Zone1 What is Roman Catholicism ??

[zaangalewa]

Why do you hang on to stupidity?

Nice way to call someone else idiot by not saying "You are an idiot." Some people think it is intelligent to do so.

Calling your earthly father, father is not what Jesus was teaching.

My children for example never call me "father". "Father" is for them a terrible word because of their biological father. But I am their father and they are my children.

Stop equating what Jesus was teaching with your foolish attempt to justify calling a man leading people in the Gospel Holy Father. If you are unable to understand this, you have a serious problem.

Ich denke dass Du vielleicht ganz einfach nur unversöhnlich und streitsüchtig bist und dass das keine Eigenschaft echter Christen ist. Du versuchst Menschen vom Glauben an Gott abzubringen, dich selbst an die Stelle Gottes zu stellen und Dir deine eigenen Gesetze zu schaffen die von allen anderen - nur nicht von Dir selbst - eingehalten werden sollen.
=
I think that perhaps you are simply unforgiving and argumentative and that this is not a characteristic of true Christians. You are trying to dissuade people from believing in God, to put yourself in the place of God and to create your own laws that everyone else - except yourself - should obey.

I am a member of Jesus Christ’s church that Jesus has called apostles and prophets with his actual Melchizedek priesthood.

No idea what this is. I'm a Catholic.

Therefore, is founded and works with the authority of Christ with apostles and prophets. Exactly what he did 2000 years ago. The only difference is these are the Latter Days. As the Bible says, this is the restitution of all things time necessary because the former church apostatized. The evidence is no foundation authority of apostles and prophets with the RCC.

The heavens again are open and the Godhead is active again teaching and performing the saving ordinances for salvation and exaltation with apostles and prophets authority of Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church with authority to administer all these ordinances of salvation and exaltation. Heck, the RCC also broke another commandment to do “ALL” things in the name of Jesus Christ. Your Popes can’t even name the church in his name. Another sign of apostasy.

Good grief. The world is really a very strange place, Mormon. You "baptize" dead people. That's ugly, absurd and impossible. That's why I do not see Christians in you. And in general: On psychological reason no one has to be ashamed about the belief of the own ancestors. They believed what they believed - this makes no one to a bad person. And even if the own parents have another religion and are no catholic Christians (all Christians are catholic) they must be respected and honoured by their own children. A problem exists only if the parents are criminals - but we are all also spiritual children of god, our father in heaven. No one has to be criminal because the own parents - or other ancestors - are criminals or had been criminals. God - and hopefully everyone in our church too - gives also shelter in case of absurd prejudices and prejudgements.

 

[Cougarbear]

Nice way to call someone else idiot by not saying "You are an idiot." Some people think it is intelligent to do so.



My children for example never call me "father". "Father" is for them a terrible word because of their biological father. But I am their father and they are my children.



Ich denke dass Du vielleicht ganz einfach nur unversöhnlich und streitsüchtig bist und dass das keine Eigenschaft echter Christen ist. Du versuchst Menschen vom Glauben an Gott abzubringen, dich selbst an die Stelle Gottes zu stellen und Dir deine eigenen Gesetze zu schaffen die von allen anderen - nur nicht von Dir selbst - eingehalten werden sollen.
=
I think that perhaps you are simply unforgiving and argumentative and that this is not a characteristic of true Christians. You are trying to dissuade people from believing in God, to put yourself in the place of God and to create your own laws that everyone else - except yourself - should obey.



No idea what this is. I'm a Catholic.



Good grief. The world is really a very strange place, Mormon. You "baptize" dead people. That's ugly, absurd and impossible. That's why I do not see Christians in you. And in general: On psychological reason no one has to be ashamed about the belief of the own ancestors. They believed what they believed - this makes no one to a bad person. And even if the own parents have another religion and are no catholic Christians (all Christians are catholic) they must be respected and honoured by their own children. A problem exists only if the parents are criminals - but we are all also spiritual children of god, our father in heaven. No one has to be criminal because the own parents - or other ancestors - are criminals or had been criminals. God - and hopefully everyone in our church too - gives also shelter in case of absurd prejudices and prejudgements.

You like to go off the deep end when you cannot defend your position. Even to speaking in tongues too.
1Corinthians 15:29. Jesus taught his apostles to preach and do baptisms for the dead because the dead will be resurrected and in order to go to the Celestial glory baptism is necessary. As well as other temple ordinances. Therefore, with God nothing is impossible. Why did RCC drop baptizing for the dead? Oh ya, apostasy and no apostles.
See, what I and others are doing is letting you know the true gospel of Jesus Christ is back on the earth so that you can believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost the true way.

 

[zaangalewa]

You like to go off the deep end when you cannot defend your position.

I don't need to defend god. God defends me.

... Jesus taught his apostles to preach and do baptisms for the dead ...

Then all Christians are wrong because the absurd non-name Joe Smith - who had ~40 wifes! What a strange role model! - told you in the 19th century what never a Christian before and after him ever believed?

The dead are in God's hand - not in the hands of anyone else. Without to know to be baptized where is the motivation to live in a Christian way? Nobody digs up dry bones, throws them into the water of eternal life and then says to the bones: “Now live godly, human being”. Only innocent children born dead could perhaps be baptized - to comfort their parents - but even that is superfluous, because our hope is they are led directly to paradise by the angels. This is independent from any belief.

 

[Cougarbear]

I don't need to defend god. God defends me.



Then all Christians are wrong because the absurd non-name Joe Smith - who had ~40 wifes! What a strange role model! - told you in the 19th century what never a Christian before and after him ever believed?

The dead are in God's hand - not in the hands of anyone else. Without to know to be baptized where is the motivation to live in a Christian way? Nobody digs up dry bones, throws them into the water of eternal life and then says to the bones: “Now live godly, human being”. Only innocent children born dead could perhaps be baptized - to comfort their parents - but even that is superfluous, because our hope is they are led directly to paradise by the angels. This is independent from any belief.

You are an incredibly ignorant person. As the Saints in Paul's time baptized vicariously, we do the same. What idiot told you we dig up dead people? And, you believed them? What other lies did they tell you? But, you ignore the Bible and the teachings to baptize for the dead.
You need to defend your position concerning God. Because you have been incorrect on everything so far.

 

[ding]

You are an incredibly ignorant person. As the Saints in Paul's time baptized vicariously, we do the same. What idiot told you we dig up dead people? And, you believed them? What other lies did they tell you? But, you ignore the Bible and the teachings to baptize for the dead.
You need to defend your position concerning God. Because you have been incorrect on everything so far.

In 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul mentions a practice where some Corinthian Christians were baptized "for the dead." The most common interpretation suggests that these baptisms were performed vicariously on behalf of those who had died without being baptized. While Paul doesn't explicitly condemn or endorse this practice, he uses this practice to highlight the significance of the resurrection as a hope for those who had died without being baptized.

But I thought the LDS were baptizing the dead who had been baptized under a different faith than LDS. Which is a horse of a different color.

 

[Cougarbear]

In 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul mentions a practice where some Corinthian Christians were baptized "for the dead." The most common interpretation suggests that these baptisms were performed vicariously on behalf of those who had died without being baptized. While Paul doesn't explicitly condemn or endorse this practice, he uses this practice to highlight the significance of the resurrection as a hope for those who had died without being baptized.

But I thought the LDS were baptizing the dead who had been baptized under a different faith than LDS. Which is a horse of a different color.

We don't check to see if the dead had been previously baptized. That is not important. We baptize the dead, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, anyone. If they were previously baptized by another Christian church, it was done without authority of the correct priesthood so we would need to baptize them also.
Also, because there were still apostles around when Paul was also an apostle, there were not a bunch of different sects of Christianity yet. So, is they were baptized, it was most likely by those who still had the authority to bind their baptism in heaven. It's most likely then as you put, they were baptizing for those who didn't have the opportunity to be properly baptized.
I would also point out, Paul was very strict on not using falsehoods to prove truth. So, pointing out to the people who were attempting to "save" their dead who were not baptized, the ordinance of baptism for the dead was endorsed by Paul or he would not have used it to teach about the resurrection.

 

[ding]

We don't check to see if the dead had been previously baptized.

What a shocker.

 

[Cougarbear]

What a shocker.

Like I said, we don't need to. Only if they were baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would it mean we would not need to baptize the dead. That's because they were already baptized by one with the authority to do so. Put it this way, our 16 year old Aaronic Priests have more authority than the Pope. So do our 12 year old Deacons.

 

[ding]

Like I said, we don't need to. Only if they were baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would it mean we would not need to baptize the dead. That's because they were already baptized by one with the authority to do so. Put it this way, our 16 year old Aaronic Priests have more authority than the Pope. So do our 12 year old Deacons.

Isn't the age of consent 8 years old for baptisms into the LDS? And isn't that because you believe they should provide their consent of their own volition? The dead can't give their consent and I would never give my consent to the LDS. Ergo, what you are doing is wrong and self serving.

 

[Cougarbear]

Isn't the age of consent 8 years old for baptisms into the LDS? And isn't that because you believe they should provide their consent of their own volition? The dead can't give their consent and I would never give my consent to the LDS. Ergo, what you are doing is wrong and self serving.

It's the "age of accountability." We do ask the child if they want to be baptized. But, that isn't why we wait until they are 8 years of age. So, no, your assumption is incorrect. The dead are brought to the baptismal font beneath our temples when they will have their baptism done for them. The dead spirit can accept the work or reject the work. In my experience, most accept the work but they still lack a valiant testimony of Jesus Christ for the baptism to prepare the person for celestial glory. Most will reside in terrestrial glory and in telestial glory. For us, we have done our part for the dead. The rest is up to them. They have missionaries in spirit prison to learn and develop a strong testimony of Jesus Christ. As Paul taught, this is a commandment the Lord has given to us to baptize for our kindred dead. So, it is perfectly right to do so. It is self-serving to deny baptism to the dead who cannot do anything about the fact they either were never baptized or baptized by someone with no authority to do so. Why do you deny baptism to these dead that can't help themselves do it?

 

[Cougarbear]

I don't need to defend god. God defends me.



Then all Christians are wrong because the absurd non-name Joe Smith - who had ~40 wifes! What a strange role model! - told you in the 19th century what never a Christian before and after him ever believed?

The dead are in God's hand - not in the hands of anyone else. Without to know to be baptized where is the motivation to live in a Christian way? Nobody digs up dry bones, throws them into the water of eternal life and then says to the bones: “Now live godly, human being”. Only innocent children born dead could perhaps be baptized - to comfort their parents - but even that is superfluous, because our hope is they are led directly to paradise by the angels. This is independent from any belief.

 

[zaangalewa]

@Cougabear

You throw water in the faces of mummies - but to be bapitized and baptizing at all is a living process. So when I have to defend whatever you think I have to defend then I take the weapon of my grandfather - the slingshot. What's your choice Goliath? Then let god decide who from us will live. I and "my" god - the god of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob - or "your" god whose prophet is Joe Smith.

 

[onefour1]

John 3:3-5
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born of water is to receive baptism by one who holds the authority to baptize. To be born of the spirit is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by one who holds the authority to administer this gift. Are we to assume that if a man or woman doesn't receive the chance to hear the gospel during their lifetime that they are eternally damned from the kingdom of God for not receiving baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost while they were alive in this mortal life? No! God provided a means whereby those who never had the chance in this life to hear the gospel could hear it in the hereafter. The gospel is being preached in the world of spirits to those who have died with hearing the gospel in this life (see 1 Peter 3:18-22, and 1 Peter 4:6). The only problem is that spirits are not capable of being baptized by water and of the spirit. Thus vicarious baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost was taught. This is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29:

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Here the Apostle Paul questions that if the dead never rise from the grave, then what shall they who are baptized for the dead do? If the dead rise not at all, then why do then baptize for the dead? This chapter deals with the resurrection of the dead and Paul uses the practice of baptism for the dead to bolster his argument that there is a resurrection from the dead and that for them to enter the kingdom of God they would need vicarious baptism. Because God has required us to be born of the water and of the spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God, He has instituted vicarious baptism and the laying of of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. These vicarious ordinances can be performed for our dead by us and during the millennial reign of Jesus Christ all the names of the dead who have died without baptism by one having true authority will have the opportunity to receive these saving ordinances. Even though we perform these saving ordinances for the dead, they must also accept them unto themselves.

 

[ding]

It's the "age of accountability." We do ask the child if they want to be baptized. But, that isn't why we wait until they are 8 years of age. So, no, your assumption is incorrect. The dead are brought to the baptismal font beneath our temples when they will have their baptism done for them. The dead spirit can accept the work or reject the work. In my experience, most accept the work but they still lack a valiant testimony of Jesus Christ for the baptism to prepare the person for celestial glory. Most will reside in terrestrial glory and in telestial glory. For us, we have done our part for the dead. The rest is up to them. They have missionaries in spirit prison to learn and develop a strong testimony of Jesus Christ. As Paul taught, this is a commandment the Lord has given to us to baptize for our kindred dead. So, it is perfectly right to do so. It is self-serving to deny baptism to the dead who cannot do anything about the fact they either were never baptized or baptized by someone with no authority to do so. Why do you deny baptism to these dead that can't help themselves do it?

And by accountability you mean to say the age in which you believe they can make the CHOICE for themselves.

 

[Cougarbear]

And by accountability you mean to say the age in which you believe they can make the CHOICE for themselves.

They do. Of course, there are exceptions for those whose mental capacity to understand good versus evil like those who are mentally retarded. Some children do take more time and they don't want to be baptized at 8. It's there choice. They have to know though that they are accountable if they know good versus evil. Hopefully, parents help with their growth towards being baptized so they are prepared. We baptize for the remission of sins as the Bible teaches and God does in the Book of Mormon. Up until the age of accountability they are not able to sin. To baptize them before is a slap to the Lord's face. But, that's what apostates do.

 

[ding]

They do. Of course, there are exceptions for those whose mental capacity to understand good versus evil like those who are mentally retarded. Some children do take more time and they don't want to be baptized at 8. It's there choice. They have to know though that they are accountable if they know good versus evil. Hopefully, parents help with their growth towards being baptized so they are prepared. We baptize for the remission of sins as the Bible teaches and God does in the Book of Mormon. Up until the age of accountability they are not able to sin. To baptize them before is a slap to the Lord's face. But, that's what apostates do.

And for the dead you make that choice for them.

I hope you don't mind but I baptized you as a Catholic.

 

[Cougarbear]

And for the dead you make that choice for them.

I hope you don't mind but I baptized you as a Catholic.

No sir. We simply perform the ordinance and the dead spirit person accepts or rejects it.
The Catholic church doesn't perform baptisms for the dead because they are apostate.

 

[ding]

No sir. We simply perform the ordinance and the dead spirit person accepts or rejects it.
The Catholic church doesn't perform baptisms for the dead because they are apostate.

I gave you the name of Francis.

 

[Cougarbear]

I gave you the name of Francis.

If you would like me to baptized anyone in your family I would be happy to do it. If you leave it in your will for me to do yours I would be happy to also do it. I assume you are of the age of 8 or older. If not, the baptism never has to be done. Those who die prior to the age of accountability or mentally challenged do not need baptism. Nothing to repent for.

 

[ding]

If you would like me to baptized anyone in your family I would be happy to do it. If you leave it in your will for me to do yours I would be happy to also do it. I assume you are of the age of 8 or older. If not, the baptism never has to be done. Those who die prior to the age of accountability or mentally challenged do not need baptism. Nothing to repent for.

I've already baptized you, Francis.