What would 'Palestine' be like today if the Jews never came back?

[Grendelyn]

And no need for so much oil, and thus a dirt poor Middle East filled with hateful savages.
But we have that anyway, don't we?

You betcha <Sarah Palin Christ-like smile>. But let's not be too hard on those Zionist savages . . . in having America in their pocket, they're not all that hateful.

 

[Beelzebub]

So basically, the US and Great Britain are at fault for everything bad in the Middle East.
Uh huh.

Very much of it.
Though Britain did try to help the Jews go there in numbers which might have worked. But it was unrealistic to believe that they would acquiesce to that, given that they began anti-British terrorism even while Britain was fighting the Germans.

You remember the Germans?
Big fans of Zionism and backers of the plan to move Jews to Palestine.

 

[Daniyel]

It's very hard to tell what Palestine would have been like with no Jewish invasion.
I know a lot less people would be dead.

Low wealth in Palestine would encourage terrorism and violence - failing with agronomic, water crisis, swamps, and science/tech Israel succeeded, as a starting point for a new state would be even more of a failure.
Poor education in Palestine would encourage terrorism and violence - This one is somewhat debatable because I tend to see Jordan/Saudi Arabia/Dubai/Egypt efforts on education going well, but with the rest of the variables nobody would aim for education when a shortcut to promising heaven wrapped with a suicide belt is easily accessible.
Zero M.E. Intervention favoring western/modern societies would encourage terrorism and violence -Most Arab Muslim states, failing on economics and education mostly focus on firepower and weapons, Iran/Iraq/Syria/etc. could already possess greater firepower and I don't think anyone would like them to.
Plus the fact that there are minorities not only Arab Muslims like Samertines, Circruits, (Druze out of this equation), Christians/Armenians-Templars-Arabs, and Jews..we know very well how they are treated in failing Arab Muslim states.
Poor ideology would provide a ground for armed conflicts/terrorism and violence - Lack of intention for democracy ideology or liberalism (not to mention socialism)

All these result to something between Iraq and Lebanon, but smaller.

 

[Phoenall]

Daniel Pipes. Ugh.

What is "Team Palestine"?

Those like yourself that support arab nationalism and terrorism and demonise Israel because of deep seated anti semitism and Jew hatreds

 

[Phoenall]

I would like an honest answer about this from Team Palestine about this.

I ask in light of this thread:

Arab Envy Of Israel Contributes To Their Dysfunction | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

this thread:

The Muslim claim to Jerusalem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the article in above thread (which penelope provided from another thread here):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

I could go on, but I really want to hear from Team Palestine about this question.

In light of how the rest of the Middle East is going and the history of how Islam cared about Israel ('Palestine') before the Jews decided to return; tell me honestly what 'Palestine' would be like today.

Please disregard the first article as it appears to be bias (the Daniel Pipes one) , instead refer to this one
Siege of Jerusalem (637) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is even more biased due to the author being an ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST SUPPORTER

 

[Indofred]

It's very hard to tell what Palestine would have been like with no Jewish invasion.
I know a lot less people would be dead.

Low wealth in Palestine would encourage terrorism and violence

All totally failing to consider the fossil fuel reserves stolen by Israel would enrich the Palestine that would have existed without the Jewish invasion.

 

[Phoenall]

@Coyote :

"Team Palestine" is a moniker that @Daniyel came up with very recently. I used to say the 'pro-Pali' folks. You very recently replied in another thread with the moniker "Team Israel", here:

Hamas "We killed the Israeli teens" | Page 3 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

but I guess you as a mod have a very short memory with all the duties you have. So what do you mean by it?

I just told you Teddi, or did you miss it? It was in direct response to Daniyel's use of the term "Team Palestine". I thought that was pretty clear?

I'll say this much, and it is sad that we are on different "teams", however, those on "Team Palestine" seem to be very good at derailing threads, or deflecting from the original question in the OP of the thread or at the very end, (now this applies to both "teams") name calling.

It is sad we appear to be on "different teams" though as I recall you used to claim to be coming here with an "open mind". I find both teams quite good at derailing when it suits them, don't you?

You, in this thread have shown me once and for all that your are on "Team Palestine" insomuch as you have very artfully performed the former two actions in my last sentence, though I have never seen you do the latter.

There is no once and for all about it, and what team I am on depends on the situation being discussed. It is exactly that kind of forced dichotomy - your must be one or the other NO MATTER WHAT that makes me such a crank-ass. I think the Palestinians have a right to a homeland and state and a just solution. I think Israel is no angel in this either and there are real inequities in it's system in the way justice and rights are granted to the people under it's control. Likewise, I feel Israel has every right to protect it's people from Hamas rocket attacks, and a right to exist. Hamas has done no favors for it's people but unlike the current propaganda drival that is currenty intent on demonizing it - I think the PLO is a lot better than Hamas. So which team am I on? Probably Palestinian. But it's a false and forced dichotomy that is runs through every debate.

So now that I have explained all that for you (including reminding you of your reference to the two "Teams") and indulged you with your derailment and deflection of the original question of this thread.

You've explained nothing.

What is your answer?

The answer is there is no way of knowing and anyone who pretends otherwise is lying.

What would Palestine be like if there had been NO CONFLICT? What kind of country would it be? Would the factions be as intractable as they are now? What could have developed without all the wars and poltical maneuverings? No one knows. It's an empty question.

We can use the evidence that is all around and say without a shadow of a doubt that if the Jews had not returned then Palestine would be very much like Syria and Iraq is today. There would be no enterprising Jews making the desert bloom, or water flowing from pipes. But there would be millions of refugees fleeing the ISLAMONAZI EXTREMISTS, and dead bodies littering the towns and cities. The west would be embroiled in the fighting and ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS would be planning their next major attack on a western nation.

 

[Phoenall]

Siege of Jerusalem (637) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting link there Penelope.

In answer to the thread title, presuming no other massive US interference in the region (not necessarily realistic) Britain would have not had the issues with Zionist terrorism, so would have been much more successful in bringing the Palestinians to a state of education and competency to run a British style ex-colonial system.

Due to the interruption of WWII it is likely that Britain would, seeing good progress, have accepted the request from the UN to extend its mission to continue to administer the region for some more years. I would think maybe 5, plus 10 more in a supportive role, and providing military security to its borders.

Of course Palestine would develop its own version of parliamentary rule, and have some similarities with India, as well as with Britain. Being small though, it would be able to move faster in education, commerce and development. The gas reserves would probably have been discovered earlier too.

Such a state, on the Med with British supporting security would likely have been commercially and diplomatically influential in the region. The tribal conflicts about it would still fester, but the bloodshed would be more proportionate to how much modern armaments were pushed into the region. As now.

It would likely have a stabilising effect on Lebanon and Jordan.

As to whether we would have had Saddam, the two (three) Iraq wars, the Iran / Iraq wars, well, again that comes down to how much other US / UK / French mischief would be going on in this alternate universe.

Britain would not have been involved as there would not have been a mandate in the first place. No LoN or UN either to oversee the formation of governments as it would all still be in Ottoman hands. We would not be posting on this message board as it would not impact on our lives as much. The world would be a poorer place to live with no Israeli medical inventions and breakthroughs to help people live longer. There would be fighting raging all around the M.E. and the various factions would be battling for full control. The death toll would be in the hundreds of millions and no one would bat an eyelid, just as they don't now over the deaths in the horn of Africa and in Syria and Iraq. There would have most probably been a WW3 by now and nuclear weapons may have been deployed in the East between Russia and Asia

 

[Phoenall]

It's very hard to tell what Palestine would have been like with no Jewish invasion.
I know a lot less people would be dead.

How do you know going on the evidence available, I think that a lot more would have been killed in the long run as we would not have a UN to referee for us...................

 

[Phoenall]

So basically, the US and Great Britain are at fault for everything bad in the Middle East.
Uh huh.

A lot of it, yes.
Without that interference, there would likely be far fewer problems than there are today.

What about the arab league interference then, or the Russian interference. Or have you forgotten about those.............

 

[Phoenall]

I would like an honest answer about this from Team Palestine about this.

I ask in light of this thread:

Arab Envy Of Israel Contributes To Their Dysfunction | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

this thread:

The Muslim claim to Jerusalem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the article in above thread (which penelope provided from another thread here):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

I could go on, but I really want to hear from Team Palestine about this question.

In light of how the rest of the Middle East is going and the history of how Islam cared about Israel ('Palestine') before the Jews decided to return; tell me honestly what 'Palestine' would be like today.

Not sure about how Palestine would be but surely America would be in a much better financial condition having not dumped billions upon billions upon billions of dollars into that Zionistic sh*t hole so named as Israel. Just think . . . if we hadn't dumped this amount of money to make a foreigner's desert bloom <guffaw>, perhaps we could even afford health insurance for all of our citizens just like 'Issheforreal' has <snicker>.

Doubtful as the whole economy over the last 70 years has been geared to the M.E. , without the M.E. the west would be wallowing and would not be a good place to be.

 

[Phoenall]

I would like an honest answer about this from Team Palestine about this.

I ask in light of this thread:

Arab Envy Of Israel Contributes To Their Dysfunction | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

this thread:

The Muslim claim to Jerusalem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the article in above thread (which penelope provided from another thread here):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

I could go on, but I really want to hear from Team Palestine about this question.

In light of how the rest of the Middle East is going and the history of how Islam cared about Israel ('Palestine') before the Jews decided to return; tell me honestly what 'Palestine' would be like today.

I wonder what the world would be like if you'd just shut your fuckin' mouth?

I'll tell you what it would be like, Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Arabs would get together for community dinners and play Trivial Pursuit.

No major incidents of violence have been recorded before the Zionist migration at the turn of the last century. Then you fuckers show up acting like the major assholes that you are and all hell breaks loose.

The Jews would be extinct in the M.E. by now and the arab muslims would be fighting along cult lines for greater control of the land.

 

[Beelzebub]

"Britain would not have been involved as there would not have been a mandate in the first place."

Britain would not have been involved as there would not have been a mandate in the first place. No LoN or UN either to oversee the formation of governments as it would all still be in Ottoman hands.

There is someone who failed history a junior school level.

Thank you Phoney. I think we can all disregard all of your posts completely from now, since you have shown such utter ignorance of history.

 

[Phoenall]

So basically, the US and Great Britain are at fault for everything bad in the Middle East.
Uh huh.

Very much of it.
Though Britain did try to help the Jews go there in numbers which might have worked. But it was unrealistic to believe that they would acquiesce to that, given that they began anti-British terrorism even while Britain was fighting the Germans.

You remember the Germans?
Big fans of Zionism and backers of the plan to move Jews to Palestine.

You forget that the British stopped all Jewish migration to Palestine and sent thousands of Jews to their deaths in concentration camps.

 

[Beelzebub]

You really do just sit there and invent the history you want, don't you phoney.

 

[teddyearp]

I wonder what the world would be like if you'd just shut your fuckin' mouth?

Why not say what you really feel *****?

 

[Penelope]

I would like an honest answer about this from Team Palestine about this.

I ask in light of this thread:

Arab Envy Of Israel Contributes To Their Dysfunction | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

this thread:

The Muslim claim to Jerusalem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the article in above thread (which penelope provided from another thread here):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

I could go on, but I really want to hear from Team Palestine about this question.

In light of how the rest of the Middle East is going and the history of how Islam cared about Israel ('Palestine') before the Jews decided to return; tell me honestly what 'Palestine' would be like today.

Please disregard the first article as it appears to be bias (the Daniel Pipes one) , instead refer to this one
Siege of Jerusalem (637) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is even more biased due to the author being an ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST SUPPORTER

Well every now and then you should read something besides Israel propaganda if you can find it.

 

[Penelope]

So basically, the US and Great Britain are at fault for everything bad in the Middle East.
Uh huh.

Very much of it.
Though Britain did try to help the Jews go there in numbers which might have worked. But it was unrealistic to believe that they would acquiesce to that, given that they began anti-British terrorism even while Britain was fighting the Germans.

You remember the Germans?
Big fans of Zionism and backers of the plan to move Jews to Palestine.

You forget that the British stopped all Jewish migration to Palestine and sent thousands of Jews to their deaths in concentration camps.

Tell us why,, and don't leave anything out now.

 

[toastman]

It's very hard to tell what Palestine would have been like with no Jewish invasion.
I know a lot less people would be dead.

The Jewish Invasion lie is Palestinian Propaganda (which you are an expert in)
The European Jews were invited by the British who also facilitated their immigration. The only invasion was that of the 5 Arab states who came to attack Israel. The Muslim Arab invasion that is.

 

[toastman]

I would like an honest answer about this from Team Palestine about this.

I ask in light of this thread:

Arab Envy Of Israel Contributes To Their Dysfunction | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

this thread:

The Muslim claim to Jerusalem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And the article in above thread (which penelope provided from another thread here):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

I could go on, but I really want to hear from Team Palestine about this question.

In light of how the rest of the Middle East is going and the history of how Islam cared about Israel ('Palestine') before the Jews decided to return; tell me honestly what 'Palestine' would be like today.

Not sure about how Palestine would be but surely America would be in a much better financial condition having not dumped billions upon billions upon billions of dollars into that Zionistic sh*t hole so named as Israel. Just think . . . if we hadn't dumped this amount of money to make a foreigner's desert bloom <guffaw>, perhaps we could even afford health insurance for all of our citizens just like 'Issheforreal' has <snicker>.

Whoa, someones angry ! LOL

Sorry to burst your bubble , but Israel does exist, and if you can't afford health insurance then maybe you should have wen to college so you could have gotten a real job