What makes you support one or the other?

[teddyearp]

No name calling, no propaganda Dogmaphobe

Would be nice to try and keep this one 'clean'.

What would be nice would be for you to stop being a jack-booted authoritarian who only attempts this sort of maneuver against those who do not share your hatred for the Jewish state.

You certainly had an opportunity for this sort of thing around post #7, and so it is patently obvious that it isn't a "clean" discussion you seek, but an echo chamber.

Definitely has a point there. . . .

 

[Lipush]

I thought this might an interesting topic...

It appears that there are a great many people involved on this forum who have little or NO connection with Israel or the Palestinians yet have incredibly strong views one side or the other...

So, without any name calling or propaganda, if thats possible...

I have no connection with either Israel or the Palestinians. I have been to Israel and it's neighbouring countries.

I support the plight of the Palestinian people NOT their leaders, Hamas. I have many Jewish friends, Muslim friends and friends of many other religions...

I do not support nor condone any form of violence or terrorism from either side.

My support for the Palestinian people is in the hope that one day, there will be peace in the region and where there is no oppression, no fear...

The occupation of territories by Israel needs to be addressed. The 'blockade' of Gaza should end and a genuine path to a proper solution should be sought, unconditionally.

Do I have the answers? No.

I consider that both side have 'extremists' who block the path to peace, mainly for their own agendas. I do feel that, from the Muslim extremist side, they do not want to have Israel there, from the Israeli side they do not want Muslims there... Both extremists want to see the demise of the other. In what ever form that takes.

Please, if you have nothing interesting to contribute, simply move along rather than posting hate and propaganda, that applies to all!

But you haven't told us WHY you only support one of the sides. You just told us the concerns of one side, that is, the occupation needs to be addressed, and the blockade removed. Whoop de doo. Come at us when you are completely honest with yourself and others.

I want a free Palestine, a free Israel and above all else, I want peace...

Free Palestine, as in Jews with Snorkels?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not happening, sugar.

 

[Lipush]

I thought it was supposed to be a no propaganda thread. Oh, well.

A smart saying claims that 'each conflict has two sides. Unless it personally involves you. In that case, there's only one'.

I come from a family of Ashkenazi immigrant Jews, family of Weiszmann. They were sent to Israel under the sponsorship of Rotchild, and lived in the area since 1883.

My great grandmother, Hadassah, was born in Israel. So was my grandmother, and so wasmy mom.

These days people call them 'illegal settlers' for some reason, even though their IDs pointed at them as native Palestinian.

They were in Israel before all those 'free Palestine' movements were invented, and when the Arab riots started, the great rebellions, they had a huge farm. The farm was burned down by Arabs and they were forced out of their own lands, escaped further south.

They call us land thiefs, but I reject the thinking, as my own lands were stolen back then.

And THAT tthe slighest diffefence between truths and half truths.

My faher's family escaped Europe after the wad, and my father grew up here.

My family, from both sides, has a praised military background. My parents served in the IDF each more than 20 years. My father served in battle in 1967, and 1973. His older brother was one of the soldiers who freed Jerusalem.

I served in the navy for 2 years. I lived in the south my entire life. I plan to have my future cchildren raised here.

That's my story. There is no 'side' to choose. I will follow my family's legacy, and so willthe next generation.

Thanks for posting that, Lipush - it's always great to hear something so open and personal.

I totally understand your thinking in saying that there is no question of choosing sides. Most of us live where our parents live, more or less, without ever thinking about it that way, as if there were real choice involved, or as if the land we chose to live on might be somehow right or wrong.

Yes, and then morons on this board ask "Why don't you leave, why you stay there?"

I mean, what the actual fuck? seriously.

 

[Roudy]

I thought it was supposed to be a no propaganda thread. Oh, well.

A smart saying claims that 'each conflict has two sides. Unless it personally involves you. In that case, there's only one'.

I come from a family of Ashkenazi immigrant Jews, family of Weiszmann. They were sent to Israel under the sponsorship of Rotchild, and lived in the area since 1883.

My great grandmother, Hadassah, was born in Israel. So was my grandmother, and so wasmy mom.

These days people call them 'illegal settlers' for some reason, even though their IDs pointed at them as native Palestinian.

They were in Israel before all those 'free Palestine' movements were invented, and when the Arab riots started, the great rebellions, they had a huge farm. The farm was burned down by Arabs and they were forced out of their own lands, escaped further south.

They call us land thiefs, but I reject the thinking, as my own lands were stolen back then.

And THAT tthe slighest diffefence between truths and half truths.

My faher's family escaped Europe after the wad, and my father grew up here.

My family, from both sides, has a praised military background. My parents served in the IDF each more than 20 years. My father served in battle in 1967, and 1973. His older brother was one of the soldiers who freed Jerusalem.

I served in the navy for 2 years. I lived in the south my entire life. I plan to have my future cchildren raised here.

That's my story. There is no 'side' to choose. I will follow my family's legacy, and so willthe next generation.

Thanks for posting that, Lipush - it's always great to hear something so open and personal.

I totally understand your thinking in saying that there is no question of choosing sides. Most of us live where our parents live, more or less, without ever thinking about it that way, as if there were real choice involved, or as if the land we chose to live on might be somehow right or wrong.

Yes, and then morons on this board ask "Why don't you leave, why you stay there?"

I mean, what the actual fuck? seriously.

And don't forget, to the Jews living in the US the anti semitic pigs will say, "why don't you go to israel and fight for the IDF?"

 

[Lipush]

In 1936 they called- "Jews! GO TO PALESTINE!"

In 2014 they reproach- "Jews! GET OUT OF PALESTINE!"

What the hell do they want?...

 

[teddyearp]

I support Israel. Ever since they were expelled from their home around 70CE everywhere else in the world they have been persecuted and treated mostly like second class citizens.

When the Ottoman's and then the British were in charge of the region, the Jews/Israelis/Hebrews (whatever you want to call them) they were invited to create a homeland for themselves in the land that used to be called Israel at one time. A home of their own. that is the one place where they can live in their own country as they still get persecuted elsewhere to this day.

I do wish that the Palestinians could have had a homeland for themselves, but I fear it is too late, the eggs are too well scrambled, the genie is too far out of the bottle. The leadership that the Palestinians have had for the last 50+ years have now created a monster in the indoctrination of hate for the Jews that they have instilled. I believe that the hatred back from the Jews is a reflection and reaction to this.

 

[Beelzebub]

I support Israel. Ever since they were expelled from their home around 70CE everywhere else in the world they have been persecuted and treated mostly like second class citizens.

When the Ottoman's and then the British were in charge of the region, the Jews/Israelis/Hebrews (whatever you want to call them) they were invited to create a homeland for themselves in the land that used to be called Israel at one time. A home of their own. that is the one place where they can live in their own country as they still get persecuted elsewhere to this day.

I do wish that the Palestinians could have had a homeland for themselves, but I fear it is too late, the eggs are too well scrambled, the genie is too far out of the bottle. The leadership that the Palestinians have had for the last 50+ years have now created a monster in the indoctrination of hate for the Jews that they have instilled. I believe that the hatred back from the Jews is a reflection and reaction to this.

I love it how every nonsense post like this from Teddy is followed by:

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth - Lenin"

And he really tries to live up to that.

 

[Roudy]

In 1936 they called- "Jews! GO TO PALESTINE!"

In 2014 they reproach- "Jews! GET OUT OF PALESTINE!"

What the hell do they want?...

 

[teddyearp]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth - Lenin"

I fixed my sig line just for you.

Humanity, IMHO you are fast loosing any credibility when you allow folks like Beezlebub, Monti, Penelope, etc. to go against the theme of your thread, yet call others who are pro Israel in for it.

 

[Beelzebub]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth - Lenin"

I fixed my sig line just for you.

Humanity, IMHO you are fast loosing any credibility when you allow folks like Beezlebub, Monti, Penelope, etc. to go against the theme of your thread, yet call others who are pro Israel in for it.

Funnier!
Repeat that a lot Teddy. As much as you can. Maybe it will become true.
However, the quote will be Lenin, not me.

As to 'credibility' ... you who came here pretending you were 'neutral' on the I/P topic, then we find not only do you argue for the manifest fascism of Israel's occupation and murders, but you are professionally employed to send tourists to Israel to help bolster their theft-and-handout-based economy.

You began with no credibility, and have reduced it since.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Israel can only survive in a corrupted international system.
It has striven to further corrupt the world at a time when there were various moves (post WWII) to make sure there are strong international institutional bodies championing consistent and generally fair laws.

Yeah, lets step away from the Protocols there buddy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't agree that the only solution for violence is violence. It leads to a vicious downward spiral, as we have seen...

So, tell the PLO that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I take one look at the changes in the map and well I think its obvious, also the one who built the fence. I am on the side of the oppressed which are the Palestinians.

Which begs the question: how are they being oppressed?

The answer is that they are being oppressed by their own government, not by Israel. Palestine consists of a veritable cornucopia of human rights violations. Do you see any of that going on in Israel?

 

[TemplarKormac]

So your third generation then, many Pals have more generations behind them. As you said
" Ashkenazi immigrant Jews" you are immigrants. I understand your position but the actions of your government I do not agree with, and well to be frank, not knowing your age, you can't deny that your gov had been confiscating the land of the Pals for years, and your family has helped in that.

And, as Saigon said, just what stake do you hold in this conflict? He makes a compelling argument here. Unless you are a member of either or, your objections to Israeli actions are irrelevant.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No name calling, no propaganda Dogmaphobe

For future reference, see your sig line. Bias much? If you wanted this thread to be objective, you wouldn't be siding with anyone.

 

[TemplarKormac]

As it stands now, many Palestinians lack not only a homeland, but citizenship in any state.

All they need do is apply for citizenship in Israel. Its immigration policy is rather non discriminatory. There are Arabs and Jews living there peacefully.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Palestinians need to be involved in any negotiations that discuss their fate

The Palestinians are not interested in their 'fate,' they are concerned with the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with such deep seated hatred?

 

[Beelzebub]

Israel can only survive in a corrupted international system.
It has striven to further corrupt the world at a time when there were various moves (post WWII) to make sure there are strong international institutional bodies championing consistent and generally fair laws.

Yeah, lets step away from the Protocols there buddy.

What protocols?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Jewish settlers were killing the locals from the moment they started migrating to Palestine in the late 1800s.

Aren't you forgetting the 1929 Hebron massacre? Arabs killed 67 Jews there. Perhaps you forgot the Arab Revolt of 1936-39, 300 Jews died in the revolt.

Then you have the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, conspiring with Hitler to kill Jews:

A picture taken in 1943 of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el-Husseini reviewing Bosnian-Muslim troops - a unit of the "Hanjar (Saber) Division" of the Waffen SS which he personally recruited for Hitler.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Israel can only survive in a corrupted international system.
It has striven to further corrupt the world at a time when there were various moves (post WWII) to make sure there are strong international institutional bodies championing consistent and generally fair laws.

Yeah, lets step away from the Protocols there buddy.

What protocols?

You're kidding, right? What you are being spoon fed is this:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia