What makes you support one or the other?

[Dogmaphobe]

They were not included in the Camp David Accords.

Camp David offered them a state of their own.

This so-called "right" of return would offer them Israel. I realize you support overwhelming Israel with those who have been terrorizing Jews for over 80 years, but that just ain't gonna happen.

 

[Coyote]

They were not included in the Camp David Accords.

Camp David offered them a state of their own.

This so-called "right" of return would offer them Israel. I realize you support overwhelming Israel with those who have been terrorizing Jews for over 80 years, but that just ain't gonna happen.

The "right of return" isn't the point. There are other issues as well, for example Jerusalem. But the main thing is you can not negotiate away the rights of people with their participation. The "right of return" is not going to happen, beyond a few - but it needs to be part of the negotians and the Palestinians need to be involved in any negotiations that discuss their fate.

And, you are wrong about what I support.

 

[Humanity]

They were not included in the Camp David Accords.

Camp David offered them a state of their own.

This so-called "right" of return would offer them Israel. I realize you support overwhelming Israel with those who have been terrorizing Jews for over 80 years, but that just ain't gonna happen.

I think the point is that the agreement was made without the Palestinians...

It's a little bit like my friend and I deciding for you without you being part of the discussions.

 

[toastman]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

 

[Humanity]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Unless we can ALL quit harking back to ancient history there is very little point in discussing anything.

100 years ago the Germans killed a large number of my family. Should I still mention it at every opportunity whenever I meet a German?

I am an immigrant. I live in a country that is not my homeland. I am very much a minority here. Yes I do face racism from time to time, but I also make every effort to be part of the community, part of the country that I live in. Whatever 'history' there has been really doesn't make a difference, it's what the future holds that matters.

 

[toastman]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Unless we can ALL quit harking back to ancient history there is very little point in discussing anything.

100 years ago the Germans killed a large number of my family. Should I still mention it at every opportunity whenever I meet a German?

I am an immigrant. I live in a country that is not my homeland. I am very much a minority here. Yes I do face racism from time to time, but I also make every effort to be part of the community, part of the country that I live in. Whatever 'history' there has been really doesn't make a difference, it's what the future holds that matters.

I was just refuting Beezle's post

 

[Beelzebub]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Unless we can ALL quit harking back to ancient history there is very little point in discussing anything.

100 years ago the Germans killed a large number of my family. Should I still mention it at every opportunity whenever I meet a German?

I am an immigrant. I live in a country that is not my homeland. I am very much a minority here. Yes I do face racism from time to time, but I also make every effort to be part of the community, part of the country that I live in. Whatever 'history' there has been really doesn't make a difference, it's what the future holds that matters.

I was just refuting Beezle's post

You never refute anything Toasty. You just waffle on, missing the point, and making dodgy statements which don't reflect on the issues.

But carry on. Your total faith in your posts is fascinating.

 

[Humanity]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Unless we can ALL quit harking back to ancient history there is very little point in discussing anything.

100 years ago the Germans killed a large number of my family. Should I still mention it at every opportunity whenever I meet a German?

I am an immigrant. I live in a country that is not my homeland. I am very much a minority here. Yes I do face racism from time to time, but I also make every effort to be part of the community, part of the country that I live in. Whatever 'history' there has been really doesn't make a difference, it's what the future holds that matters.

I was just refuting Beezle's post

Which I understand...

And my comment is directed at ALL... Not just you...

It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?

The road to peace is one way, FORWARD...

Does it REALLY matter how long one or the other was living on a patch of land?

Not really, it doesn't, it doesn't change the here and now, the situation that we are all passionate about.

 

[montelatici]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Jewish settlers were killing the locals from the moment they started migrating to Palestine in the late 1800s. In any case, the indigenous people defending their lands and homes from an invasion of people from another continent can't, by definition, be the aggressor. It's Orwellian double-speak to call the inidgenous Christians and Muslims the aggressors. It would be like calling the native americans the aggressors because they resisted the Spanish, French and British settlers.

 

[Beelzebub]

...........
It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?
....

If I punch you on the nose, there is no point in retaliating. Its futile point out that I punched you on the nose. Its in the past.
Then I take out a knife and cut your fingers off. However, that is now in the past. Why do you keep bringing it up?
After I gouge out an eye, I would ask, "What's your problem? You may remember a time that you had two eyes, but that is not relevant any longer, as it cannot be undone."

Alternatively ... It matters.

 

[Roudy]

I thought this might an interesting topic...

It appears that there are a great many people involved on this forum who have little or NO connection with Israel or the Palestinians yet have incredibly strong views one side or the other...

So, without any name calling or propaganda, if thats possible...

I have no connection with either Israel or the Palestinians. I have been to Israel and it's neighbouring countries.

I support the plight of the Palestinian people NOT their leaders, Hamas. I have many Jewish friends, Muslim friends and friends of many other religions...

I do not support nor condone any form of violence or terrorism from either side.

My support for the Palestinian people is in the hope that one day, there will be peace in the region and where there is no oppression, no fear...

The occupation of territories by Israel needs to be addressed. The 'blockade' of Gaza should end and a genuine path to a proper solution should be sought, unconditionally.

Do I have the answers? No.

I consider that both side have 'extremists' who block the path to peace, mainly for their own agendas. I do feel that, from the Muslim extremist side, they do not want to have Israel there, from the Israeli side they do not want Muslims there... Both extremists want to see the demise of the other. In what ever form that takes.

Please, if you have nothing interesting to contribute, simply move along rather than posting hate and propaganda, that applies to all!

But you haven't told us WHY you only support one of the sides. You just told us the concerns of one side, that is, the occupation needs to be addressed, and the blockade removed. Whoop de doo. Come at us when you are completely honest with yourself and others.

 

[Roudy]

Always easy to say how we don't support violence when not being threatened by it ourselves. But eventually you can't keep pulling back or withdrawing because your aggressor keeps advancing on you. Sometimes you have to fight, and that's where Israel's at.

Israel fought from before its inception because it IS the aggressor.

False. Jews were massacred several times before any Arab was killed, dating back to before 1900.
Also, the first war Israel fought was the 1948 Arab Israeli war which was instigated by 5 Arab nations.

Jewish settlers were killing the locals from the moment they started migrating to Palestine in the late 1800s. In any case, the indigenous people defending their lands and homes from an invasion of people from another continent can't, by definition, be the aggressor. It's Orwellian double-speak to call the inidgenous Christians and Muslims the aggressors. It would be like calling the native americans the aggressors because they resisted the Spanish, French and British settlers.

You keep referring to hundreds of thousands of Muslim Arabs that invaded the region when the Jews started migrating, as "indigenous people".

 

[Humanity]

I thought this might an interesting topic...

It appears that there are a great many people involved on this forum who have little or NO connection with Israel or the Palestinians yet have incredibly strong views one side or the other...

So, without any name calling or propaganda, if thats possible...

I have no connection with either Israel or the Palestinians. I have been to Israel and it's neighbouring countries.

I support the plight of the Palestinian people NOT their leaders, Hamas. I have many Jewish friends, Muslim friends and friends of many other religions...

I do not support nor condone any form of violence or terrorism from either side.

My support for the Palestinian people is in the hope that one day, there will be peace in the region and where there is no oppression, no fear...

The occupation of territories by Israel needs to be addressed. The 'blockade' of Gaza should end and a genuine path to a proper solution should be sought, unconditionally.

Do I have the answers? No.

I consider that both side have 'extremists' who block the path to peace, mainly for their own agendas. I do feel that, from the Muslim extremist side, they do not want to have Israel there, from the Israeli side they do not want Muslims there... Both extremists want to see the demise of the other. In what ever form that takes.

Please, if you have nothing interesting to contribute, simply move along rather than posting hate and propaganda, that applies to all!

But you haven't told us WHY you only support one of the sides. You just told us the concerns of one side, that is, the occupation needs to be addressed, and the blockade removed. Whoop de doo. Come at us when you are completely honest with yourself and others.

I want a free Palestine, a free Israel and above all else, I want peace...

 

[Roudy]

...........
It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?
....

If I punch you on the nose, there is no point in retaliating. Its futile point out that I punched you on the nose. Its in the past.
Then I take out a knife and cut your fingers off. However, that is now in the past. Why do you keep bringing it up?
After I gouge out an eye, I would ask, "What's your problem? You may remember a time that you had two eyes, but that is not relevant any longer, as it cannot be undone."

Alternatively ... It matters.

All this blabber, and you still forget that it was the Muslim Arabs that drew first blood by massacring the ancient Jews of Hebron in 1929. It was that genocide and ethnic cleansing by Muslims, led and instigated by the Nazi Mufti, that initiated a civil war between the Jews and Arabs in the land. The Jews won that civil war, managed to rightfully and legally re-establish a state in their religious and ancestral homeland. Right after this event, five Arab nations joined in an attack along with the rest of the Arabs already inside Israel, to destroy the Jewish state. It was never about establishing this so called "Palestine". There would have never been a Palestine had the Arabs succeeded. That's how phoney baloney this Palestinian cause is. Needless to say, the Arabs lost, over and over, yet it didn't stop them from continuing to use and victimize the so called Palestinians in their quest to destroy the Jewish state.

True story dude.

 

[Humanity]

...........
It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?
....

If I punch you on the nose, there is no point in retaliating. Its futile point out that I punched you on the nose. Its in the past.
Then I take out a knife and cut your fingers off. However, that is now in the past. Why do you keep bringing it up?
After I gouge out an eye, I would ask, "What's your problem? You may remember a time that you had two eyes, but that is not relevant any longer, as it cannot be undone."

Alternatively ... It matters.

Rather a lame retort coming from you Beezlebub...

If you punch me on the nose right now, that is a conflict, not in the past, that is in the present.

 

[Roudy]

I thought this might an interesting topic...

It appears that there are a great many people involved on this forum who have little or NO connection with Israel or the Palestinians yet have incredibly strong views one side or the other...

So, without any name calling or propaganda, if thats possible...

I have no connection with either Israel or the Palestinians. I have been to Israel and it's neighbouring countries.

I support the plight of the Palestinian people NOT their leaders, Hamas. I have many Jewish friends, Muslim friends and friends of many other religions...

I do not support nor condone any form of violence or terrorism from either side.

My support for the Palestinian people is in the hope that one day, there will be peace in the region and where there is no oppression, no fear...

The occupation of territories by Israel needs to be addressed. The 'blockade' of Gaza should end and a genuine path to a proper solution should be sought, unconditionally.

Do I have the answers? No.

I consider that both side have 'extremists' who block the path to peace, mainly for their own agendas. I do feel that, from the Muslim extremist side, they do not want to have Israel there, from the Israeli side they do not want Muslims there... Both extremists want to see the demise of the other. In what ever form that takes.

Please, if you have nothing interesting to contribute, simply move along rather than posting hate and propaganda, that applies to all!

But you haven't told us WHY you only support one of the sides. You just told us the concerns of one side, that is, the occupation needs to be addressed, and the blockade removed. Whoop de doo. Come at us when you are completely honest with yourself and others.

I want a free Palestine, a free Israel and above all else, I want peace...

You want the blockade stopped, right? What is causing the blockade? You want the occupation addressed? What happened that led to the occupation? Why was it not enough for Arabs when Israel wasn't in Gaza or the West Bank for 20 years, and the Arabs didn't create this Palestinian state? Ask yourself those questions, and you will see why we are where we are today. Like you said there is no answer, and probably never will be. One side will eventually capitulate like all wars in history, and right now it looks like the Israelis will be on the winning side. The Palestinians had plenty of opportunities to have a peace deal with the Israelis just like Jordan and Egypt, in return for land, ie Camp David, etc. but each time they walked away because their leadership as usual is delusional and terroristic and wants all of Israel gone. Now it's too late for a peace deal in my opinion.

 

[Beelzebub]

...........
It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?
....

If I punch you on the nose, there is no point in retaliating. Its futile point out that I punched you on the nose. Its in the past.
Then I take out a knife and cut your fingers off. However, that is now in the past. Why do you keep bringing it up?
After I gouge out an eye, I would ask, "What's your problem? You may remember a time that you had two eyes, but that is not relevant any longer, as it cannot be undone."

Alternatively ... It matters.

Rather a lame retort coming from you Beezlebub...

If you punch me on the nose right now, that is a conflict, not in the past, that is in the present.

It was no retort Humanity.
It is a different perspective to yours. Pardon me if you prefer not to be exposed to them.

 

[Humanity]

...........
It does seem pretty futile going back in time, I mean, just how far does anyone want to go back, making the same claims, making the same accusations?
....

If I punch you on the nose, there is no point in retaliating. Its futile point out that I punched you on the nose. Its in the past.
Then I take out a knife and cut your fingers off. However, that is now in the past. Why do you keep bringing it up?
After I gouge out an eye, I would ask, "What's your problem? You may remember a time that you had two eyes, but that is not relevant any longer, as it cannot be undone."

Alternatively ... It matters.

Rather a lame retort coming from you Beezlebub...

If you punch me on the nose right now, that is a conflict, not in the past, that is in the present.

It was no retort Humanity.
It is a different perspective to yours. Pardon me if you prefer not to be exposed to them.

There is an acceptable difference between past, present and future...

 

[Beelzebub]

There is no such thing as The Present.
Except at Christmas.

 

[Roudy]

Funny, you Pali supporters can't even keep it together in a thread dedicated to non confrontational dialogue. Hence one of the major the problem with the conflict in general. There is nobody real to negotiate with on the Pali side. They can't decide if they want to continue on this futile path of terrorism and total destruction of Israel, or hiding it.