CDZ What is the Compromise to Roe v Wade?

[task0778]

I think 24 weeks is considered viable, so anything at that point on should be tightly regulated.

Some say viability could be sooner than that, it's kinda open for debate I guess. Maybe it should be tightly regulated, but is it? I got my doubts about how honest that is. Then there's the question of why viability should be the deciding factor. Who gets to decide when it's okay to end a human life before he or she is born? The unborn baby is definitely human and it is alive.


Seven weeks into your pregnancy, or five weeks after conception, your baby's brain and face are growing.

Twelve weeks into your pregnancy, or 10 weeks after conception, your baby is sprouting fingernails. Your baby's face now has taken on a more developed profile. His or her intestines are in the abdomen.

Sixteen weeks into your pregnancy, or 14 weeks after conception, your baby's head is erect. His or her eyes can slowly move. The ears are close to reaching their final position. Your baby's skin is getting thicker.
Your baby's limb movements are becoming coordinated and can be detected during ultrasound exams. However, these movements are still too slight to be felt by you.

Eighteen weeks into your pregnancy, or 16 weeks after conception, your baby's ears begin to stand out on the sides of his or her head. Your baby might begin to hear sounds. The eyes are beginning to face forward. Your baby's digestive system has started working.

Halfway into your pregnancy, or 18 weeks after conception, you might be able to feel your baby's movements (quickening). Your baby is regularly sleeping and waking. He or she might be awakened by noises or your movements

Fetal development: What happens during the 1st trimester?

Fetal development begins before you even know you're pregnant. Here's what happens early on.

www.mayoclinic.org

Fetal development: What happens during the 2nd trimester?

Fetal development progresses rapidly in the second trimester. Check out the weekly changes.

www.mayoclinic.org

Why do they use the word eugenics?

No idea, other than the negative connotation that word carries. I kinda doubt any pregnant woman will decide to abort her baby for that reason.

Late term elective abortions are extremely rare and heavily regulated in most states.

But are they? Why then do pro-abortion people fight like hell for the right to an abortion right up to birth? That Senate Bill S.4132 that I mentioned earlier was supported by every democrat except Joe Manchin and that bill requires the unlimited right to an abortion right up to birth. I have some doubts that 3rd trimester abortions are as rare as claimed or that they are heavily regulated.

 

[eagle1462010]

Let's listen to ROE on this.

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Norma McCorvey​

Norma McCorvey would later claim that, during the 1970s although some years after Roe, she had a nightmare concerning "little babies lying around with daggers in their hearts". This was the first of a series of recurring nightmares which kept her awake at night.[187] She became worried and wondered, "What really, had I done?"[188] and "Well, how do they kill a baby inside a mother's stomach anyway?" McCorvey later reflected:[189]

I couldn't get the thought out of my mind. I realize it sounds very naïve, especially for a woman who had already conceived and delivered three children. Though I had seen and experienced more than my share of the world, there were some things about which I still didn't have a clue—and this was one of them. Ironically enough, Jane Roe may have known less about abortion than anyone else.

During the years after Roe, although not immediately, McCorvey joined with and accompanied others in the abortion rights movement. During this time, McCorvey stated that she had publicly lied about being raped and apologized for making the false rape claim.[190][191] Norma McCorvey became part of the movement against abortion from 1995 until shortly before her death in 2017.[192] In 1998, she testified to Congress:

It was my pseudonym, Jane Roe, which had been used to create the "right" to abortion out of legal thin air. But Sarah Weddington and Linda Coffee never told me that what I was signing would allow women to come up to me 15, 20 years later and say, "Thank you for allowing me to have my five or six abortions. Without you, it wouldn't have been possible." Sarah never mentioned women using abortions as a form of birth control. We talked about truly desperate and needy women, not women already wearing maternity clothes.[193]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[JoeB131]

A tampon is not biology, and using that sort of language in mixed company is malicious conduct, even if you were raised in an antisocial environment.

Someone oughta have washed your filthy mouth out in your formative years, Atilla the Hun.

Quite the contrary, it made my point. 2/3rds of zygotes never attach to the uterine wall.
Which means that they end up... in a tampon.
That's biology.
But this funny thing happens, they don't include a little coffin with each tampon so you can give that Zygote that you think is a human being, a proper Christian funeral.

Any more than they give a funeral to a miscarried fetus that ends up in a medial waste container.

Because zygotes, embryos and fetuses aren't people, and we'd be in a mess of trouble if we started acting like they were. This would go well beyond abortion.

We would have to investigate EVERY miscarriage as a potential homicide. Imagine the poor cops who have to have THOSE conversations.

Logan: I'm glad I'm retired.
Brisco: I'm glad I'm dead!

Does a woman who has a sip of wine during her pregnancy get charged with child abuse? what about one who smokes? Could we bar women from certain jobs because of the potential for fetal deformities?

 

[johngaltshrugged]

What rigid standards?

Life of the Mom must be in actual physical danger if they allow the pregnancy to continue.

 

[flan327]

Life of the Mom must be in actual physical danger if they allow the pregnancy to continue.

But a deformity

Life of the Mom must be in actual physical danger if they allow the pregnancy to continue.

Bur a FATAL deformity in the fetus is ACCEPTABLE?

 

[Dragonlady]

There can be no compromise which allows the continued murder of unborn children as contraception or a normal alternative to giving birth . . . period. Only the weak or enslaved compromise their most sacred values in exchange for convenience, safety or coexistence.

There is no “murder of unborn children”. Nor are the women who have abortions “weak” or “enslaved”.

This is all about controlling women, especially women of colour. Letting them know who’s boss and can make their lives miserable. It’s about blaming and shaming women for having sex. It’s taking control of their lives and forcing them further into poverty.

Because they have the power.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

But a deformity

Bur a FATAL deformity in the fetus is ACCEPTABLE?

Didn't I already state my position is life of the Mother only? Does it threaten the woman's life?
You really want to argue over baby murders, don't you?
Going into obscure & very rare backwaters to defend your feelings is a frequently used proggy tactic, particularly with infanticide, & will not change my mind.
I'll say it again- when baby murderers stop murdering babies, I will stop calling them baby murderers.
It's a free will/speech kinda thing lefties don't understand

 

[Coyote]

Life of the Mom must be in actual physical danger if they allow the pregnancy to continue.

How exactly do they determine this? And facing potential felony charges if someone thinks he acted too soon...will the doctor err on the side of caution until it is too late? This isn't hypothetical either, there have been some high profile cases in countries where abortion is illegal.

What about the woman's health?

 

[Coyote]

Didn't I already state my position is life of the Mother only? Does it threaten the woman's life?
You really want to argue over baby murders, don't you?
Going into obscure & very rare backwaters to defend your feelings is a frequently used proggy tactic, particularly with infanticide, & will not change my mind.
I'll say it again- when baby murderers stop murdering babies, I will stop calling them baby murderers.
It's a free will/speech kinda thing lefties don't understand

Just a reminder, this is CDZ. No put downs.

Pregnancy ALWAYS threatens a woman's life.

The event that makes the risk acceptable is the hope of a healthy live baby at the end.

There are a number of absolutely devastating fetal abnormalities that can occur and that are not compatible with life. In essence you would force a woman to carry what is in essence a dead baby. Some one women can do this, but not everyone, and to force it is an act of cruelty. What's more, women have a limited amount of time in which they can have children. If a couple, especially older, are trying to start a family, that is a year or more cut out.

 

[Dragonlady]

Didn't I already state my position is life of the Mother only? Does it threaten the woman's life?
You really want to argue over baby murders, don't you?
Going into obscure & very rare backwaters to defend your feelings is a frequently used proggy tactic, particularly with infanticide, & will not change my mind.
I'll say it again- when baby murderers stop murdering babies, I will stop calling them baby murderers.
It's a free will/speech kinda thing lefties don't understand

If the only way you can condemn abortion, is to demonize the women forced to make this choice, then your so-called "moral" arguments must be very weak, indeed.

You attempt to control the language used to describe abortion and will not countenance any language that doesn't refer to abortion as "murder" or the women as "murderers". Such judgement is not yours to make.

As long as you use these terms to describe abortion, we're going to remind you that toxic male violence against women has occurred because of the language you use to describe the women you can't control. In the Dark Ages, you would be burning the midwives and medicine women at the stake as "witches".

The USA has the highest rate of maternal death in childbirth, in the first world, and the states with the highest rate of maternal death, are the ones which are now banning abortion. These states also have the highest rate of infant death in the first year of life. While they'd doing everything possible to protect the unborn, they're doing little to nothing for these children or their mothers, after they're born.

There is nothing in law, science or in fact which justifies your position, your laws, or your beliefs.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

If the only way you can condemn abortion, is to demonize the women forced to make this choice, then your so-called "moral" arguments must be very weak, indeed.

You attempt to control the language used to describe abortion and will not countenance any language that doesn't refer to abortion as "murder" or the women as "murderers". Such judgement is not yours to make.

As long as you use these terms to describe abortion, we're going to remind you that toxic male violence against women has occurred because of the language you use to describe the women you can't control. In the Dark Ages, you would be burning the midwives and medicine women at the stake as "witches".

The USA has the highest rate of maternal death in childbirth, in the first world, and the states with the highest rate of maternal death, are the ones which are now banning abortion. These states also have the highest rate of infant death in the first year of life. While they'd doing everything possible to protect the unborn, they're doing little to nothing for these children or their mothers, after they're born.

There is nothing in law, science or in fact which justifies your position, your laws, or your beliefs.

I call it baby murder because I refuse to call it anything that softens language for delicate sensibilities so the emotionally incontinent can justify the harsh truth & barbaric practice it is & always will be.
I will continue to call it baby murder, or infanticide, because that is exactly what it is.

Science confirms from the moment of conception a fertilized egg is an independent living being possessing individual human DNA different from the mothers. When you kill a fertilized egg, you are killing a living human being. Is that "science" enough?

Maybe we have high infant mortality rates because our health system is hopelessly corrupt, incompetent & sold out to pharma giants that are injecting our children with dozens of doses of toxic substances. Ronaflu showed me that.

If you're asking me to raise your kids, you are going to be disappointed. Maybe try taking some personal responsibility for your decisions & don't get pregnant until you're ready.

Yes, you all get burned at the stakes all the time these days, right? If you were black I suspect you'd be talking about lynchings.
Nice strawman argument.

 

[flan327]

I call it baby murder because I refuse to call it anything that softens language for delicate sensibilities so the emotionally incontinent can justify the harsh truth & barbaric practice it is & always will be.
I will continue to call it baby murder, or infanticide, because that is exactly what it is.

Science confirms from the moment of conception a fertilized egg is an independent living being possessing individual human DNA different from the mothers. When you kill a fertilized egg, you are killing a living human being. Is that "science" enough?

Maybe we have high infant mortality rates because our health system is hopelessly corrupt, incompetent & sold out to pharma giants that are injecting our children with dozens of doses of toxic substances. Ronaflu showed me that.

If you're asking me to raise your kids, you are going to be disappointed. Maybe try taking some personal responsibility for your decisions & don't get pregnant until you're ready.

Yes, you all get burned at the stakes all the time these days, right? If you were black I suspect you'd be talking about lynchings.
Nice strawman argument.

View attachment 651111

How dare you?

John Krasinski has common sense

Unlike you

 

[flan327]

Just a reminder, this is CDZ. No put downs.

Pregnancy ALWAYS threatens a woman's life.

The event that makes the risk acceptable is the hope of a healthy live baby at the end.

There are a number of absolutely devastating fetal abnormalities that can occur and that are not compatible with life. In essence you would force a woman to carry what is in essence a dead baby. Some one women can do this, but not everyone, and to force it is an act of cruelty. What's more, women have a limited amount of time in which they can have children. If a couple, especially older, are trying to start a family, that is a year or more cut out.

I was pregnant THREE times
My LIFE was never threatened
Capisch?

 

[Coyote]

I was pregnant THREE times
My LIFE was never threatened
Capisch?

Capisch what? That you were fortunate and had no life threatening complications?

 

[flan327]

Capisch what? That you were fortunate and had no life threatening complications?

Have you ever been PREGNANT?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The shortest path to reducing or eliminating abortion is to make it unnecessary for the woman to have to choose it. Not everyone is Catholic. Not everyone believes in God. Most people support the right to an abortion. So if eliminating or reducing it is what you truly believe in and you want to see it end, legislation (can be overturned), threats against doctors or clinics (will turn public opinion against you), or judicial strong-arming (both A and B) will not work long term.

You don't have to like it, you just have to accept it and work to make it unnecessary. Making contraception inexpensive and widely available. Promote sex education. Stop hounding and harassing doctors and clinics. Stop whining to your legislatures to do God's bidding.

There is a path forward to making abortion disappear. I cannot for the life of me understand why anti-abortionists just cannot see the forest for the trees.

"You shall do no murder" works for me

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I’m 66

But most tweens are more intelligent than you

You're tween this life and Judgement Day

 

[flan327]

"You shall do no murder" works for me

Abortions will always exist

 

[Coyote]

Some say viability could be sooner than that, it's kinda open for debate I guess. Maybe it should be tightly regulated, but is it? I got my doubts about how honest that is. Then there's the question of why viability should be the deciding factor. Who gets to decide when it's okay to end a human life before he or she is born? The unborn baby is definitely human and it is alive.

I think it is tightly regulated…and perhaps more importantly, that far along, this is usually very much a wanted child.

Viability is not any more arbritrary then conception (when no one can pinpoint exactly when that occurs. I guess for me viability, even though it is a moving target, does mark a point when a baby can survive outside another’s body and it’s rights are then as important as the mothers.

To me there is something very wrong when a fertilized egg has as much right to my body as I do.

Seven weeks into your pregnancy, or five weeks after conception, your baby's brain and face are growing.

Twelve weeks into your pregnancy, or 10 weeks after conception, your baby is sprouting fingernails. Your baby's face now has taken on a more developed profile. His or her intestines are in the abdomen.

Sixteen weeks into your pregnancy, or 14 weeks after conception, your baby's head is erect. His or her eyes can slowly move. The ears are close to reaching their final position. Your baby's skin is getting thicker.
Your baby's limb movements are becoming coordinated and can be detected during ultrasound exams. However, these movements are still too slight to be felt by you.

Eighteen weeks into your pregnancy, or 16 weeks after conception, your baby's ears begin to stand out on the sides of his or her head. Your baby might begin to hear sounds. The eyes are beginning to face forward. Your baby's digestive system has started working.

Halfway into your pregnancy, or 18 weeks after conception, you might be able to feel your baby's movements (quickening). Your baby is regularly sleeping and waking. He or she might be awakened by noises or your movements

Fetal development: What happens during the 1st trimester?

Fetal development begins before you even know you're pregnant. Here's what happens early on.

www.mayoclinic.org

Fetal development: What happens during the 2nd trimester?

Fetal development progresses rapidly in the second trimester. Check out the weekly changes.

www.mayoclinic.org

No idea, other than the negative connotation that word carries. I kinda doubt any pregnant woman will decide to abort her baby for that reason.





But are they? Why then do pro-abortion people fight like hell for the right to an abortion right up to birth? That Senate Bill S.4132 that I mentioned earlier was supported by every democrat except Joe Manchin and that bill requires the unlimited right to an abortion right up to birth. I have some doubts that 3rd trimester abortions are as rare as claimed or that they are heavily regulated.

I looked up the bill, because I was unfamiliar with it..and this is what it says:

S.4132 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Women’s Health Protection Act of 2022

Summary of S.4132 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Women’s Health Protection Act of 2022

www.congress.gov

Shown Here:
Introduced in Senate (05/03/2022)​

Women's Health Protection Act of 2022

This bill prohibits governmental restrictions on the provision of, and access to, abortion services.

Specifically, governments may not limit a provider's ability to

• prescribe certain drugs,
• offer abortion services via telemedicine, or
• immediately provide abortion services when the provider determines a delay risks the patient's health.

Furthermore, governments may not require a provider to

• perform unnecessary medical procedures,
• provide medically inaccurate information,
• comply with credentialing or other conditions that do not apply to providers whose services are medically comparable to abortions, or
• carry out all services connected to an abortion.

In addition, governments may not (1) require patients to make medically unnecessary in-person visits before receiving abortion services or disclose their reasons for obtaining such services, or (2) prohibit abortion services before fetal viability or after fetal viability when a provider determines the pregnancy risks the patient's life or health.

The bill also prohibits other governmental measures that are similar to the bill's specified restrictions or that otherwise single out and impede access to abortion services, unless a government demonstrates that the measure significantly advances the safety of abortion services or health of patients and cannot be achieved through less restrictive means.

The Department of Justice, individuals, or providers may bring a lawsuit to enforce this bill, and states are not immune from suits for violations.

The bill applies to restrictions imposed both prior and subsequent to the bill's enactment.

It is not calling for abortion up to birth, in fact it specifically states viability and, past that, only for the mothers health/life.

I know there is a minority who argue for abortion at any time, but there is also a minority who argue for no exceptions. At all. And there is a somewhat larger minority who are trying to narrow the definition of what constitutes a threat to a woman’s life. As a woman I find it chilling to think that a politician, not a doctor is making this determination.