What is it with these anti gun idiots?

[Blues Man]

What they do works. What we do doesn’t.

Your opinion.

I am not responsible for the crimes other people commit so there is absolutely no need to restrict my freedoms.

Like I said if you want to live in a country that restricts everything we call a right then feel free to move.

See if you like living where you can't read any book you want to, that you will be arrested for offending someone, where you can't even carry a pocket knife not approved of by the fucking government.

People like me who own guns are not the problem and have absolutely nothing to do with the crime rate.

 

[candycorn]

Your opinion.

Nope. Well known fact unless you’re a murder aficionado

I am not responsible for the crimes other people commit so there is absolutely no need to restrict my freedoms.

You’re not responsible for people who are poor drivers either but there are limits on how fast you can go, what type of vehicle you can drive, etc...

Like I said if you want to live in a country that restricts everything we call a right then feel free to move.

You have restrictions here. Few (if any) other countries “restrict everything”. You’re just making shit up.

See if you like living where you can't read any book you want to, that you will be arrested for offending someone, where you can't even carry a pocket knife not approved of by the fucking government.

Gee, in this nation, you have limits too. Somehow 500+ million europeans go through their daily lives without these onerous restrictions you keep dreaming up.

People like me who own guns are not the problem and have absolutely nothing to do with the crime rate.

The 2nd Amendment is responsible for the number of gun deaths we have. Any adult with eyeballs and two working brain cells can see it.

The Uvalde shooter could have bought 300 more guns and tens of thousands of more rounds of ammo and never have violated a law until he killed someone. This is a simple fact.

 

[Blues Man]

Nope. Well known fact unless you’re a murder aficionado

You’re not responsible for people who are poor drivers either but there are limits on how fast you can go, what type of vehicle you can drive, etc...

You have restrictions here. Few (if any) other countries “restrict everything”. You’re just making shit up.

Gee, in this nation, you have limits too. Somehow 500+ million europeans go through their daily lives without these onerous restrictions you keep dreaming up.

The 2nd Amendment is responsible for the number of gun deaths we have. Any adult with eyeballs and two working brain cells can see it.

The Uvalde shooter could have bought 300 more guns and tens of thousands of more rounds of ammo and never have violated a law until he killed someone. This is a simple fact.

Except me carrying a gun poses no threat to anyone else's life or property.

The gun/driving analogy fails in every instance.

I have very few restrictions on the guns I can own. I can even own a fully automatic weapon if I want to. I can own a handgun if I want to. Handguns are banned in lots of the countries you want to emulate.

You are free to move to any of these countries and give up liberties you take for granted every day. You won/t miss them until they are gone

And no the 2nd is not responsible for anything. People commit crimes. People commit crimes with guns even in countries that have banned entire classes of guns.


And I knew it was just a matter of time before you went back to the old bullshit argument that everyone is a criminal just waiting for the chance to commit a crime, especially those people who own guns.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Any adult with eyeballs and two working brain cells can see it.

You do not speak for any adults with two or more functioning brain cells.

 

[AZrailwhale]

In the graphic, the figures are excluding suicide. What other deaths are you talking about?

How about accidental shootings?

 

[AZrailwhale]

LOL...

Thanks for making my point for me.

6,000 murders a year is too many. You're okay with it. That is your idiotic stance that you, bizarrely, are so proud of.

Weird.

One murder a year is too many. But in a nation of over three hundred thirty million people, six thousand isn't even a rounding error.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nah, we need to mirror the effective laws of the other first world nations who have solved this problem decades ago. Anyone who is truly against gun violence would agree; unfortunately you guys just see it as a cost of doing business.

They didn't solve it, they never had it in the first place. Your other first world countries all started out as monarchies where lethal force was the sole province of the crown. When firearms evolved, the power structures made very sure that access to them was limited to the upper strata of society. That's why violent crime was mostly committed with edged weapons or clubs.

 

[AZrailwhale]

What they do works. What we do doesn’t.

Except it doesn't work anymore. Gun crimes are skyrocketing in all those countries due to criminals being able to source military grade firearms and explosives. Also, the homogeneous populations had a social bias against violent crime that doesn't exist anymore due to the importation of immigrants who don't share the dominant culture.

 

[2aguy]

I live in suburban Phoenix. Zero need for a gun to defend myself. But then again, I don't live a high risk lifestyle like apparently the gun-nuts do.

You are a magic thinker....the Israeli government thought the same way you do, and took rifles and pistols away from all of those people who were raped, tortured, murdered and mutilated....every day in this country people are raped, robbed, murdered, beaten, stabbed.......

and because you haven't been a victim yet, you want to make sure others are as helpless as you are.

 

[2aguy]

Nope. Well known fact unless you’re a murder aficionado

You’re not responsible for people who are poor drivers either but there are limits on how fast you can go, what type of vehicle you can drive, etc...

You have restrictions here. Few (if any) other countries “restrict everything”. You’re just making shit up.

Gee, in this nation, you have limits too. Somehow 500+ million europeans go through their daily lives without these onerous restrictions you keep dreaming up.

The 2nd Amendment is responsible for the number of gun deaths we have. Any adult with eyeballs and two working brain cells can see it.

The Uvalde shooter could have bought 300 more guns and tens of thousands of more rounds of ammo and never have violated a law until he killed someone. This is a simple fact.

No, the 2nd Amendment saves lives every single day. The Centers for Disease Control research shows Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year......other research has it just as high.....

Yes.....the Uvalde shooter was one of 12 mass public shooters that year out of a population of 350 million people, 20 million AR-15 rifles, 22 million people who can legally carry guns in public for self defense....

And Oct. 7 happened just the way you wanted it to happen, the majority of those victims did not have guns......good for you...
======

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

==============

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press

 

[candycorn]

....every day in this country people are raped, robbed, murdered, beaten, stabbed.......

Usually by a member of the "well regulated militia". True or false?

 

[candycorn]

No, the 2nd Amendment saves lives every single day. The Centers for Disease Control research shows Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year......other research has it just as high.....

Total Bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

Usually by a member of the "well regulated militia". True or false?

Are you insane? Just asking.

Criminals are not members of any function of regular society.

 

[2aguy]

Total Bullshit.

Tell that to all the public and private researchers, including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice, both doing research under the clinton and obama regimes.......

 

[candycorn]

Are you insane? Just asking.

Criminals are not members of any function of regular society.

True or false, the uvalde shooter was a member of the "well-regulated militia", right?

 

[Blues Man]

True or false, the uvalde shooter was a member of the "well-regulated militia", right?

Irrelevant.

The right to bear arms is not predicated on being in any militia.

 

[candycorn]

Tell that to all the public and private researchers, including the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice, both doing research under the clinton and obama regimes.......

This is the Rose Bowl...100,000 people.

According to you, this many people defended themselves with a gun last year.

Didn't happen.

 

[candycorn]

Irrelevant.

The right to bear arms is not predicated on being in any militia.

So he was a member of the "well regulated militia" right up until he iced the first kid. Right?

 

[Blues Man]

So he was a member of the "well regulated militia" right up until he iced the first kid. Right?

Irrelevant

The right of the people to bear arms is not predicated on being a member of any militia.

 

[candycorn]

Irrelevant

The right of the people to bear arms is not predicated on being a member of any militia.

Yep..you think any insane fucker should be allowed to buy as many guns and bullets as they want.