What is the goal of capitalism?

[Orangecat]

Never triggered. Just trying to alleviate you of your ignorance.

That's quite impossible coming from your perspective of stupidity, kid.

 

[Red Front]

Robots and pizza........

What are two things you don't find in commie shitholes?

Wrong about robots and pizza in communism and practically everything else.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong about pizza in communism and practically everything else.

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Is that dog on the Korean pizza?
Or is it dissident meat?

 

[Red Front]

If you can't create much output, it's difficult to get an employer to pay you very much.

That tends to result in poverty.

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce? They produce more, the employer pays more. Correct?

 

[Red Front]

Is that dog on the Korean pizza?
Or is it dissident meat?

You were wrong about there not being robots and pizza in communist countries, and that's not surprising considering everything that comes out of your keyboard is practically always wrong.

 

[gipper]

Income inequality is an interesting topic. There's nothing wrong with it, in my view, if it's simply the outcome of a free market. That's just society expressing its values. The question, that I think you're focused on, is how the market is skewed to favor certain interests by state policy.

That's certainly a concern, but we should focus on eliminating that kind of interference, rather that eliminating free trade.

Unfortunately we both know this will not happen anytime soon. Our government, which should be looking out for the rights of the people, only cares about the interests of the extreme wealthy. This along with many other harmful actions over the past one hundred years has resulted in the collusion of government, media, and big business to prevent any change in the status quo.

I‘d gladly accept real free market capitalism over the quasI-fascist system we have today.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce? They produce more, the employer pays more. Correct?

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce?

Absolutely not!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You were wrong about there not being robots and pizza in communist countries, and that's not surprising considering everything that comes out of your keyboard is practically always wrong.

​

The nomenklatura in North Korea get robots?

That warms my heart.

 

[Red Front]

The nomenklatura in North Korea get robots?

That warms my heart.

Todd: "No robots and pizza in communism."
Reality: "Robots and Pizza in communism."

 

[Red Front]

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce?

Absolutely not!

So let's get this straight. Supposedly, people are poor, because they don't produce. If they work hard and produce, they still don't get paid more money. So being a productive person doesn't guarantee that they will get paid more. A person can work hard and produce and deliver plenty of goods and services and still get paid peanuts. How do you justify that?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So let's get this straight. Supposedly, people are poor, because they don't produce. If they work hard and produce, they still don't get paid more money. So being a productive person doesn't guarantee that they will get paid more. A person can work hard and produce and deliver plenty of goods and services and still get paid peanuts. How do you justify that?

Supposedly, people are poor, because they don't produce.

Poor people tend to be unproductive. Unproductive people tend to be paid little.

If they work hard and produce, they still don't get paid more money.

Liar! Very productive people get paid.

 

[Red Front]

Supposedly, people are poor, because they don't produce.

Poor people tend to be unproductive. Unproductive people tend to be paid little.

If they work hard and produce, they still don't get paid more money.

Liar! Very productive people get paid.

I wrote this:

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce? They produce more, the employer pays more. Correct?

And you responded with this:

Absolutely not!

So how am I a "liar"?

 

[Red Front]

I will be gone now for a few hours. I'll come back later to shoot the shit with Todd, the ultimate propagator of socialism.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I wrote this:

So if they produce "enough output" the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart, pay more money to the people who work and produce? They produce more, the employer pays more. Correct?

And you responded with this:

Absolutely not!

So how am I a "liar"?

the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart,

 

[Red Front]

the "employer" will out of the goodness of his heart,

Todd's assertion that the poor are unproductive and lazy and that wealth is a direct result of productivity and hard work is grossly oversimplified. Let's delve into these claims from a broader perspective.

Firstly, equating poverty with laziness or low productivity isn't entirely accurate. A study from the International Labour Organization (ILO) shows that workers in poorer countries tend to work longer hours than those in wealthier countries. Even in the U.S., many of the working poor hold multiple jobs and still find it challenging to escape poverty. They are not unproductive; they are underpaid.

When Todd mentions productivity, it's important to remember that under capitalism workers are always paid less than the value they create, the difference being the "surplus value," which is appropriated by capitalists as profits Walmart's profits are an example of surplus value extracted from underpaid workers, who need to be on government food stamps and public assistance to meet their basic needs, despite being employed full-time by Walmart, a multibillion-dollar company.

These American CEOs are paid 1,000 times more than their employees

CEOs of companies listed on the S&P 500 earned an average of $18.8 million last year, up about 21% from the previous year, Times recently reported. This jump in executive pay came despite an 18% drop in the market index in 2022. Many of these CEOs were gifted generous stock options by their...

www.baltimoresun.com

Walmart Gross Profit 2010-2024 | WMT

Walmart annual/quarterly gross profit history and growth rate from 2010 to 2024. Gross profit can be defined as the profit a company makes after deducting the variable costs directly associated with making and selling its products or providing its services. <ul...

www.macrotrends.net

Capitalists always pay less than what their employees actually produce, because they're actually the ones who rely on the labor and productivity of others (if anyone is a lazy, privileged leech it's them, not their poor employees, who are trying to survive on poverty-wages ). If anyone is a free-loader it's not the workers, but rather their parasite employers who exploit them for their labor, paying them less than what they produce to make a buck, on the backs of others.

If that wasn't enough, most of these private for-profit enterprises are run like totalitarian regimes, without even a modicum of democracy or accountability between owners, management, and their subordinates.

Todd's assertion that employers will pay more out of the "goodness of their hearts" conveniently ignores the history of labor rights. The establishment of a minimum wage, fair work hours, and safer working conditions didn't come from "nice" benevolent employers, but from workers' struggles and massive labor union actions.

THERE IS STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.

Home - Worker Organizing Resource and Knowledge Center

The U.S. Department of Labor's Worker Organizing Resource and Knowledge (WORK) Center offers information on workers' union rights.

www.dol.gov

The union difference in wages – 18% higher pay if you belong to a union

New federal data show union members earn 18% more than workers who don’t belong to unions.

www.afscme.org

DON'T DRINK THE CAPITALIST'S KOOL-AID, UNIONIZE AND EMPOWER YOURSELF.

Additionally, consider the systemic issues faced by those born into poverty. Children born to low-income families have fewer opportunities for upward mobility compared to those born to higher-income families. It's not about productivity; it's about unequal access to resources and opportunities.

Todd's view of the rich as inherently productive and hardworking dismisses the role being born in wealth or in an upper-middle-class family has on someone's finances and general access to resources and opportunities. Being of a certain ethnicity also helps.

In conclusion, the belief that the poor are poor due to "low productivity" (being lazy) and the rich are rich due to high productivity (being hard working) is an extremely skewed and simplistic view of a complex issue. Poverty is often not a personal failing; but rather a systemic issue that needs to be addressed with government policies that serve the public good, rather than a small group of wealthy elites, at everyone else's expense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd's assertion that the poor are unproductive and lazy

The unemployables you want the government to hire are certainly not very productive.

A study from the International Labour Organization (ILO) shows that workers in poorer countries tend to work longer hours than those in wealthier countries.

You can work your ass off and still not be very productive. As evidenced by the workers in the poorer countries that you're referencing.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

it's important to remember that under capitalism workers are always paid less than the value they create,

That's not true. Many workers for startups are paid more than the value they create.
Those are the startups that tend to fail.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalists always pay less than what their employees actually produce, because they're actually the ones who rely on the labor and productivity of others

Of course, they do. How else are they going to pay for the equipment, rent, inventory, interest, taxes and other costs needed to build and run their businesses?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd's assertion that employers will pay more out of the "goodness of their hearts"

I was mocking your claim that anything they do involves the "goodness of their hearts"

 

[ralfy]

It's true, poor people aren't very productive.

The bulk of the wealth of the 10 pct is based on the productivity of the 90 pct.