What is “Trumpism”?

[martybegan]

No explanation to back up your observation, just TDS ****-trabble

No explanation necessary beyond observing an old, fat, stupid, lazy criminal in the WH on a daily basis

There you go proving the concept.

 

[colfax_m]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

 

[22lcidw]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Kinda like how y’all use “TDS” to ignore any alternative opinions and facts?

TDS accusations ignore nothing, they just point out rote hatred of Trump without basis on what he is actually doing.

Oh goodness are you mistaken. TDS is an ad hominem and once labeled, all argument from such a person is summarily ignored regardless of merit.

Happens daily.

It's a valid observation that with regards to Trump, some posters cannot see anything he does as right, or even neutral. Everything he does it wrong, and it's not because of politics, it's because he's the most evil person on the planet, just like the last Republican President was, and the one before that (not now of course, now they are shining examples of "good" republicans, it was only back then that they were ChimpyMcHilterDevilBush/Bush/Reagan. )

It’s far more often an ad hominem used only to squash criticism.

lazy.

If you check my posting history it's usually used as a first response to a rambling baseless "Orange Man Bad" screed by a TDS suffering moron.

I'll gladly discuss any topic you want in the CDZ. However shitposts with no value beyond progressive ragecrying will be given only the scorn they deserve in the open zones.

This isn’t just about you, obviously.

Take this article for example, it was posted here recently.

How Democrats’ Trump Derangement Syndrome is literally killing people

I’ve generally tried to stay out of the hydroxychloroquine debate. My hesitation has been for one reason and one reason only: I have no degree in medicine.

m.washingtontimes.com

See, if I don’t think that hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID, I have TDS. That’s the only reason I would believe such a thing. It’s not that I might have a medical degree, that I’ve done a full examination of the evidence. It’s not that I’ve looked at the numerous RCTs which failed to show a benefit. It’s not that the FDA pulled its emergency approval due to lack of efficacy.

I have TDS and the person who has no medical education says I’m killing thousands of people because of it.

TDS is assuming Cholorquinine will never work just because Trump said it MIGHT, and now you are locked into denying it will EVER work just because of that.

Who said that it would never work just because of Trump?

When Trump was saying it could be the biggest game changer in the history of medicine, I was saying that it was too soon to tell and it was. The criticism of Trump early on was that he was going to far in describing its evidence.

And now the Trump faithful can not admit that if doesn’t work because they’re so locked in to supporting Trump.

But do you understand my criticism of the article? The author is using TDS to explain away the scientific process that didn’t go the way Trump wanted.

Trump can be wrong on issues. Its not about Trumpism. It is about the alternative. He may not sound like it to you, but he is a positive person in his dealings. That is he goes into the agenda in that frame of mind. Once the negativity starts and does not abate, it morphs into a new game. This is 99% of Trump. When he ran for President he did initiate negativity. Of course that is what all the politicians do.

 

[martybegan]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

 

[Mac1958]

"TDS" = "ODS = "I don't want to discuss it".

The two ends can be so damn similar.

 

[dblack]

The anti-intellectual, anti-science thing is a large part of Trumpism. Which is, ironically, the only thing they get right. At least in terms of recognizing their enemies.

 

[martybegan]

The anti-intellectual, anti-science thing is a large part of Trumpism. Which is, ironically, the only thing they get right. At least in terms of recognizing their enemies.

Anti-unearned intellectualism, and anti-abused science.

When the fringe on one side can say 2+2 does not always equal 4 you can't claim to be intellectual. When one side boys can be girls and vice versa you can't claim to be pro-science.

 

[colfax_m]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

 

[martybegan]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

 

[colfax_m]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Kinda like how y’all use “TDS” to ignore any alternative opinions and facts?

TDS accusations ignore nothing, they just point out rote hatred of Trump without basis on what he is actually doing.

Oh goodness are you mistaken. TDS is an ad hominem and once labeled, all argument from such a person is summarily ignored regardless of merit.

Happens daily.

It's a valid observation that with regards to Trump, some posters cannot see anything he does as right, or even neutral. Everything he does it wrong, and it's not because of politics, it's because he's the most evil person on the planet, just like the last Republican President was, and the one before that (not now of course, now they are shining examples of "good" republicans, it was only back then that they were ChimpyMcHilterDevilBush/Bush/Reagan. )

It’s far more often an ad hominem used only to squash criticism.

lazy.

If you check my posting history it's usually used as a first response to a rambling baseless "Orange Man Bad" screed by a TDS suffering moron.

I'll gladly discuss any topic you want in the CDZ. However shitposts with no value beyond progressive ragecrying will be given only the scorn they deserve in the open zones.

This isn’t just about you, obviously.

Take this article for example, it was posted here recently.

How Democrats’ Trump Derangement Syndrome is literally killing people

I’ve generally tried to stay out of the hydroxychloroquine debate. My hesitation has been for one reason and one reason only: I have no degree in medicine.

m.washingtontimes.com

See, if I don’t think that hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID, I have TDS. That’s the only reason I would believe such a thing. It’s not that I might have a medical degree, that I’ve done a full examination of the evidence. It’s not that I’ve looked at the numerous RCTs which failed to show a benefit. It’s not that the FDA pulled its emergency approval due to lack of efficacy.

I have TDS and the person who has no medical education says I’m killing thousands of people because of it.

TDS is assuming Cholorquinine will never work just because Trump said it MIGHT, and now you are locked into denying it will EVER work just because of that.

Who said that it would never work just because of Trump?

When Trump was saying it could be the biggest game changer in the history of medicine, I was saying that it was too soon to tell and it was. The criticism of Trump early on was that he was going to far in describing its evidence.

And now the Trump faithful can not admit that if doesn’t work because they’re so locked in to supporting Trump.

But do you understand my criticism of the article? The author is using TDS to explain away the scientific process that didn’t go the way Trump wanted.

Trump can be wrong on issues. Its not about Trumpism. It is about the alternative. He may not sound like it to you, but he is a positive person in his dealings. That is he goes into the agenda in that frame of mind. Once the negativity starts and does not abate, it morphs into a new game. This is 99% of Trump. When he ran for President he did initiate negativity. Of course that is what all the politicians do.

It's okay to be wrong about something. I don't have a problem with being wrong. I have a problem with refusing to acknowledge when you're wrong. That's Trumpism. Never admit anything.

 

[colfax_m]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

 

[martybegan]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

One study, or a few studies vs. another. You take the one that agrees with your views as gospel, and ignore all others.

The actual results won't be known for years. Yet you have decided the Germans will win and have won Stalingrad based on the first few weeks of the battle.

And you do that because TRUMP HAS TO BE WRONG.

And just to make sure you know how much disdain I have for you:

colfax_m takes it up the ass doo dah, doo dah
colfax_m take sit up the ass, oh dee dooh dah day

 

[joaquinmiller]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Kinda like how y’all use “TDS” to ignore any alternative opinions and facts?

TDS accusations ignore nothing, they just point out rote hatred of Trump without basis on what he is actually doing.

Oh goodness are you mistaken. TDS is an ad hominem and once labeled, all argument from such a person is summarily ignored regardless of merit.

Happens daily.

It's a valid observation that with regards to Trump, some posters cannot see anything he does as right, or even neutral. Everything he does it wrong, and it's not because of politics, it's because he's the most evil person on the planet, just like the last Republican President was, and the one before that (not now of course, now they are shining examples of "good" republicans, it was only back then that they were ChimpyMcHilterDevilBush/Bush/Reagan. )

It’s far more often an ad hominem used only to squash criticism.

lazy.

If you check my posting history it's usually used as a first response to a rambling baseless "Orange Man Bad" screed by a TDS suffering moron.

I'll gladly discuss any topic you want in the CDZ. However shitposts with no value beyond progressive ragecrying will be given only the scorn they deserve in the open zones.

This isn’t just about you, obviously.

Take this article for example, it was posted here recently.

How Democrats’ Trump Derangement Syndrome is literally killing people

I’ve generally tried to stay out of the hydroxychloroquine debate. My hesitation has been for one reason and one reason only: I have no degree in medicine.

m.washingtontimes.com

See, if I don’t think that hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID, I have TDS. That’s the only reason I would believe such a thing. It’s not that I might have a medical degree, that I’ve done a full examination of the evidence. It’s not that I’ve looked at the numerous RCTs which failed to show a benefit. It’s not that the FDA pulled its emergency approval due to lack of efficacy.

I have TDS and the person who has no medical education says I’m killing thousands of people because of it.

TDS is a deflection - the same shopworn deflection BDS was 19 years ago. No intelligent person invokes TDS in an argument.

 

[martybegan]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Kinda like how y’all use “TDS” to ignore any alternative opinions and facts?

TDS accusations ignore nothing, they just point out rote hatred of Trump without basis on what he is actually doing.

Oh goodness are you mistaken. TDS is an ad hominem and once labeled, all argument from such a person is summarily ignored regardless of merit.

Happens daily.

It's a valid observation that with regards to Trump, some posters cannot see anything he does as right, or even neutral. Everything he does it wrong, and it's not because of politics, it's because he's the most evil person on the planet, just like the last Republican President was, and the one before that (not now of course, now they are shining examples of "good" republicans, it was only back then that they were ChimpyMcHilterDevilBush/Bush/Reagan. )

It’s far more often an ad hominem used only to squash criticism.

lazy.

If you check my posting history it's usually used as a first response to a rambling baseless "Orange Man Bad" screed by a TDS suffering moron.

I'll gladly discuss any topic you want in the CDZ. However shitposts with no value beyond progressive ragecrying will be given only the scorn they deserve in the open zones.

This isn’t just about you, obviously.

Take this article for example, it was posted here recently.

How Democrats’ Trump Derangement Syndrome is literally killing people

I’ve generally tried to stay out of the hydroxychloroquine debate. My hesitation has been for one reason and one reason only: I have no degree in medicine.

m.washingtontimes.com

See, if I don’t think that hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID, I have TDS. That’s the only reason I would believe such a thing. It’s not that I might have a medical degree, that I’ve done a full examination of the evidence. It’s not that I’ve looked at the numerous RCTs which failed to show a benefit. It’s not that the FDA pulled its emergency approval due to lack of efficacy.

I have TDS and the person who has no medical education says I’m killing thousands of people because of it.

TDS is a deflection - the same shopworn deflection BDS was 19 years ago. No intelligent person invokes TDS in an argument.

TDS is a response to posts that are obviously nothing more than reflexive Trump Bashing that is independent to what he actually did.

 

[colfax_m]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

One study, or a few studies vs. another. You take the one that agrees with your views as gospel, and ignore all others.

The actual results won't be known for years. Yet you have decided the Germans will win and have won Stalingrad based on the first few weeks of the battle.

And you do that because TRUMP HAS TO BE WRONG.

And just to make sure you know how much disdain I have for you:

colfax_m takes it up the ass doo dah, doo dah
colfax_m take sit up the ass, oh dee dooh dah day

Ha! And you pretend to be reasonable. This is exactly what I mean. TDS is used to deny facts, reality and stifle debate.

What's a better study for the efficacy of a drug for a particular infectious disease? A randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial or a retrospective observational study?

 

[martybegan]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

One study, or a few studies vs. another. You take the one that agrees with your views as gospel, and ignore all others.

The actual results won't be known for years. Yet you have decided the Germans will win and have won Stalingrad based on the first few weeks of the battle.

And you do that because TRUMP HAS TO BE WRONG.

And just to make sure you know how much disdain I have for you:

colfax_m takes it up the ass doo dah, doo dah
colfax_m take sit up the ass, oh dee dooh dah day

Ha! And you pretend to be reasonable. This is exactly what I mean. TDS is used to deny facts, reality and stifle debate.

What's a better study for the efficacy of a drug for a particular infectious disease? A randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial or a retrospective observational study?

I can be reasonable, but hacks like you don't deserve my deference.

It's amazing how you use words you barely understand.

 

[BrokeLoser]

No explanation to back up your observation, just TDS ****-trabble

No explanation necessary beyond observing an old, fat, stupid, lazy criminal in the WH on a daily basis

 

[colfax_m]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

One study, or a few studies vs. another. You take the one that agrees with your views as gospel, and ignore all others.

The actual results won't be known for years. Yet you have decided the Germans will win and have won Stalingrad based on the first few weeks of the battle.

And you do that because TRUMP HAS TO BE WRONG.

And just to make sure you know how much disdain I have for you:

colfax_m takes it up the ass doo dah, doo dah
colfax_m take sit up the ass, oh dee dooh dah day

Ha! And you pretend to be reasonable. This is exactly what I mean. TDS is used to deny facts, reality and stifle debate.

What's a better study for the efficacy of a drug for a particular infectious disease? A randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial or a retrospective observational study?

I can be reasonable, but hacks like you don't deserve my deference.

It's amazing how you use words you barely understand.

Go on, tell me how I've been a hack in this conversation? Because I've evaluated the evidence and reached the same conclusions that the FDA, NIH and IDSA all reached?

You aren't making an argument, just ad hominems.

I'm a hack because I don't agree with Trump, not because of the strength of my argument. That's Trumpism.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Kinda like how y’all use “TDS” to ignore any alternative opinions and facts?

TDS accusations ignore nothing, they just point out rote hatred of Trump without basis on what he is actually doing.

Oh goodness are you mistaken. TDS is an ad hominem and once labeled, all argument from such a person is summarily ignored regardless of merit.

Happens daily.

It's a valid observation that with regards to Trump, some posters cannot see anything he does as right, or even neutral. Everything he does it wrong, and it's not because of politics, it's because he's the most evil person on the planet, just like the last Republican President was, and the one before that (not now of course, now they are shining examples of "good" republicans, it was only back then that they were ChimpyMcHilterDevilBush/Bush/Reagan. )

It’s far more often an ad hominem used only to squash criticism.

lazy.

If you check my posting history it's usually used as a first response to a rambling baseless "Orange Man Bad" screed by a TDS suffering moron.

I'll gladly discuss any topic you want in the CDZ. However shitposts with no value beyond progressive ragecrying will be given only the scorn they deserve in the open zones.

This isn’t just about you, obviously.

Take this article for example, it was posted here recently.

How Democrats’ Trump Derangement Syndrome is literally killing people

I’ve generally tried to stay out of the hydroxychloroquine debate. My hesitation has been for one reason and one reason only: I have no degree in medicine.

m.washingtontimes.com

See, if I don’t think that hydroxychloroquine is effective against COVID, I have TDS. That’s the only reason I would believe such a thing. It’s not that I might have a medical degree, that I’ve done a full examination of the evidence. It’s not that I’ve looked at the numerous RCTs which failed to show a benefit. It’s not that the FDA pulled its emergency approval due to lack of efficacy.

I have TDS and the person who has no medical education says I’m killing thousands of people because of it.

TDS is assuming Cholorquinine will never work just because Trump said it MIGHT, and now you are locked into denying it will EVER work just because of that.

Who said that it would never work just because of Trump?

When Trump was saying it could be the biggest game changer in the history of medicine, I was saying that it was too soon to tell and it was. The criticism of Trump early on was that he was going to far in describing its evidence.

And now the Trump faithful can not admit that if doesn’t work because they’re so locked in to supporting Trump.

But do you understand my criticism of the article? The author is using TDS to explain away the scientific process that didn’t go the way Trump wanted.

There are studies that says it works, and studies that say it doesn't. There are studies with it alone, and with other compounds, like zinc or vitamin C. Considering it is a well tested drug with minimal side effects at the doses being tried, why would not using it and seeing if it worked and how be such a non-starter?

But according to the left it can't work because Trump said it might work. and they will sink with the ship to prove so.

Again, who was saying it can’t work just because of Trump?

Because there were early observational studies showing it had an effect and we DID try it early on. It was very frequently used to treat COVID patients early in the pandemic while the NIH put together a randomized clinical trial which is the told standard. The results of the NIH trial were negative and so the FDA pulled the emergency approval and it fell out of protocols for treatment as we moved on to other treatments.

Trump’s rhetoric had zero effect on that process.

But somehow this author believes that the only reason we don’t really use it anymore is TDS and what really cracks me up is the author makes this conclusion based on zero medical knowledge or experience.

TDS is the crutch to ignore reality here.

They don't have to say it, they just have to show it. You can tell by the type of response that the person isn't responding via belief in science or data, but simply in the fact that "If Comrade Trump says it, it must be false"

And you quote one round of studies showing what you want to see, and thus that is the be all end all, and you dismiss anything else about it.

"If Trump said it, it must be false" is your starting point, and you will dog pile every study that backs that up into your mind to back up your "Orange Man Bad" default viewpoint.

No, I'm not dismissing everything else. The early observational studies are what leads to randomized clinical trials, but if a RCT shows no benefit, then that's the definitive study. That's why the FDA pulled the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine. Tell me, does the FDA have TDS?

Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that the studies were negative and it's time to move on.

So one set of studies and done right?

Adoration of an authoritarian nationalist strongman.

Arrogant ignorance, bigotry, paranoia, tribalism -- disguised as patriotism.

Unintentional mockery of "conservative values" and "small government".

Day-to-day existence within an ideological bubble that considers any "news" or "information" not provided within that bubble to be "fake news".

Yeah. That's about it.

This is just an example of the construct of Trump that the left has made to justify their hatred of both Trump himself, and those who voted for (and will vote for) him.

Who needed a construct to call out shitty people and shitty values? I'll say it right to their shitty faces.

A Construct gives you a bogeyman. It just shows the collective and authoritarian nature of those who despise Trump. That and having to come up with an "ism" to describe a supposed movement created by his positions and views.

Horseshit. Cult45 aren't mysterious or deep thinkers. They're just bad pennies.

No explanation to back up your observation, just TDS ****-trabble.

3 Peer reviewed studies actually. Here's one. This is why words from the leader of the free world matter...and why he shouldn't be opening his mouth on subjects he hasn't a clue on.

Study: Hydroxychloroquine had no benefit for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, possibly closing door to use of drug

Hydroxychloroquine had no benefit for hospitalized Covid-19 patients, possibly closing door to use of drug.

www.statnews.com

Yes, Trump Defense Syndrome is rampant in this country. It has proven resistant to the drug combination of reason and common sense.

 

[martybegan]

So one set of studies and done right?

Well, no. It took a while to get to that phase. This is how medicine works. We start with in vitro studies, infecting cells in a petri dish and seeing if hydroxychloroquine worked. Then we move on to observational studies. People reporting that they tried it on a series of patients. These are retrospective and not controlled, which means they're prone to error. Confounding factors can sneak in, but they're good enough to warrant further investigation. If those are all positive, then we move on to randomized clinical trials. RCTs are gold standard. They are the least likely to be affected by confounding or bias. If the RCT is negative, that's the strongest possible evidence. We find often that observational studies show one thing and the RCT shows another, and since the RCT is the better study, we go with that.

So that's what happened. Observational retrospective trials were positive, so we moved onto RCTs. The RCTs were negative so the drug fell out of favor. It's not just our big RCT that was negative. There were others in the UK and Europe that were negative as well.

This is how medicine works. It doesn't care what Trump says. It just did the work that it always does.

So why did the FDA pull the emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine? Were they all affected by TDS? That's what I've been told here.

Yet there are still positive results out there, which you ignore, because you feel like ignoring it, because you WANT to believe Trump was wrong, and that's that.

Where is the harm in giving Cholorquinine or even Antivirals to try to fight this?

Why is ruining the economy to win the election for the Democrats the only solution to COVID?

You know the answer.

I haven't ignored positive results at all, but those positive results are outweighed by the strength of the negative trials. That's not TDS, that's how evidence based medicine works.

The best designed, best controlled, best run trials were negative, so it's time to move on. Trumpism is refusing to acknowledge that and instead blaming this on TDS.

They are only outweighed in your mind because you want them to be outweighed. Because deep down anything that shows Trump to be "right" is wrong, and could get him re-elected, and you JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT.

And "best designed, best controlled, best run" qualifier is only in your useless opinion, because, it backs your own narrative.

being a hack is one thing, being one in self denial is ******* pathetic.

No, they're outweighed because a randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial is better evidence than a retrospective observational study. That's how medical science works regardless of what Trump says or does.

It's Trumpism to refuse to accept that and that, sir, is what is so ******* pathetic.

One study, or a few studies vs. another. You take the one that agrees with your views as gospel, and ignore all others.

The actual results won't be known for years. Yet you have decided the Germans will win and have won Stalingrad based on the first few weeks of the battle.

And you do that because TRUMP HAS TO BE WRONG.

And just to make sure you know how much disdain I have for you:

colfax_m takes it up the ass doo dah, doo dah
colfax_m take sit up the ass, oh dee dooh dah day

Ha! And you pretend to be reasonable. This is exactly what I mean. TDS is used to deny facts, reality and stifle debate.

What's a better study for the efficacy of a drug for a particular infectious disease? A randomized placebo controlled double blinded clinical trial or a retrospective observational study?

I can be reasonable, but hacks like you don't deserve my deference.

It's amazing how you use words you barely understand.

Go on, tell me how I've been a hack in this conversation? Because I've evaluated the evidence and reached the same conclusions that the FDA, NIH and IDSA all reached?

You aren't making an argument, just ad hominems.

I'm a hack because I don't agree with Trump, not because of the strength of my argument. That's Trumpism.

You have probably read a story that went over the results of the studies, a story with a anti-trump bias, and then you just parroted whatever they said about said studies.

You didn't evaluate shit. You read someone else's views on the studies and now pretend like you investigated all the backup information from the story thoroughly, and have reached your obvious conclusion "Orange Man Bad"