Zone1 "...what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ..."

[Meriweather]

If Jesus is god of love then why do Christians need the threat of hell to force obedience?

I don't know which Christian denomination(s) you are thinking of, but recall the majority of Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) do not believe God throws anyone into hell. Catholic and Orthodox teaching is that hell (also known as eternal separation from God) is a choice each individual makes.

If there is a denomination(s) that believe God marches people into hell, they (and you) may be interested in the story of the final judgment where all are line up to hear their fate. Then they hear a voice saying, "All of you are welcome into heaven." This resulted in some people yelling that it wasn't fair, that unrepentant sinners and atheists should be condemned.

The voice then said: You will have your wish for condemnation. All who are calling for the condemnation of others now stand condemned.

Hafar, you seem to have never heard, or perhaps failed to understand, the primary axiom of Christianity is Sins are forgiven. This was the first and primary teaching of Jesus and Christianity.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If Jesus is god of love then why do Christians need the threat of hell to force obedience?

Why do the Jews sacrifice animals to hide their sin? The Jews made up a name for God because they were afraid to even say His name.
If there was no hell, I would still want to spend eternity in the presence of our Loving Father and His Son.

 

[Ace Nova]

Why do the Jews sacrifice animals to hide their sin? The Jews made up a name for God because they were afraid to even say His name.
If there was no hell, I would still want to spend eternity in the presence of our Loving Father and His Son.

Jewish sacrifice of Animals was ended after the 2nd Temple was destroyed - physically. (As far as I am aware).

Spiritually - The Holy Spirit spoke through the Prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 66:

Whoever slaughters an ox
is like one who kills a man;
whoever sacrifices a lamb
is like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever presents an offering of grain
is like one who offers a swine’s blood;



What does this mean?

Whether Jewish people practice it or not - or even Catholics (Practice burning of incense). Is not what matters. (Most).

What matters is what goes into the sacrifice - your heart (Passion), mind (thoughts), soul (works), strength (effort).

 

[The Irish Ram]

I'm fairly certain that they are going to reprise the tradition when they rebuild the Temple.

 

[ding]

according my reading of this, whats lacking is us, what we are doing or participating in:
When, one day, the meaning of that suffering becomes manifest, we shall see that what is “lacking” in Christ’s afflictions is precisely our own participation in them. That participation involves taking upon ourselves seemingly unjust and inexplicable pain and anguish—with patience, courage and boundless trust—with the full knowledge that our afflictions can and do “complete” His own, for our life and for the life of His world.

See the full text here.

I think Fr John Breck nailed it. The link is quite helpful. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ding]

This seems somewhat similar to St. Augustine's thoughts on this; also the thoughts of Pope John Paul II. St. Augustine was thinking that the Church, as the Mystical Body of Christ, was also meant to participate in Christ's suffering. Pope John Paul II was thinking it is only through our own suffering can we truly gain the a fuller understanding of God's love for us, and through this, our own love becomes more powerful. (I may not have either entirely correct, but your post reminded me of them.)

God's ultimate expression of love was sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ, for humanity's salvation. Our suffering brings us closer to his son. If we let it.

 

[Hafar1014]

Why do the Jews sacrifice animals to hide their sin? The Jews made up a name for God because they were afraid to even say His name.
If there was no hell, I would still want to spend eternity in the presence of our Loving Father and His Son.

Jews were the first culture to stop animal sacrifice and any animal killed for food must be painless. God does not have name in Judaism we use words to describe different aspects of god. When god has name face and personality he becomes an idol like Jesus.

 

[SweetSue92]

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ... (Colossians 1:24)

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

I take it to be temporal, not that anything is lacking in the afflictions of Christ. That is: Jesus has suffered to the fullest for all of us, but He is currently at the right hand of the Father, and it's the church age. So now it's Paul's turn to suffer.

 

[SweetSue92]

My sins are between me and the person I hurt. Sins has nothing to do with the question since there was never original sin in Genesis or universal human sin.
The question was belief in god and thats choice each of us makes. No choice is wrong.

No. Sin offends God. Sin is so serious to God, and He is so perfect, that no one with a stain of sin can enter Heaven.

 

[Hafar1014]

No. Sin offends God. Sin is so serious to God, and He is so perfect, that no one with a stain of sin can enter Heaven.

Then explain why in Genesis God gave humanity free will and the power to sin

 

[SweetSue92]

Then explain why in Genesis God gave humanity free will and the power to sin

Because He wanted beings made in His image, not automatons. Automatons cannot choose and cannot love.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Were you a member of a large family? If so, you must be aware that one family member's sin again one other person does effect the entire family, and we see the same effect on any close-knit community. As a whole, I have the impression, while not calling it, Original Sin, Adam and Eve's disobedience did leave all of mankind in a position where they had to fight against disobedience (what Christians call sin) and wrongful inclinations.

The main issue in the Garden of Eden was that once Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil, both Jews and Christians believe God banned them from Eden less they also eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. That brings us back to how eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil could bring about such a harsh sentence such as death. If Adam and Eve could not even resist (disobediently) eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, how could they resist the desire to experience lust, and other base desires and experiences? These become practices, and such practices keep us from the presence of God. Therefore, humans must die as we seem unable to resist that temptation to indulge in evil or some aspects of it.

.

Very well said.

I had a couple of pretty sinful brothers and believe me, throughout my youth, I paid socially for the notorious things they did.

.

 

[Hafar1014]

Because He wanted beings made in His image, not automatons. Automatons cannot choose and cannot love.

Its likeness not image and Jews have come the closest to this. Christians are still way behind in understanding the meaning of Genesis.

 

[SweetSue92]

Its likeness not image and Jews have come the closest to this. Christians are still way behind in understanding the meaning of Genesis.

From Judaism, how does God accept you into Heaven? What gets you there?

 

[Hafar1014]

From Judaism, how does God accept you into Heaven? What gets you there?

There is only heaven the after life. You define how it occurs. We all go into the afterlife.

 

[SweetSue92]

There is only heaven the after life. You define how it occurs. We all go into the afterlife.

How do you earn God's favor to get there?

 

[SweetSue92]

How do you earn God's favor to get there?

Hafar1014 looks like you're not going to answer. So I will give an answer for the greater good.

Every religion on the planet save Christianity says, you get there by being Good Enough. And then God "forgives" your sin.

The problem is the very attributes of God. He is all loving and all merciful, but also perfectly just. A perfectly just Judge.

No judge can take the jury's verdict of "guilty" and just "wipe away". Or better put, if he does, justice has not been served.

God says, there has been misjustice here and a price must be paid. But because He is all-loving, He sends His Son to pay the price by proxy. Thus not violating any of His immutable characteristics.

We cannot, and never could, earn this grace. We only accept it on faith.

 

[Hafar1014]

Hafar1014 looks like you're not going to answer. So I will give an answer for the greater good.

Every religion on the planet save Christianity says, you get there by being Good Enough. And then God "forgives" your sin.

The problem is the very attributes of God. He is all loving and all merciful, but also perfectly just. A perfectly just Judge.

No judge can take the jury's verdict of "guilty" and just "wipe away". Or better put, if he does, justice has not been served.

God says, there has been misjustice here and a price must be paid. But because He is all-loving, He sends His Son to pay the price by proxy. Thus not violating any of His immutable characteristics.

We cannot, and never could, earn this grace. We only accept it on faith.

The god of Christianity uses threats to compel obedience. Thats not a loving god. Thats the god created by a primitive mind.
There is no original sin in Genesis therefore Jesus never existed. Hes an idol created to support a violent religion as they killed the Gnostics and persecuted Jews for 3000 years. There is no devil or hell.

 

[Quantrill]

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ... (Colossians 1:24)

What do you suppose Paul thought was lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

(Col. 1:24) "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church."

(Acts 9:4) "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Our suffering for sin is not the question here. Only Christ can pay the price for sin. But we, because we are His Body, the Church, are going to suffer in this world ruled by Satan.

And we are not suffering because the world hates us. We suffer because the world hates Christ. Were Christ here today as He was in the first century A.D., He would be persecuted still. Thus because we are His Body on earth at this time, it is we who are attacked and afflicted by the world.

But Christ still feels those afflictions also. ''Saul, why persecutest thou me?" (Acts 9:4) Any attack on a believer no matter how small or large, is an attack upon Christ, and He feels it. And He must feel it, until He comes and sets things right.

Quantrill

 

[SweetSue92]

The god of Christianity uses threats to compel obedience. Thats not a loving god. Thats the god created by a primitive mind.
There is no original sin in Genesis therefore Jesus never existed. Hes an idol created to support a violent religion as they killed the Gnostics and persecuted Jews for 3000 years. There is no devil or hell.

I mean you can keep saying the same stuff, doesn't make it more valid.

God doesn't want obedience, as first and foremost goal. He wants us to know and love Him.