Zone1 "...what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ..."

[Meriweather]

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ... (Colossians 1:24)

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

 

[LibertyWeeps]

I dunno.

What ARE the "afflictions of Christ"?

 

[Meriweather]

I dunno.

What ARE the "afflictions of Christ"?

Jesus was condemned to death. A crown (more accurately described as a 'helmet') was rammed on his head; he was whipped; he was forced to carry his cross; he was nailed to the cross and suffered on it for three hours. He gave his life for the redemption of mankind and the forgiveness of sins. He suffered for this.

 

[DennisPTate]

I dunno.

What ARE the "afflictions of Christ"?

I guess one part of this is the revelation that our Creator is afflicted in all of our afflictions?

9;In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

10;But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 63 - King James Version

Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? I...

www.biblegateway.com

I think that all of this fits with the full meaning between what Jesus said about the Sign of Jonah.

Matthew 12"38 to 42......The Sign of Jonah

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees told Jesus, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

39 But he replied to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign. Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, 40 because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment and condemn the people living today, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. But look—something greater than Jonah is here!42 The queen of the south will stand up and condemn the people living today,because she came from so far away to hear the wisdom of Solomon. But look! Something greater than Solomon is here!”

I know of at least one near death experiencer who was shown that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus went to hell until His resurrection.

[Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai Th. D.] : "Jesus shared with me about the time He spent in hell after dying on the cross. He said during the time He was cut off from the Father and the Holy Spirit, He experienced torment and punishment for everyone's sins so that we could escape the pain and punishment we deserve. no human being needs to go to hell because Jesus paid the debt created by all our sins.

He was extremely passionate when He talked about His anguish of separation from God. He said that He had to go deep within Himself to remember and rehearse His identity with the Father because circumstances were screaming the opposite.

ABANDONED BY GOD

Think about it: Jesus had never experienced a moment without the Father's presence until He was dying on the cross and uttered, "'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that it, 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?'" [Matthew 27:46] Satan thought he had defeated Jesus until He received the command from the Father to walk out of hell and take with Him the righteous dead. The Apostle Paul reported in the book of Ephesians, "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men" [Ephesians 4:8-9]. In Revelation 1:18, Jesus said of Himself, "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

The Father promised Jesus that by His following through with the salvation plan, God would unite humanity with Him in a plan for their redemption. Jesus expressed to me with great emotion, in a broken voice, the anguish He went through for us and His great longing that I share its importance with everyone who would listen:
"And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2L8-11."

[Heavenly Visitation, Encountering the Supernatural Jesus, Outreach Edition, Kevin L. Zadai Th. D., page 15 - 17].


www.KevinZadai.org/

 

[The Irish Ram]

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ

Time. Christ's was cut short. It is up to us to make the love Christ has for us known.

 

[Hafar1014]

Jesus was condemned to death. A crown (more accurately described as a 'helmet') was rammed on his head; he was whipped; he was forced to carry his cross; he was nailed to the cross and suffered on it for three hours. He gave his life for the redemption of mankind and the forgiveness of sins. He suffered for this.

There are no universal sins of mankind

 

[Meriweather]

Time. Christ's was cut short. It is up to us to make the love Christ has for us known.

Paul said he was rejoicing in his sufferings, that his sufferings were filling up what was lacking in Christ's.

 

[Meriweather]

There are no universal sins of mankind

What do you believe separates us from God?

 

[Hafar1014]

Choice

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus was condemned to death. A crown (more accurately described as a 'helmet') was rammed on his head; he was whipped; he was forced to carry his cross; he was nailed to the cross and suffered on it for three hours. He gave his life for the redemption of mankind and the forgiveness of sins. He suffered for this.

Meri, I do believe Christ was on the cross for 6 hours. From 9 to noon, was public viewing with scorn and ridicule, and then it got dark from noon to 3, while Christ was being punished by God for our transgressions. They only had 3 hours to get Him down off the cross and into the tomb before their Sabbath started at 6pm.

 

[Cougarbear]

I guess one part of this is the revelation that our Creator is afflicted in all of our afflictions?



I think that all of this fits with the full meaning between what Jesus said about the Sign of Jonah.



I know of at least one near death experiencer who was shown that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus went to hell until His resurrection.

1Peter Chapters three and four say he went to spirit prison to preach the Gospel to those who did not have the full opportunity to choose to accept or reject it. Because we have prophets and apostles who have received these by authority to do so, the LORD actually established a missionary army to go and teach all those from Adam to the present day who are the spirits of the dead. So, he did not spend all his time there. He went to other sheep (saints) around the world as well as those in Jerusalem that saw and spoke with him before His resurrection.

 

[Cassandro]

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ... (Colossians 1:24)

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

He may have been convincing people who were still doubters.

 

[dudmuck]

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ... (Colossians 1:24)

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

according my reading of this, whats lacking is us, what we are doing or participating in:
When, one day, the meaning of that suffering becomes manifest, we shall see that what is “lacking” in Christ’s afflictions is precisely our own participation in them. That participation involves taking upon ourselves seemingly unjust and inexplicable pain and anguish—with patience, courage and boundless trust—with the full knowledge that our afflictions can and do “complete” His own, for our life and for the life of His world.

See the full text here.

 

[Meriweather]

Choice

Choice about what? To sin or not to sin?

 

[Hafar1014]

Choice about what? To sin or not to sin?

My sins are between me and the person I hurt. Sins has nothing to do with the question since there was never original sin in Genesis or universal human sin.
The question was belief in god and thats choice each of us makes. No choice is wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

according my reading of this, whats lacking is us, what we are doing or participating in:
When, one day, the meaning of that suffering becomes manifest, we shall see that what is “lacking” in Christ’s afflictions is precisely our own participation in them. That participation involves taking upon ourselves seemingly unjust and inexplicable pain and anguish—with patience, courage and boundless trust—with the full knowledge that our afflictions can and do “complete” His own, for our life and for the life of His world.

See the full text here.

This seems somewhat similar to St. Augustine's thoughts on this; also the thoughts of Pope John Paul II. St. Augustine was thinking that the Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ, was also meant to participate in Christ's suffering. Pope John Paul II was thinking it is only through our own suffering can we truly gain the a fuller understanding of God's love for us, and through this, our own love becomes more powerful. (I may not have either entirely correct, but your post reminded me of them.)

 

[Meriweather]

Meri, I do believe Christ was on the cross for 6 hours. From 9 to noon, was public viewing with scorn and ridicule, and then it got dark from noon to 3, while Christ was being punished by God for our transgressions. They only had 3 hours to get Him down off the cross and into the tomb before their Sabbath started at 6pm.

I agree that the synoptic gospels mention the third hour (i.e., 9 a.m.). John's gospel places the time closer to noon. While not dismissing the synoptic gospels, John was the only one actually present, so I tend to lend a little more weight to his time.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Paul said he was rejoicing in his sufferings, that his sufferings were filling up what was lacking in Christ's.

Yes. There was absolutely nothing lacking in Christ's redemption of us, which was through His suffering on the cross. Therefore, Paul began to feel that any suffering he did was to further the suffering of Jesus.
Paul quit whining about the thorn in his side, being thrown in jail, being beaten nearly to death. He considered his suffering an extension of Christ's.

End Time prophecies say we may be in the same position that Paul was in, in suffering for Christ. Those souls under God's alter that are beheaded for Christ's sake, will suffer rather than deny Christ.

 

[Hafar1014]

This seems somewhat similar to St. Augustine's thoughts on this; also the thoughts of Pope John Paul II. St. Augustine was thinking that the Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ, was also meant to participate in Christ's suffering. Pope John Paul II was thinking it is only through our own suffering can we truly gain the a fuller understanding of God's love for us, and through this, our own love becomes more powerful. (I may not have either entirely correct, but your post reminded me of them.)

If Jesus is god of love then why do Christians need the threat of hell to force obedience?

 

[Meriweather]

My sins are between me and the person I hurt. Sins has nothing to do with the question since there was never original sin in Genesis or universal human sin.
The question was belief in god and thats choice each of us makes. No choice is wrong.

Were you a member of a large family? If so, you must be aware that one family member's sin again one other person does effect the entire family, and we see the same effect on any close-knit community. As a whole, I have the impression, while not calling it, Original Sin, Adam and Eve's disobedience did leave all of mankind in a position where they had to fight against disobedience (what Christians call sin) and wrongful inclinations.

The main issue in the Garden of Eden was that once Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil, both Jews and Christians believe God banned them from Eden less they also eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. That brings us back to how eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil could bring about such a harsh sentence such as death. If Adam and Eve could not even resist (disobediently) eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, how could they resist the desire to experience lust, and other base desires and experiences? These become practices, and such practices keep us from the presence of God. Therefore, humans must die as we seem unable to resist that temptation to indulge in evil or some aspects of it.