good, safe schools. Well paid teachers and an opportunity to succeed

Yeah.

How's that working out?

 

[rightwinger]

Its not if your school is an atrocity. But you don't have to argue with me over it-- you are losing Black voters who wonder why you want to trap them in failing schools

I’m not falling for your school voucher nonsense…….poor blacks can’t get vouchers for better schools.

All vouchers do is ensure that average or struggling students go to schools with less funding while the good schools get the best students and most funding

Vouchers only address the top while it starves the rest

 

[BS Filter]

I’m not falling for your school voucher nonsense…….poor blacks can’t get vouchers for better schools.

All vouchers do is ensure that average or struggling students go to schools with less funding while the good schools get the best students and most funding

Vouchers only address the top while it starves the rest

Are you a supporter of public school unions?

 

[rightwinger]

Are you a supporter of public school unions?

Absolutely
Schools with union teachers perform better

With Teachers, you get what you pay for