Zone1 What is Roman Catholicism ??

[Cougarbear]

Because we are less intelligent as spiritual beings than we are as human beings?

Completely the opposite. Our spirits are by far more intelligent. Our bodies are corrupted by many genetic and environmental means. But, not our intelligence.

 

[Cougarbear]

Why not? Isn't anything possible with God?

Nope. God won't force us to do anything. We have to want to. Before we will, we have to know why we came here. You may not like the answer but it is the answer. God the Father and now his Son, Jesus Christ are glorified resurrected beings. To inherit all that he has, including the opportunity to be like him and increase in joy and posterity through the eternities, we have to be resurrected as well. And, with a valiant testimony in all the doctrines, commandments and true ordinances through authority of Jesus Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Why?

I don't know why you did. You have to come to that knowledge. But, as Abraham, you were at that great council in Heaven when Jesus presented the Fathers Plan of Happiness to all his children. Lucifer objected with the conditions that we may have to deal with on earth and offered another plan that would include losing the right of free moral agency and will. In return, we would be only taught right from wrong but not experience doing it. Father rejected his plan and Lucifer rebelled along with a third of our brothers and sisters. They were thrusted down to the earth without ever receiving a physical human body to torment and try us with their evil. Why we didn't follow Lucifer, you'll have to figure that one out. I followed Jesus Christ because I love my Father in Heaven.

 

[ding]

Can you go up to God and have your Father in Heaven put his arms around you? No. We used to before descending from heaven into our physical earthly bodies.

So he can't hear your prayers? You can't seek his guidance? Do you know what separated means?

 

[ding]

Completely the opposite. Our spirits are by far more intelligent. Our bodies are corrupted by many genetic and environmental means. But, not our intelligence.

But you said receiving our bodies is how we gain intelligence.

 

[ding]

Nope. God won't force us to do anything. We have to want to. Before we will, we have to know why we came here. You may not like the answer but it is the answer. God the Father and now his Son, Jesus Christ are glorified resurrected beings. To inherit all that he has, including the opportunity to be like him and increase in joy and posterity through the eternities, we have to be resurrected as well. And, with a valiant testimony in all the doctrines, commandments and true ordinances through authority of Jesus Christ.

But you said, "We come to first receive a body. It’s how we can progress as an intelligent being. Without this, we can’t."

And I said, why not? Isn't everything possible with God?

And you are saying no. Not everything is possible with God.

 

[ding]

I don't know why you did. You have to come to that knowledge. But, as Abraham, you were at that great council in Heaven when Jesus presented the Fathers Plan of Happiness to all his children. Lucifer objected with the conditions that we may have to deal with on earth and offered another plan that would include losing the right of free moral agency and will. In return, we would be only taught right from wrong but not experience doing it. Father rejected his plan and Lucifer rebelled along with a third of our brothers and sisters. They were thrusted down to the earth without ever receiving a physical human body to torment and try us with their evil. Why we didn't follow Lucifer, you'll have to figure that one out. I followed Jesus Christ because I love my Father in Heaven.

You remember being with God before you entered your human body?

 

[Cougarbear]

So he can't hear your prayers? You can't seek his guidance? Do you know what separated means?

Did I say that? No. I said you can’t go up to him and get hug. Where did you get prayer from what I wrote?
So, let’s look at prayer. Have you heard his actual voice after praying? If anything, you feel the Holy Ghost. You are separated from Father in Heaven.

 

[Cougarbear]

But you said receiving our bodies is how we gain intelligence.

Yes, you continue to increase knowledge through learning to control your body, parts and passions keeping them within the bounds the Lord has set. In this case, you are increasing in knowledge and not so much your intelligence.

 

[Cougarbear]

But you said, "We come to first receive a body. It’s how we can progress as an intelligent being. Without this, we can’t."

And I said, why not? Isn't everything possible with God?

And you are saying no. Not everything is possible with God.

You are responsible for your own actions and behaviors. He’s not going to help unless you repent and learn what you need to. He gives us all the tools to succeed. It’s your responsibility to recognize the tools and understand the Gospel better.

 

[Cougarbear]

You remember being with God before you entered your human body?

That knowledge comes from prophets and apostles. Then praying with real intent and without a Double mind to find out for yourself this is true. That’s what I have done.

 

[luiza]

Completely the opposite. Our spirits are by far more intelligent. Our bodies are corrupted by many genetic and environmental means. But, not our intelligence.

Not quite right
It is the Soul that can see and communicate with Universe ( God in Cult terms) .

Consciousness ( Universe ) should not be confused with intelligence ,where the latter simply references what we have as an Academic Knowledge ability .
Hence some very intelligent people are not spiritual , and conversely, many low Academic IQ people are very spiritual and enlightened .

 

[ding]

Did I say that? No. I said you can’t go up to him and get hug. Where did you get prayer from what I wrote?
So, let’s look at prayer. Have you heard his actual voice after praying? If anything, you feel the Holy Ghost. You are separated from Father in Heaven.

Yes, you did say that. Apparently you believe you are separated from God. I don't believe God separates himself from anyone. I believe people separate themselves from God. Your beliefs make God look bad.

 

[ding]

Yes, you continue to increase knowledge through learning to control your body, parts and passions keeping them within the bounds the Lord has set. In this case, you are increasing in knowledge and not so much your intelligence.

I find your dogma hard to believe. According to you, you aren't as intelligent or knowledgeable being with God as a spiritual being, than you are separated from God as a material being.

 

[ding]

You are responsible for your own actions and behaviors. He’s not going to help unless you repent and learn what you need to. He gives us all the tools to succeed. It’s your responsibility to recognize the tools and understand the Gospel better.

I disagree. God is always pruning us. Your dogma makes God look bad.

 

[Cougarbear]

Not quite right
It is the Soul that can see and communicate with Universe ( God in Cult terms) .

Consciousness ( Universe ) should not be confused with intelligence ,where the latter simply references what we have as an Academic Knowledge ability .
Hence some very intelligent people are not spiritual , and conversely, many low Academic IQ people are very spiritual and enlightened .

I would say the third of the host of heaven, our brothers and sisters in the spirit domain before we came to this earth to take on physical bodies lost their spiritualities but not their intelligence. So, yes, intelligence does not equal spiritual or street smarts either. But, that is not the answer to the question. The answer to the question is that we started out as intelligences, gained a spiritual body by our Heavenly Parents. And then, agreed to come and take upon bodies here on earth to learn to control the body, parts and passions in line with the bounds the Lord has set, not us. The more we align our behaviors, thoughts and actions with the Lord's boundaries he has set, the more spiritual we become like him.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes, you did say that. Apparently you believe you are separated from God. I don't believe God separates himself from anyone. I believe people separate themselves from God. Your beliefs make God look bad.

If God doesn't separate himself from us, we could then see him right now. And, no, I said nothing about prayer. Separation is physical. Whether it's our spirit that is no longer in his presence or our physical bodies. Our spirits cannot see him either. We have a vail placed over our minds and spirits. We can only communicate directly with the Holy Ghost who is the conduit to the Father and Son. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son through the Holy Ghost. If God looks bad to you because we are separated from him then you are trying to define God. Man cannot define God. It requires a prophet of apostle that receive information about who and what God is. It's why I reject your creeds Catholic or Protestant. It's man trying to tell me who and what God is. Same with JWs too. They have no prophets or apostles yet try to tell us who and what God is.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

That knowledge comes from prophets and apostles. Then praying with real intent and without a Double mind to find out for yourself this is true. That’s what I have done.

Other than Paul, who was NOT an apostle anyway, none of the apostles wrote the NT.

 

[Cougarbear]

I find your dogma hard to believe. According to you, you aren't as intelligent or knowledgeable being with God as a spiritual being, than you are separated from God as a material being.

It's not me saying this. It's prophets and apostles both ancient and modern today. Of course I'm not as intelligent now because I have this corruptible body interfering with my natural spirit body intelligence. But I'm growing in the areas I need to grow in with my physical body so that I can prepare myself to my resurrected state. Hopefully a celestial body for the celestial kingdom of glory in the presence of the entire Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

 

[Cougarbear]

I disagree. God is always pruning us. Your dogma makes God look bad.

That's because you have a human viewpoint of the plan of God. You don't have a complete understanding or fulness of the Gospel truth about God's plan and how we fit in it. God is not always pruning us. We are able to exercise our free moral agency to choose for ourselves. He rarely interferes with what we do and choose. If he did, he would be forcing us to what he wants us to be instead of guiding us with the tools he's given us, prophets, apostles, evangelists, preacher, teachers, deacons...... Those with authority and knowledge of the fulness or truthfulness of the Gospel have written and will continue to write down that which we need to learn line upon line, precept upon precept. You do know that Jesus himself told his apostles not to write everything down that he taught them, don't you? He even said all that he knew and could tell them could not be contained in all the books of the earth too. You think you have the complete words of God in the Bible and you don't. Your dogma constrains God from providing information you need that I have received because I don't follow your dogma. To end with, you have to prove to God that you are worthy to return to him. If it were as you say, if you don't return then it's God's fault for not providing the knowledge. Your dogma is why people blame God for their problems. They think God will never allow bad things happen to good people.