What is 'Zionism'?

[Stryder50]

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This is around 600 years old. German christian, I believe. Which is ironic.

Not so ironic when one considers it was the Jews who objected to Christ and got the Romans to crucify him.

 

[TNHarley]

Not so ironic when one considers it was the Jews who objected to Christ and got the Romans to crucify him.

I meant the german christian part..

 

[Churchill]

I feel I am living among budding Nazis,

You are, they are mostly trump supporters too, not Muslims, not immigrants, not anti-Zionists in this forum, but home grown white supremacist Americans in a state near you:

There is no symbol, no slogan more antisemitic than that flag.

as the indoctrinated set up “No Jew Zones,” chant “Death to Jews,” and beat up Jewish kids at the local public schools.

You need to stop whining about fake antisemitism and wake up to the real dangers, you fool. Those guys above don't give two shags about Israel, they hate Jews, they hate them, that's what the ******* flag is for you idiot.

 

[TNHarley]

You are, they are mostly trump supporters too, not Muslims, not immigrants, not anti-Zionists in this forum, but home grown white supremacist Americans in a state near you:

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There is no symbol, no slogan more antisemitic than that flag.



You need to stop whining about fake antisemitism and wake up to the real dangers, you fool. Those guys above don't give two shags about Israel, they hate Jews, they hate them, that's what the ******* flag is for you idiot.

TBF

Tens of thousands of muslims also helped the NAZI party during WW2. Islam has hated Judaism since they rejected muhammad.

 

[rosends]

I would have thought that all Jews..at least the religious ones--were 'Zionists'?

L'shana haba'ah b'Yerushalayim

Next Year in Jerusalem, right?

The issue is the conflating of different notions of Zionism.

ALL religious Jews are religious Zionists.

Most religious Jews are also political Zionists.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You are, they are mostly trump supporters too, not Muslims, not immigrants, not anti-Zionists in this forum, but home grown white supremacist Americans in a state near you:

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There is no symbol, no slogan more antisemitic than that flag.



You need to stop whining about fake antisemitism and wake up to the real dangers, you fool. Those guys above don't give two shags about Israel, they hate Jews, they hate them, that's what the ******* flag is for you idiot.

So, you expect her to focus on a few Neo-Nazis who a marginalized, impotent and not supported by the general public instead of you Muslims who hold the same views towards Jews but number well over a billion, are very powerful and have extensive support throughout the west.

Got it.

 

[Lisa558]

So, you expect her to focus on a few Neo-Nazis who a marginalized, impotent and not supported by the general public instead of you Muslims who hold the same views towards Jews but number well over a billion, are very powerful and have extensive support throughout the west.

Got it.

They always do that - give examples of some neo-Nazis who have no power and are on the fringes of society, and ignore how the Left has mainstreamed antisemitism to the point that college students chant “Death to Jews!!” and the leftist college presidents refuse to condemn it.

 

[Churchill]

They always do that - give examples of some neo-Nazis who have no power and are on the fringes of society, and ignore how the Left has mainstreamed antisemitism to the point that college students chant “Death to Jews!!” and the leftist college presidents refuse to condemn it.

 

[Churchill]

TBF
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Tens of thousands of muslims also helped the NAZI party during WW2. Islam has hated Judaism since they rejected muhammad.

Many victims of Israeli apartheid perceive the Zionists as latter day Nazis, there are many ideological parallels, they do sometimes parade with that concept in mind, overlapping Israel flag with a Swastika. I do not approve, the symbol is specific to the Nazis and it serves no good to resort to it, but that is the reason not an innate hatred of Jews but a hatred of a Jewish that treats Palestinians as animals just as the Nazis did to Jews.

Example

Arab states did align with the Nazis but not because of hatred of Jews (for which there is no historical evidence before the early 20th century) but because of hatred of British who betrayed the Arabs after WW1.

 

[TNHarley]

Many victims of Israeli apartheid perceive the Zionists as latter day Nazis, there are many ideological parallels, they do sometimes parade with that concept in mind, overlapping Israel flag with a Swastika. I do not approve, the symbol is specific to the Nazis and it serves no good to resort to it, but that is the reason not an innate hatred of Jews but a hatred of a Jewish that treats Palestinians as animals just as the Nazis did to Jews.

Example

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Arab states did align with the Nazis but not because of hatred of Jews (for which there is no historical evidence before the early 20th century) but because of hatred of British who betrayed the Arabs after WW1.

Ok so what about jewish hatred before they displaced all those people?
Again, islamists have hated jews since they rejected their pedophile back when he was alive.
They aligned with them because the NAZIs put propaganda out all over the arab states. They even created groups within those arab states to feed them there propaganda.

 

[Churchill]

So, you expect her to focus on a few Neo-Nazis who a marginalized, impotent and not supported by the general public instead of you Muslims who hold the same views towards Jews but number well over a billion, are very powerful and have extensive support throughout the west.

There is no evidence at all for any Arab antisemitism until after the WW1 when Zionist ideology began to threaten Arabs who lived in Palestine. Arabs and Jews lived in proximity for centuries, no mass slaughter. More Jews were killed by Christians in fact during the crusades do we conclude that all Christian are rabid antisemites?

So spout it all day but there is no historic evidence, what you can find evidence for is that antisemitism is accepted to have arisen with Christian Europe, it was Christians that invented it

Finally (and neanderthals like you always fail to answer this one) if Arabs in Palestine had been antismites for centuries then why would any Jew ever choose to move there? what Jew would say "Yes, that's a good idea, our own country at last and yes lets put it right slap bang in the center of a huge population of antisemitic Arabs."

Answer? there was no history of antisemitism only small scale skirmishes and clashes initiated by both sides, bit not a deep seated hatred of Jews, that is a lie and the Zionists tell that lie every day because the entire state of Israel is based on lies and fear and terrorism and hatred.

 

[Churchill]

Ok so what about jewish hatred before they displaced all those people?

I don't understand? hatred by or toward Jews?

Again, islamists have hated jews since they rejected their pedophile back when he was alive.

Please explain, what historic event are you referring to?

They aligned with them because the NAZIs put propaganda out all over the arab states. They even created groups within those arab states to feed them there propaganda.

Jews tried to align with the Nazis, go and check.

This is the biggest lie spouted by the Zionists, a fabricated victimhood where everyone is expected to show the same sympathy for Jews who clash with Arabs as people showed for Jews who clashed with Nazis.

If you really aren't familiar with this, understand that there are many informed educated Jews who say it, I learned it FROM Jews. Listen to the man all of his relatives except his parents and siblings were exterminated, you should at least consider what he has to say:

 

[TNHarley]

Please explain, what historic event are you referring to?

When muhammad went to medina during hijra. They rejected his prophethood. That soon got involved with politics, and muhammad went after the jewish tribes there.

Jews tried to align with the Nazis, go and check.

I know.

This is the biggest lie spouted by the Zionists, a fabricated victimhood where everyone is expected to show the same sympathy for Jews who clash with Arabs as people showed for Jews who clashed with Nazis.

What I said indeed happened. And I am no zionist.

 

[Churchill]

When muhammad went to medina during hijra. They rejected his prophethood. That soon got involved with politics, and muhammad went after the jewish tribes there.

I think you're referring to the Siege of Banu Qurayza? Well that can't be described as antisemitism because prior to the siege the Jews (Banu Qurayza) has been collaborating with Muhammad. This was a military event, and we would never say today that Americans despize Germans because they fought each other once, it's documented as treason not a theological dispute and the Arabs reacting violenty to that.

I know.

What I said indeed happened. And I am no zionist.

Well the siege did indeed take place, but that is not antisemitism. Perhaps you are referring to some other event?

 

[TNHarley]

I think you're referring to the Siege of Banu Qurayza? Well that can't be described as antisemitism because prior to the siege the Jews (Banu Qurayza) has been collaborating with Muhammad. This was a military event, and we would never say today that Americans despize Germans because they fought each other once.

Well the siege did indeed take place, but that is not antisemitism. Perhaps you are referring to some other event?

No, that was several years after. But it was a part of it. But the rejection happened almost immediately. Then the jews started rejecting his "constitution" because they didnt believe he was a prophet.
This happened as soon as he got to mecca in 622.
Here is AI
When Muhammad migrated from Mecca to Yathrib (later called Medina) in 622 CE—the Hijrah—the city was home to Arab tribes (mainly Aws and Khazraj) and several Jewish tribes (commonly named in Islamic sources as Banu Qaynuqa, Banu Nadir, and Banu Qurayza).

Importantly:
✔ These groups had long-standing local rivalries
✔ Alliances predated Muhammad
✔ Not all Jews or all Arabs acted as a single bloc

Banu Qaynuqa (c. 624)​

After the Battle of Badr, tensions escalated. Muhammad expelled the tribe from Medina following accusations of pact violation and escalating disputes.
— They left for the region of Syria.

Banu Nadir (c. 625)​

Accused of plotting to assassinate Muhammad. After a siege, they were expelled.
— They relocated to Khaybar.

Banu Qurayza (c. 627)​

During the Battle of the Trench, they were accused of allying with Quraysh against Medina.
After a negotiated arbitration by Sa’d ibn Muʿādh, their men were executed and the rest enslaved—a harsh but not uncommon Arabian tribal penalty at that time.


I wouldnt call this antisemitism though. He would have obliterated anyone that didnt believe in him.

 

[rosends]

There is no evidence at all for any Arab antisemitism until after the WW1 when Zionist ideology began to threaten Arabs who lived in Palestine. Arabs and Jews lived in proximity for centuries, no mass slaughter

I was looking for some stuff online and the search engine spit out this list

Key Pre-1917 Attacks and Events:

• 1517 Safed Attacks: Violence against the Jewish community in Safed.
• 17th Century (1679–1680) Yemen: The Mawza Exile saw the Zaydi Imam of Yemen, Al-Mahdi Ahmad, banish Jews from most cities and towns to a desolate coastal plain.
• 1834 Looting of Safed: A month-long attack during the Peasants' Revolt, involving looting, rape, and destruction of Jewish homes and synagogues in Safed.
• 1838 Druze Attack on Safed: Local Druze raided the Jewish community of Safed during the Druze revolt.
• 1840 Damascus Affair: A blood libel case following the disappearance of a friar. Jews were tortured, causing deaths and prompting widespread attacks against Jewish communities in the region.
• 19th Century North Africa: In 1834, Fez, Morocco, witnessed the public execution of Sol Hachuel, a Jewish woman who refused to convert to Islam. Additionally, periodic riots and restrictions occurred in Tunisia, such as the reinstatement of dhimmi laws following anti-Jewish riots that lasted until 1869.

 

[Churchill]

I was looking for some stuff online and the search engine spit out this list

Key Pre-1917 Attacks and Events:

• 1517 Safed Attacks: Violence against the Jewish community in Safed.
• 17th Century (1679–1680) Yemen: The Mawza Exile saw the Zaydi Imam of Yemen, Al-Mahdi Ahmad, banish Jews from most cities and towns to a desolate coastal plain.
• 1834 Looting of Safed: A month-long attack during the Peasants' Revolt, involving looting, rape, and destruction of Jewish homes and synagogues in Safed.
• 1838 Druze Attack on Safed: Local Druze raided the Jewish community of Safed during the Druze revolt.
• 1840 Damascus Affair: A blood libel case following the disappearance of a friar. Jews were tortured, causing deaths and prompting widespread attacks against Jewish communities in the region.
• 19th Century North Africa: In 1834, Fez, Morocco, witnessed the public execution of Sol Hachuel, a Jewish woman who refused to convert to Islam. Additionally, periodic riots and restrictions occurred in Tunisia, such as the reinstatement of dhimmi laws following anti-Jewish riots that lasted until 1869.

Exactly, there's no evidence of systemic antisemitism.

1517 - Events arising from a regime collapse no religious element, not pogroms
1679 - Yes a barbaric act, but there was a context and wasn't antisemtism.
1834 - Yes more killings but again there was a context, suspcions of Jews aligning with Egypt.
1838 - Yes, local skirmishes during a rebellion not antisemitism
1849 - Yes a good example of Christian antisemitism, the "blood libel" a new phenomenon.
1834 - Morocco, yes anti Jewish violence durig rebellions, again local political tensions.

These were local events, not evidence of endemic Jew hatred.

 

[Churchill]

This is Ziomsim, terrorism, began after WW1 in Palestine and has been the bedrock upon which the State of Israel has been built.

Criticisim is met with violence - that's the hallmark of Zionism.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/suspected-jewish-extremist-charged-in-plot-against-palestinian-activist-7902688b

 

[TimFitz]

Islam is an ideology.

Jews are a people.

Islam is a religion (the world’s largest). Judaism is a religion, too.

Despite your mischaracterizations.

 

[TimFitz]

TBF
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Tens of thousands of muslims also helped the NAZI party during WW2. Islam has hated Judaism since they rejected muhammad.

They did. The Nazi’s cultivated and equipped their armies during WWII, and did a big trade in war surplus German ordinance for a long time after WWII.

Ex-NAZIs were reportedly involved in supporting the Egyptian nuclear program under Nasser.