What Would You Do? (Education)

[Unkotare]

Give up on the students who need the most help? What a pussy quitter attitude.

No. Set standards and hold people accountable.

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Speaking as a teacher, I can tell you you're wrong.

 

[gallantwarrior]

No. Set standards and hold people accountable.

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Speaking as a teacher, I can tell you you're wrong.

At what level do you teach?

 

[Unkotare]

Ever wonder why foreign students, at great cost flock to US schools?

Number Of International Students In The US Up Nearly 10 Percent In 2015

Record number of international students studying in U.S.

Republicans think US schools are the worst in the world. The rest of the world thinks US schools are the best in the world. Come on. In the last 40 years, what have Republicans ever been right about? I'm talking policies they have passed that affects the country. Not "talking points".

Believe it or not, many foreigners send their kids here for High School, not just college:

http://www.usnews.com/education/hig...for-international-students-at-us-high-schools

Hilarious. It almost looks like our election map. Gee. I wonder why?

Republicans constantly down US education, but will never, ever answer the question about why foreign students flock here for American Education. Considered the best in the world by the rest of the world. The people in the grey states insist education is no good. The other states? Not so much. Why is that? How come they won't answer this question?

I think you're avoiding the socioeconomic advantages of an American education. They come here, not because the quality of education is better, but because it gives their children entree into the driving forces of economy, connects them with the inner circle of movers and shakers.

And because they believe the education to be more valuable.

 

[Unkotare]

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Speaking as a teacher, I can tell you you're wrong.

At what level do you teach?

High school and college (and privately tutoring) [and coaching].

 

[gallantwarrior]

"Education" encompasses more than strictly academic pursuits. Lots of professions are better served by apprenticeship and journeyman relationships than university and college educations. Unfortunately, both university and union associations have been abrogated by PC interpretations.

 

[Coyote]

Yes. Because I don't believe that is the "only way". If the private school model (and there isn't even just one) is the means to better performance - then let's shape our public schools to that model, not let them die. Personally, I think giving more community control, downsizing classroom size a great deal, and allowing teachers to be more innovative and creative is a far better idea.

That's the point. They have no reason to change. Give them a reason to change.

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

Or not.

I'm not willing to allow our public education system to be destroyed so people can have tax payer money financing private and religious schools.

 

[Coyote]

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

How would you know?

Because it is Darwinian.

Sort of....but implying survival of the fittest is the model we should go by means then that there will be a large number of students failed by this. Private schools can not be forced to take all students - they can pick and choose. So that's going to leave a certain number of students - those who the schools won't take, those who can't afford to send their kids to private schools even with vouchers, or have no private schools available - in failing school systems that will then fail even further as money is withdrawn and the higher end pupils siphoned off.

You're going to end up with two distinct classes and a widening gulf...how does that fulfil the goal an educated citizen?

 

[Coyote]

Give up on the students who need the most help? What a pussy quitter attitude.

No. Set standards and hold people accountable.

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Why did you choose the profession?

 

[Unkotare]

That's the point. They have no reason to change. Give them a reason to change.

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

Or not.

I'm not willing to allow our public education system to be destroyed so people can have tax payer money financing private and religious schools.

Why do you think competition would "destroy" public education?

 

[Coyote]

Yes. Because I don't believe that is the "only way". If the private school model (and there isn't even just one) is the means to better performance - then let's shape our public schools to that model, not let them die. Personally, I think giving more community control, downsizing classroom size a great deal, and allowing teachers to be more innovative and creative is a far better idea.

That's the point. They have no reason to change. Give them a reason to change.

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

How do you feel about vouchers? School choice? Parochial schools? Home schooling?

I feel that parents have every right to choose what ever accredited school they want. But I do not believe we, the taxpayers should pay for it. I oppose vouchers for a variety of reasons. People should not be forced to subsidize private for-profit or religious schools. Taking money away from the public school system only makes the problem worse and leaves those students stuck in the system worse off. Private schools don't have to take everyone - they can pick and choose from the best if they want. Vouchers also don't help many families - they don't pay for the entire cost, they don't cover transportation, they don't work when there are no private schools in a reasonable distance or for parents that don't have transport options where there might be a private school. It subsidizes a few at the expense of others.

But you can't have it both ways .... you can't say people have the freedom of school choice, but that they must subsidize substandard schools (through taxes) while paying for educational excellence (out of pocket).

If I remove 10 students from your school, why should you get money to teach those 10 students? Shouldn't the money dedicated to the education of the 10 students go with the 10 students?

Yes, you can have it both ways. They can choose to enroll in the public school, or they can choose to enroll in private or to homeschool. That is freedom of choice.

Our nation mandates that a child receives a certain number of years of schooling. It also provides, through our taxes, but at no cost to the families - free schooling that meets (or should meet) the minimum standard. If they want more than that - then it's up to them. They aren't guaranteed a Harvard education. I don't have kids at all. Why should I have to subsidize ANYONE's education? I do because it's in the best interests of our country, but that doesn't mean I should subsidize private for-profit schools or religious schools.

 

[Coyote]

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

Or not.

I'm not willing to allow our public education system to be destroyed so people can have tax payer money financing private and religious schools.

Why do you think competition would "destroy" public education?

I didn't say it would. That's a strawman. I said taking money from the public education to fund private schools would ultimately destroy them or diminish them. Unlike private schools - they don't set tuition rates to increase their income. It's based on taxes. In poor areas, there isn't a lot of tax money to begin with so your talking about reducing it even further for any Tom, Dick and Harry that might want to have his kid's private schooling subsidized. If you're unhappy with what's going on in the schools become an involved parent.

There already IS competition. There's thousands of private schools and home schooling.

 

[Spare_change]

That's the point. They have no reason to change. Give them a reason to change.

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

Or not.

I'm not willing to allow our public education system to be destroyed so people can have tax payer money financing private and religious schools.

Why would taking my child's share of the 'education dollar' destroy the public education system?

 

[Spare_change]

That's the point. They have no reason to change. Give them a reason to change.

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

How do you feel about vouchers? School choice? Parochial schools? Home schooling?

I feel that parents have every right to choose what ever accredited school they want. But I do not believe we, the taxpayers should pay for it. I oppose vouchers for a variety of reasons. People should not be forced to subsidize private for-profit or religious schools. Taking money away from the public school system only makes the problem worse and leaves those students stuck in the system worse off. Private schools don't have to take everyone - they can pick and choose from the best if they want. Vouchers also don't help many families - they don't pay for the entire cost, they don't cover transportation, they don't work when there are no private schools in a reasonable distance or for parents that don't have transport options where there might be a private school. It subsidizes a few at the expense of others.

But you can't have it both ways .... you can't say people have the freedom of school choice, but that they must subsidize substandard schools (through taxes) while paying for educational excellence (out of pocket).

If I remove 10 students from your school, why should you get money to teach those 10 students? Shouldn't the money dedicated to the education of the 10 students go with the 10 students?

Yes, you can have it both ways. They can choose to enroll in the public school, or they can choose to enroll in private or to homeschool. That is freedom of choice.

Our nation mandates that a child receives a certain number of years of schooling. It also provides, through our taxes, but at no cost to the families - free schooling that meets (or should meet) the minimum standard. If they want more than that - then it's up to them. They aren't guaranteed a Harvard education. I don't have kids at all. Why should I have to subsidize ANYONE's education? I do because it's in the best interests of our country, but that doesn't mean I should subsidize private for-profit schools or religious schools.

So, why not give me my share and let me educate my child as I see fit - to include paying whatever extra is necessary to meet my standards?

 

[Coyote]

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

They won't change until their existence is threatened.

I disagree. It's not as simple as that - specifically, the reasons for failing in those schools that are failing are diverse. It's why just throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem and likewise, taking money away doesn't solve anything either.

You would be surprised how much that would do.

Or not.

I'm not willing to allow our public education system to be destroyed so people can have tax payer money financing private and religious schools.

Why would taking my child's share of the 'education dollar' destroy the public education system?

How will it be payed for? And, as a correlary - why should I pay for your child's private education?

 

[Coyote]

I think they have reason to change, but they are stifled in bureacracy. There have been good innovative ideas that are successful, like magnet schools. Funneling money into private education is not going to make them change, it will make it harder for them to change. I also don't think tax payers should fund religious enterprises.

How do you feel about vouchers? School choice? Parochial schools? Home schooling?

I feel that parents have every right to choose what ever accredited school they want. But I do not believe we, the taxpayers should pay for it. I oppose vouchers for a variety of reasons. People should not be forced to subsidize private for-profit or religious schools. Taking money away from the public school system only makes the problem worse and leaves those students stuck in the system worse off. Private schools don't have to take everyone - they can pick and choose from the best if they want. Vouchers also don't help many families - they don't pay for the entire cost, they don't cover transportation, they don't work when there are no private schools in a reasonable distance or for parents that don't have transport options where there might be a private school. It subsidizes a few at the expense of others.

But you can't have it both ways .... you can't say people have the freedom of school choice, but that they must subsidize substandard schools (through taxes) while paying for educational excellence (out of pocket).

If I remove 10 students from your school, why should you get money to teach those 10 students? Shouldn't the money dedicated to the education of the 10 students go with the 10 students?

Yes, you can have it both ways. They can choose to enroll in the public school, or they can choose to enroll in private or to homeschool. That is freedom of choice.

Our nation mandates that a child receives a certain number of years of schooling. It also provides, through our taxes, but at no cost to the families - free schooling that meets (or should meet) the minimum standard. If they want more than that - then it's up to them. They aren't guaranteed a Harvard education. I don't have kids at all. Why should I have to subsidize ANYONE's education? I do because it's in the best interests of our country, but that doesn't mean I should subsidize private for-profit schools or religious schools.

So, why not give me my share and let me educate my child as I see fit - to include paying whatever extra is necessary to meet my standards?

Because, like roads, and the military, education is publically funded.

 

[gallantwarrior]

No. Set standards and hold people accountable.

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Why did you choose the profession?

Because I like teaching. Teaching is my job that's not a job because it brings me much pleasure.

 

[Coyote]

Kicking out the students who need help the most is quitting on them. The attitude of a quitter and a loser.

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Why did you choose the profession?

Because I like teaching. Teaching is my job that's not a job because it brings me much pleasure.

I always want to tell teachers - "thank you for your service", because it IS a service.

 

[gallantwarrior]

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Why did you choose the profession?

Because I like teaching. Teaching is my job that's not a job because it brings me much pleasure.

I always want to tell teachers - "thank you for your service", because it IS a service.

Thank you for your consideration. Good teachers don't do it for the money, that's certain. One thing I truly enjoy about the job is how much I learn from my students, as well as how much I learn in order to teach them.

 

[Unkotare]

You do realize that that is the option of last resort, don't you?

I don't think you realize why teachers teach.

Speaking as a teacher, I don't think you do.

Why did you choose the profession?

Because I like teaching. Teaching is my job that's not a job because it brings me much pleasure.

I always want to tell teachers - "thank you for your service", because it IS a service.

You're welcome.

 

[Coyote]

I was blessed with some very good teachers as a child, and I know some very good teachers now.