What is the biblical timeline for the next era?

[surada]

The timeline, as I understood it, is this:

1) All Christians are miracle into heaven, in one surprise move. Physically, the way Jesus ascended bodily into heaven, in front of eleven witnesses, forty days after his resurrection. This includes all past living Christians whose bodies will be first reassembled.

2) Some of those left behind will realize the truth of the prophesies and turn to God/Jesus while the rest will fall into a deteriorating post-apocalyptic existence. This time will be called "The Tribulation."

3) After this long period of suffering, Jesus and the Christians will return in glorified bodies and rule the Earth.

What church teaches that?

 

[Seymour Flops]

What church teaches that?

surada, I'm not here to present a church's religion so you can ridicule it. I'm here to ask what others understand about any religion's prophesied end times. I answered the question, because it was the one I asked, so I modeled the type of answer that I was looking for.

Grow up.

 

[surada]

surada, I'm not here to present a church's religion so you can ridicule it. I'm here to ask what others understand about any religion's prophesied end times. I answered the question, because it was the one I asked, so I modeled the type of answer that I was looking for.

Grow up.

Never mind. I see you're from Texas. Cyrus Scofield is your man.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Never mind. I see you're from Texas. Cyrus Scofield is your man.

Never heard of him, but thanks for playing.

 

[surada]

Never heard of him, but thanks for playing.

Ever heard of the Dallas theological seminary?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Ever heard of the Dallas theological seminary?

No.

If you feel the need to ridicule that (I assume) religious organization, feel free to make a thread about it.

 

[ninja007]

you guys are so so lost, sad. The bible is very clear on order of events- next event is the pretrib rapture. then the a.c. comes onto the scene.

 

[ninja007]

What is the Pretribulation Rapture?

The rapture is an event that will take place sometime in the near future. Jesus will come in the air, catch up the Church from the earth, and then return

www.raptureready.com

 

[norwegen]

Show me where in the bible that it states that a generation is 40 years.

So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations.​

Do the math for this passage in Matthew (1:17). Calculated with wooden literalism, a generation ranges from about 29 years to 72 years. Considered conversationally, about 40 years. The mere fact that the gospel divides that period of history into 42 generations should inform us that a generation refers to people who are living contemporaneously. A generation means the same thing to us as it did to the ancient Hebrews.

The resurrection occurred in that last generation of temple-era Judaism (Mt 12:41-42). All of Israel's prophecies had come upon that generation (Mt 23:36).

Now, where does the Bible say that a generation is thousands of years? Or a race or a nation?

 

[norwegen]

The timeline, as I understood it, is this:

1) All Christians are miracle into heaven, in one surprise move. Physically, the way Jesus ascended bodily into heaven, in front of eleven witnesses, forty days after his resurrection. This includes all past living Christians whose bodies will be first reassembled.

2) Some of those left behind will realize the truth of the prophesies and turn to God/Jesus while the rest will fall into a deteriorating post-apocalyptic existence. This time will be called "The Tribulation."

3) After this long period of suffering, Jesus and the Christians will return in glorified bodies and rule the Earth.

Can you link any of this to scripture?

Bodily ascension? Seriously?

 

[Cougarbear]

Do you know the difference between Judah and Israel?

I explained the difference in context. There are 12 tribes of Israel. The Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom of Judah and Benjamin. The 10 Tribes sin so much that God no longer was willing to protect them because they had broken all the covenants made with Father Israel (Jacob). The Assyrians conquered them and carried them away and never to return. They assimilated into the rest of the the Old World. Then, the prophets warned Judah and Benjamin that they were sinning great sins leaving their covenants they made with God. In abour 596 BC, Nebuchadnezzar carried them to Babylonia to be in exile for 70 years. In 537 BC, they were allowed to return to Jerusalem. Ezra was their leader, but not a prophet. He was a priest and leader with Nehemiah. They formed the Great Synagogue or better known as the Sanhedrin. It was this group that finally diminished the prophet's role and stated that they were merely messengers and that the Great Sanhedrin scholars would interpret the words of the prophets and run things. Get out of line and they would stone the prophets. This is why I follow the actual scriptures and not the scholar's writings. The Torah, Tanakh and the New Testament. The Talmud is holy to you but nothing but interpretations that have lots of falsehoods to keep Christ from being accepted by their people.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Can you link any of this to scripture?

You misunderstood the point of my thread.

Those are things that I grew up being taught. I asked what others understood and whether there was a biblical basis specifically because I don't know the biblical basis for those beliefs that I was taught.

Bodily ascension? Seriously?

That part is in scripture:

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:6-11, Matthew 28:18-20 - English Standard Version

The Ascension - So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon...

www.biblegateway.com

You may disagree, and even find it absurd. But I didn't make that part up.

My question is does the bible predict the same for Christians as happened to Jesus?

Or does the bible support the commonly held belief of a soul jumping out of its physical body and going to Heaven as a spirit?

 

[surada]

You misunderstood the point of my thread.

Those are things that I grew up being taught. I asked what others understood and whether there was a biblical basis specifically because I don't know the biblical basis for those beliefs that I was taught.

That part is in scripture:

View attachment 650199

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:6-11, Matthew 28:18-20 - English Standard Version

The Ascension - So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon...

www.biblegateway.com

You may disagree, and even find it absurd. But I didn't make that part up.

My question is does the bible predict the same for Christians as happened to Jesus?

Or does the bible support the commonly held belief of a soul jumping out of its physical body and going to Heaven as a spirit?

Nope.

 

[onefour1]

So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations.​

Do the math for this passage in Matthew (1:17). Calculated with wooden literalism, a generation ranges from about 29 years to 72 years. Considered conversationally, about 40 years. The mere fact that the gospel divides that period of history into 42 generations should inform us that a generation refers to people who are living contemporaneously. A generation means the same thing to us as it did to the ancient Hebrews.

The resurrection occurred in that last generation of temple-era Judaism (Mt 12:41-42). All of Israel's prophecies had come upon that generation (Mt 23:36).

Now, where does the Bible say that a generation is thousands of years? Or a race or a nation?

Matthew 1:1-17
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

From the above we have:

1. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judas, Phares, Esrom, Aram, Aminadab, Naasson, Salmon, Booz, Obed, Jesse, David are the 14 generations from Abraham to David.
2. Solomon, Roboam, Abia, Asa, Josaphat, Joram, Ozias, Joatham, Achaz, Ezekias, Manasses, Amon, Josias, Jechonias are the 14 generations from David until they were carried away into Babylon.
3. Salathiel, Zorobabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Sadoc, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus are 13 generations mentioned.

What Matthew was speaking of in verse 17 are the above mentioned generations from Abraham until Jesus. There seems to be a discrepancy in that 3 above only mentions 13 more generations. Apparently a generation in this verse starts with Abraham and then counts each succeeding child of the previous one mentioned all the way until Christ. Nothing mentioned about 40 years being a generation.

From Webster's Dictionary we get the following definitions of "Generation".

generation​

noun
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gen·er·a·tion | \ ˌje-nə-ˈrā-shən \

Definition of generation​

1a: a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor
b: a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously the younger generation
c: a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period
d: a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type first of the … new generation of powerful supersonic fighters— Kenneth Koyen
2a: the action or process of producing offspring : PROCREATION
b: the process of coming or bringing into being generation of income
c: origination by a generating process : PRODUCTION especially : formation of a geometric figure by motion of another
3: the average span of time between the birth of parents and that of their offspring

I believe that the meaning of "generation" in Matthew 1:17 has reference to Webster's 1a definition above.

I believe when Jesus spoke in Matthew 24:34 it has reference to Webster's 1b definition above.

The Apostles of Jesus and his disciples were of the current generation or those group of people living contemporaneously. So when Jesus said:

Mark 9:1​

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:27​

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

he was speaking to that group of people living contemporaneously who were listening to his voice. They were the current generation.

Since Christ has not yet come in power and great glory as he prophesied, then some of those living at that time must still be alive until this prophesy is fulfilled. If you read Matthew 24:30 you see that the prophesy that Christ is speaking about in the above two verses is part of what he referred to when he spoke in Matthew 24:34 and said He would come again in his glory to the earth:

Matthew 24:30
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This prophesy has not yet occurred. Then this verse is followed by

Matthew 24:34
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[norwegen]

Those are things that I grew up being taught. I asked what others understood and whether there was a biblical basis specifically because I don't know the biblical basis for those beliefs that I was taught.

Obviously, you're not getting anything from the teachers in your church.

Hey, here's a thought: read the Bible.

You may disagree, and even find it absurd. But I didn't make that part up.

See, this is just another example of your heeding tradition rather than reading scripture. Saying that Jesus bodily ascended is made up. It is not biblical.

The ESV states that in his ascension, Jesus was “lifted up,” though not specifically levitated. The meaning is metaphorical. When we “lift up” someone, we honor that person. We lift up a police officer for an act heroism, for example. The original Greek also captures this concept. The transliteration for the expression is the word epairō, which translates to “lift up” or “raise up,” or metaphorically to “exalt.”[*]

Also notice in Acts 1 what the two men in white robes said. Presumably angels, they challenged the reaction of the apostles they encountered. “Why do you stand looking into heaven?” they asked. Jesus “will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” If looking up was pointless, then that was not the way Jesus ascended, or went upward, and so he does not come that way, either (from overhead). Note what else the angels said: that Jesus would come in the manner that the apostles saw him go. The apostles did not actually see Jesus launched skyward toward the heavens; they saw him vanish in a cloud, no doubt in the same manner that he vanished from the sight of two apostles a short time earlier (Lk 24:31).

So, what was this ascension, then? In his gospel, Luke said that Jesus was carried up into heaven (Lk 24:51). Unless he contradicted himself with what he said in Acts, this cannot be a literal carrying away. This carrying up, or the Greek anakathizō, can refer to those literally raised from the dead,[**] but Christ’s literal resurrection occurred in the tomb, not while he was talking to his disciples in Bethany. This “carrying away” was his ascension, or his exaltation to the Father. Luke absolutely repeated in Acts what he recorded in his gospel.

---

* Strong’s Concordance, s.v. “epairō” (Strong's 1869).
** Strong’s Concordance, s.v. “anakathizō” (Strong's 339).

 

[Seymour Flops]

Obviously, you're not getting anything from the teachers in your church.

Hey, here's a thought: read the Bible.

I read it and quoted it verbatim. Why would you say that I did not read it? That is an absurd thing to say.

See, this is just another example of your heeding tradition rather than reading scripture. Saying that Jesus bodily ascended is made up. It is not biblical.

Yes, it is, according to the plain meaning of the passage I posted.

The ESV states that in his ascension, Jesus was “lifted up,” though not specifically levitated. The meaning is metaphorical. When we “lift up” someone, we honor that person. We lift up a police officer for an act heroism, for example. The original Greek also captures this concept. The transliteration for the expression is the word epairō, which translates to “lift up” or “raise up,” or metaphorically to “exalt.”[*]

That falls under the category of “maybe it could mean this.” Yes, it could possibly mean that, if one is grasping at straws. But why grasp at straws instead of taking the plain meaning?

Either because you believe that such things as a person being bodily lifted up into heaven in front of eleven witnesses is impossible, even as a miracle, or because you believe in miracles, but for some reason, don’t think that particular one happened as described.

If you don’t believe in miracles, then why read the Bible in the first place? It is chock full of miracles, miracles such as physically impossible things happening at the direction of God, not just people listening to the words of a great philosopher and having a change of heart.

What about the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus? A bone fide physical miracle, or did the apostles just mean that Jesus symbolically lived on in the minds of his followers? If you believe that all the miracles of the Bible are metaphorical, that is a perfectly valid belief. But insisting that one particular miracle was symbolic after snarkily suggesting that I read it makes no sense.

BTW, I’m interested in having this discussion with you. Feel free to stay snarky if that is what you need to continue.

Also notice in Acts 1 what the two men in white robes said. Presumably angels, they challenged the reaction of the apostles they encountered. “Why do you stand looking into heaven?” they asked. Jesus “will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” If looking up was pointless, then that was not the way Jesus ascended, or went upward, and so he does not come that way, either (from overhead). Note what else the angels said: that Jesus would come in the manner that the apostles saw him go. The apostles did not actually see Jesus launched skyward toward the heavens; they saw him vanish in a cloud, no doubt in the same manner that he vanished from the sight of two apostles a short time earlier (Lk 24:31).

So, what was this ascension, then? In his gospel, Luke said that Jesus was carried up into heaven (Lk 24:51). Unless he contradicted himself with what he said in Acts, this cannot be a literal carrying away. This carrying up, or the Greek anakathizō, can refer to those literally raised from the dead,[**] but Christ’s literal resurrection occurred in the tomb, not while he was talking to his disciples in Bethany. This “carrying away” was his ascension, or his exaltation to the Father. Luke absolutely repeated in Acts what he recorded in his gospel.

---

* Strong’s Concordance, s.v. “epairō” (Strong's 1869).
** Strong’s Concordance, s.v. “anakathizō” (Strong's 339).

If you read Luke only, you could stretch a point and squeeze your idea of the ascension merely being an exaltation into it. But Acts is very clear (1:9):

And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. (ESV)

If Jesus did not ascend bodily into heaven, as the Bible says that he did, what became of him? If he was only “exalted” and not bodily taken into heaven as Acts described, why did the angels say that he would return? Wouldn’t your theory mean that he was still standing there, only changed into an exalted state?

 

[surada]

I read it and quoted it verbatim. Why would you say that I did not read it? That is an absurd thing to say.

Yes, it is, according to the plain meaning of the passage I posted.

That falls under the category of “maybe it could mean this.” Yes, it could possibly mean that, if one is grasping at straws. But why grasp at straws instead of taking the plain meaning?

Either because you believe that such things as a person being bodily lifted up into heaven in front of eleven witnesses is impossible, even as a miracle, or because you believe in miracles, but for some reason, don’t think that particular one happened as described.

If you don’t believe in miracles, then why read the Bible in the first place? It is chock full of miracles, miracles such as physically impossible things happening at the direction of God, not just people listening to the words of a great philosopher and having a change of heart.

What about the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus? A bone fide physical miracle, or did the apostles just mean that Jesus symbolically lived on in the minds of his followers? If you believe that all the miracles of the Bible are metaphorical, that is a perfectly valid belief. But insisting that one particular miracle was symbolic after snarkily suggesting that I read it makes no sense.

BTW, I’m interested in having this discussion with you. Feel free to stay snarky if that is what you need to continue.


If you read Luke only, you could stretch a point and squeeze your idea of the ascension merely being an exaltation into it. But Acts is very clear (1:9):

And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. (ESV)

If Jesus did not ascend bodily into heaven, as the Bible says that he did, what became of him? If he was only “exalted” and not bodily taken into heaven as Acts described, why did the angels say that he would return? Wouldn’t your theory mean that he was still standing there, only changed into an exalted state?

The Bible is literature and it's full of symbolism, figurative language, allegories, metaphors.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The Bible is literature and it's full of symbolism, figurative language, allegories, metaphors.

That is a perfectly valid belief.

But once one accepts that valid belief, the Bible becomes no more useful than a collection of Shakespeare, or a long version of “Tales of the Arabian Nights,” which is more entertaining than either of the two, in my opinion.

 

[norwegen]

I read it and quoted it verbatim. Why would you say that I did not read it? That is an absurd thing to say.

You did not. Read that post again (#40). You did not quote the Bible at all, verbatim or otherwise.

Yes, it is, according to the plain meaning of the passage I posted.

That falls under the category of “maybe it could mean this.” Yes, it could possibly mean that, if one is grasping at straws. But why grasp at straws instead of taking the plain meaning?

Either because you believe that such things as a person being bodily lifted up into heaven in front of eleven witnesses is impossible, even as a miracle, or because you believe in miracles, but for some reason, don’t think that particular one happened as described.

If you don’t believe in miracles, then why read the Bible in the first place? It is chock full of miracles, miracles such as physically impossible things happening at the direction of God, not just people listening to the words of a great philosopher and having a change of heart.

What about the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus? A bone fide physical miracle, or did the apostles just mean that Jesus symbolically lived on in the minds of his followers? If you believe that all the miracles of the Bible are metaphorical, that is a perfectly valid belief. But insisting that one particular miracle was symbolic after snarkily suggesting that I read it makes no sense.

BTW, I’m interested in having this discussion with you. Feel free to stay snarky if that is what you need to continue.

If you read Luke only, you could stretch a point and squeeze your idea of the ascension merely being an exaltation into it. But Acts is very clear (1:9):

And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. (ESV)

If Jesus did not ascend bodily into heaven, as the Bible says that he did, what became of him? If he was only “exalted” and not bodily taken into heaven as Acts described, why did the angels say that he would return? Wouldn’t your theory mean that he was still standing there, only changed into an exalted state?

Tradition is your teacher.

Know the etymology. Know the culture. Know the history. Stop projecting the Bible onto your 21st-century Western worldview. The Bible does not say that Jesus floated up into space. That kind of imagery is ludicrous. It's this kind of dispensationalist, fundamentalist teaching that makes a mockery of the faith.

 

[surada]

That is a perfectly valid belief.

But once one accepts that valid belief, the Bible becomes no more useful than a collection of Shakespeare, or a long version of “Tales of the Arabian Nights,” which is more entertaining than either of the two, in my opinion.

The Bible was never intended as history or science. Literalism and futurism came out of the Dust Bowl and the Depression because people were poor and ignorant.