What I love about the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob

[random3434]

honey, I already posted the PDF of the court case. It went all the way to the US Supreme Court and they denied hearing it. I'm sorry but it's so true. Thomas Moore presented the case. Judge Phyllis Hamilton presided. Backed up by the 9th Circuit Court.

And guess who appointed Hamilton? Clinton.

Hi JenT!

Wow, this is shocking news. Can you please post the link to that law? I guess I haven't gotten the memo yet from my school. I want to be prepared when I go back in a month, so I don't break any laws!

Thanks!

Anyone ever hear of stare decisis? Setting precedent? Courts being bound by similar cases already adjudicated? The 9th Circuit may not have jurisdiction over the east coast but that ruling is allowed to argue cases anywhere, and with the US Supreme Court refusing to hear it, it stands, and that gives all kinds of legal leverage, especially when the ACLU knows how to wield it. Parents with children in public schools are not going to be advised by their lawyers to take the school system to court over their children bowing down to Allah because precedent has been set, and again, by refusing to even hear it, the US Supreme Court has already sent the message. It stands.

But you said it was a law. I'm just asking you to link to that law, not for some hypothetical thoughts of what you think may happen.

Thanks again for the link to that law, I'm interested in reading it!

 

[JenT]

Hi JenT!

Wow, this is shocking news. Can you please post the link to that law? I guess I haven't gotten the memo yet from my school. I want to be prepared when I go back in a month, so I don't break any laws!

Thanks!

Anyone ever hear of stare decisis? Setting precedent? Courts being bound by similar cases already adjudicated? The 9th Circuit may not have jurisdiction over the east coast but that ruling is allowed to argue cases anywhere, and with the US Supreme Court refusing to hear it, it stands, and that gives all kinds of legal leverage, especially when the ACLU knows how to wield it. Parents with children in public schools are not going to be advised by their lawyers to take the school system to court over their children bowing down to Allah because precedent has been set, and again, by refusing to even hear it, the US Supreme Court has already sent the message. It stands.

But you said it was a law. I'm just asking you to link to that law, not for some hypothetical thoughts of what you think may happen.

Thanks again for the link to that law, I'm interested in reading it!

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
  
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
  
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
  
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
  
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

 

[random3434]

Anyone ever hear of stare decisis? Setting precedent? Courts being bound by similar cases already adjudicated? The 9th Circuit may not have jurisdiction over the east coast but that ruling is allowed to argue cases anywhere, and with the US Supreme Court refusing to hear it, it stands, and that gives all kinds of legal leverage, especially when the ACLU knows how to wield it. Parents with children in public schools are not going to be advised by their lawyers to take the school system to court over their children bowing down to Allah because precedent has been set, and again, by refusing to even hear it, the US Supreme Court has already sent the message. It stands.

But you said it was a law. I'm just asking you to link to that law, not for some hypothetical thoughts of what you think may happen.

Thanks again for the link to that law, I'm interested in reading it!

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
  
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
  
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
  
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
  
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

 

[JenT]

It happens a lot, even within our religion. Some people are determined to vilify other belief systems or religious interpretations and refuse to emphasize common ground and positive aspects of the beliefs of others.

and who are you and Sunni trying to villify right now?

Again, all I did was post why I love the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Sunni Man told me I had to include Ishmael.

I stated why I don't. It's not Biblical.

I have posted Biblical backup. I was asked to quote the Koran and I did. Are you trying to silence me? If I don't accept that we have common ground, suddenly you're posting and reposting that I'm attacking???

Last time I looked this was a free country though that's looking perilous, and now politically correct pressure to embrace Islam? Right here from a poster on this message board.

Which is ironic because Kalam, tell me, what does Sharia law say is to happen to anyone that converts to Christianity? What is Sharia law based on?

Apparently Islam, approaching in "peace", is keenly aware of the differences, even as you claim common ground. Sure like that's REALLY common ground...something to be killed over.

Again, Jen, I don't want to sound mean or condescending, but your posts regarding Islam reek of exposure to propaganda. I don't possess the self control necessary to sit silently while my religious beliefs are being misconstrued and presented as some sort of abomination.

Your beliefs are not an abomination to you and I respect that. Believe whatever you want to believe. But you do not have the authority to tell me that I must include Ishmael when I speak of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It's not Biblical.

And for teachers to tell my children to get on their hands and knees and pray to Allah and repeat by heart that Allah is the only god worthy of praise and Mohammed is his messenger...THAT is very much an abomination and violation of my religious freedom as well as my children's .

PDF of the court case allowing teachers to require students in 7th grade to recite worship to Allah by heart
http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

How is Ishmael not biblical? Sarah ordered a slave (Hagar) to have sex with her husband and produce a child (Ishmael) because she couldn't at the time. (I would call that accessory to rape, but times were different then). Then, when Sarah did conceive, she saw Isaac and Ishmael playing together, and didn't want the bastard boy inheriting her legitimate son's legacy. She insisted they be sent away,into the desert to die, "God" told Abraham to obey his wife, and when Hagar cried in the desert for lack of water and fear that her and her child would die, God sent water and a message that Ishmael would live, and that he too would be a leader of nations. Its all in Genesis 21:8-10, so I'd like to know how you came to believe Ishmael (God Hears) is not part of Abraham, half-brother to Isaac, and ignored by the God of your bible.

Hi Barb.

I already posted the verses that show God called Isaac "your ONLY son" (emphasis mine) and how Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no". It is true that God heard Ishmael and his mother, promised to make a great nation from him because of her affliction, but as inheritor of Abraham, it says:

9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” 11 And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
12 But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. 13 Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.”

God pointed out that he was of Abraham's seed, but He backed up Sarah in that Ishmael would not be heir with her son.

MOST of all, God Himself described Himself as "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." He did not say Ishmael. God was pointing at the root of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ. There is none of Ishmael's blood in Jesus Christ or His lineage.

For context: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 21;&version=50;

 

[JenT]

But you said it was a law. I'm just asking you to link to that law, not for some hypothetical thoughts of what you think may happen.

Thanks again for the link to that law, I'm interested in reading it!

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
  
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
  
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
  
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
  
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

Do you need me to give you a link to Roe v. Wade to show you how our legal system works? How our laws are formed?

http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

 

[Sunni Man]

and who are you and Sunni trying to villify right now?

Again, all I did was post why I love the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Sunni Man told me I had to include Ishmael.

I stated why I don't. It's not Biblical.

I have posted Biblical backup. I was asked to quote the Koran and I did. Are you trying to silence me? If I don't accept that we have common ground, suddenly you're posting and reposting that I'm attacking???

Last time I looked this was a free country though that's looking perilous, and now politically correct pressure to embrace Islam? Right here from a poster on this message board.

Which is ironic because Kalam, tell me, what does Sharia law say is to happen to anyone that converts to Christianity? What is Sharia law based on?

Apparently Islam, approaching in "peace", is keenly aware of the differences, even as you claim common ground. Sure like that's REALLY common ground...something to be killed over.




Your beliefs are not an abomination to you and I respect that. Believe whatever you want to believe. But you do not have the authority to tell me that I must include Ishmael when I speak of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It's not Biblical.

And for teachers to tell my children to get on their hands and knees and pray to Allah and repeat by heart that Allah is the only god worthy of praise and Mohammed is his messenger...THAT is very much an abomination and violation of my religious freedom as well as my children's .

PDF of the court case allowing teachers to require students in 7th grade to recite worship to Allah by heart
http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

How is Ishmael not biblical? Sarah ordered a slave (Hagar) to have sex with her husband and produce a child (Ishmael) because she couldn't at the time. (I would call that accessory to rape, but times were different then). Then, when Sarah did conceive, she saw Isaac and Ishmael playing together, and didn't want the bastard boy inheriting her legitimate son's legacy. She insisted they be sent away,into the desert to die, "God" told Abraham to obey his wife, and when Hagar cried in the desert for lack of water and fear that her and her child would die, God sent water and a message that Ishmael would live, and that he too would be a leader of nations. Its all in Genesis 21:8-10, so I'd like to know how you came to believe Ishmael (God Hears) is not part of Abraham, half-brother to Isaac, and ignored by the God of your bible.

and how Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

JenT, Please show me the verse were God said "no" to recognizing Ishmael?

Thank You

 

[Ravi]

But you said it was a law. I'm just asking you to link to that law, not for some hypothetical thoughts of what you think may happen.

Thanks again for the link to that law, I'm interested in reading it!

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

There isn't one, which I'm sure will come as no huge surprise. Trolls these days.

Here is what she is hysterical over.

Appeal on school's lesson in Muslim culture is rejected

 

[random3434]

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
  
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
  
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
  
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
  
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

Do you need me to give you a link to Roe v. Wade to show you how our legal system works? How our laws are formed?

http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

LOL, that's not a link to the law!

Dearest JenT......

Do you think by changing the subject of what I'm asking you is going to make me quit asking you the same question? Where is the LAW that states what you are implying. That is not a LAW you posted.

Now, again:

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

 

[xotoxi]

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

Do you need me to give you a link to Roe v. Wade to show you how our legal system works? How our laws are formed?

http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

LOL, that's not a link to the law!

Dearest JenT......

Do you think by changing the subject of what I'm asking you is going to make me quit asking you the same question? Where is the LAW that states what you are implying. That is not a LAW you posted.

Now, again:

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

I read the link that Ravi posted.

It looks like there is no law that requires you to teach Islam in the class, but there is a Supreme Court ruling denying an appeal against a school lesson teaching muslim culture...which is essentially as good as a law, if not better.

That means that you can indoctrinate your students with Islam without any fear. Might I suggest that you do this just after your Homosexuality Experimentation lab course and just prior to saying your end-of-day prayers to Obama.

 

[JBeukema]

Teaching about other cultures is common in schools and is not equal to teaching children to believe in a religion

 

[amrchaos]

Did someone say "Atheists raising BS" or something like that??

Oh man--too many Ath's jumped on this thread. Oh well, I go back to the thread in which Atheists getting coverted win prizes. How idiotic can a network be???

 

[Ralph]

And now when I read people claiming there is no God, or demands of proof, evidence, "show me", accusations of God, etc., well, how does one explain something as phenomenal as a complete turn around of your life, a restoring, an absolute knowledge of Him who never leaves us? I could write of the miracles I've seen, I could write of the obvious evidence of the Bible and all the prophesies, the miracle of the Bible itself, but unless a person tastes and sees that it is good, unless the call of the Holy Spirit is responded to...

You have to understand that, though interesting, personal anecdotes can't be considered sufficient evidence for the existence of something as significant as a Biblical God. If you look hard enough, I think you'll find that you're solely responsible for turning your life around and that attributing that accomplishment to an unprovable supernatural being only diminishes the significance of what you did. I don't feel inclined to believe that God actively interferes in the affairs of our universe. Wouldn't the need to intervene to solve problems within his own creation imply a lack of foreknowledge on God's part?

First one must understand just what Biblical foreknowledge is consisted of. God does not prognosticate by LOOKING INTO A NON-EXISTENT future. As time is nothing but a mathematical formula that measures distance traveled as compared to the movement of certain celestial bodies. The only place where time runs concurrently with the PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE occupying the same physical space is between the ears of mankind in hypothetical speculation....or in the imagination gestated in some HOLLYWOOD script (SCIENCE FICTION). Even the God of Creation can not look into a future that is yet to unfold and is totally fluid....depending upon the free will actions of men and nature.

Thus...God in clear specific language declares and separates the PAST from the Future in a truly magnificent display of His Divine traits of Omnipotence, Omniscience (wisdom)...and Omnipresence..by Planning for the future in all His Omniscient wisdom at some point in the past...and then manipulates a predestined point of the future..at His choosing...by manipulating the PRESENT when it comes to the point in time He has pre-selected, by a display of Omnipotent abilities. He does so because He CAN....He is Omnipresent (EVERYWHERE)...because we and the entire universe have our very existence WITHIN GOD. (Act 17:28).

God explains as much, "Remember the former things of old (the past): for I am God, and there is no else; I am God, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the THINGS THAT ARE NOT YET DONE (the future), saying, MY COUNSEL (PLANS) shall stand, and I WILL DO (at some point in the future)....MY PLEASURE. Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth MY COUNSEL (carries out His plans) from a far country; YEA, I HAVE SPOKEN IT (in the past), I WILL BRING IT TO PASS (not happened as yet, but will, at a point of His choosing); I HAVE PURPOSED IT (planned it).....I WILL (clearly not yet having taken place) DO IT." -- Isaiah 46:9-11. God plans it and makes it happen by manipulating the PRESENT...when it comes about. Who's going to stop HIM, man? He is immortal...eternally existing, its not like He does not have the time or patience to wait for the correct time to implement HIS divine plans based upon His WISDOM.

Clearly God does not know anything about a non-existent future....because it has not yet unfolded. No one, can see into a future in a continual state of flux...not even the God of Creation. Or else....just how could God have been grieved in His heart that man (through the free will choices of his own reasoning would by majority continually choose EVIL OVER GOOD....the thing that makes mankind LIKE/IMAGINE God -- Genesis 3:22).

"And God saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it REPENTED the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart." -- Genesis 6:5-6. If He knew in advance...what man would choose...then man would not have FREE WILL. Nor could nature run its natural course. He did not know what man would choose.

Also....if God knows the future down to every little iota and tittle...just how was the Christ (....The imagine of the invisible God...God incarnate -- Col. 1:15) taken by surprise at the FAITH of the Centurion, if He knew the future? ( Matthew 8:5-13). He could not have. No one can tell the future....except God, simply because He has the Omnipotent ability to manipulate physical reality...when He chooses. Even the last day of mankind is only known by God...not even the angels know of that day (Matthew 24:36)...that's because God is longsuffering with man kind and wants all men to have the opportunity to find salvation by COMPREHENDING the TRUTH. -- 1 Tim. 2:3,4

 

[JenT]

How is Ishmael not biblical? Sarah ordered a slave (Hagar) to have sex with her husband and produce a child (Ishmael) because she couldn't at the time. (I would call that accessory to rape, but times were different then). Then, when Sarah did conceive, she saw Isaac and Ishmael playing together, and didn't want the bastard boy inheriting her legitimate son's legacy. She insisted they be sent away,into the desert to die, "God" told Abraham to obey his wife, and when Hagar cried in the desert for lack of water and fear that her and her child would die, God sent water and a message that Ishmael would live, and that he too would be a leader of nations. Its all in Genesis 21:8-10, so I'd like to know how you came to believe Ishmael (God Hears) is not part of Abraham, half-brother to Isaac, and ignored by the God of your bible.

and how Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

JenT, Please show me the verse were God said "no" to recognizing Ishmael?

Thank You

WHY is everybody telling me to go back and search old posts for them? ITS THERE.

Sorry but I have limited time here, probably won't even be able to read all this

 

[Sunni Man]

and how Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

JenT, Please show me the verse were God said "no" to recognizing Ishmael?

Thank You

WHY is everybody telling me to go back and search old posts for them? ITS THERE.

Simple

When you post misinformation

You will be challenged to back up your false claims


You said: " Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

What chapter and verse can this be found JenT??

 

[JenT]

Now that's just silly.

"Stare decisis." "Setting precedent." "Courts bound by..."

LAW -

• A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.
• The body of rules and principles governing the affairs of a community and enforced by a political authority; a legal system: international law.
• The condition of social order and justice created by adherence to such a system: a breakdown of law and civilized behavior.
• A set of rules or principles dealing with a specific area of a legal system: tax law; criminal law.
• A piece of enacted legislation.
• The system of judicial administration giving effect to the laws of a community: All citizens are equal before the law.
• Legal action or proceedings; litigation: submit a dispute to law.
• An impromptu or extralegal system of justice substituted for established judicial procedure: frontier law.
• An agency or agent responsible for enforcing the law. Often used with the: “The law . . . stormed out of the woods as the vessel was being relieved of her cargo” (Sid Moody).
• Informal. A police officer. Often used with the.
• The science and study of law; jurisprudence.
• Knowledge of law.
• The profession of an attorney.

Of all the things you can debate about you want to debate about the definition of "law"?

Whatever floats your boat. I got other posts to read.

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

There isn't one, which I'm sure will come as no huge surprise. Trolls these days.

Here is what she is hysterical over.

Appeal on school's lesson in Muslim culture is rejected

Thank you Ravi. But hysterical? The only time I can remember being hysterical is when my 4 year old went missing and I was told he was at "Skinner's house" by a 5 year old. Skinner turned out to be a puppy.

But thanks for the backup. Maybe it doesn't matter to YOU that our kids are told to recite by heart the very words that the terrorists repeat before they behead our troops, but since I believe God when He said not to know other gods, and since public schools can tell our kids to praise Allah on their hands and knees, stating that Allah is the only god they serve and none other is worthy, BY HEART, when the word "Christmas" is treated like a dirty word, well I kind of have an objection.

If you don't, (shrug) fine.

 

[JenT]

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

Do you need me to give you a link to Roe v. Wade to show you how our legal system works? How our laws are formed?

http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

LOL, that's not a link to the law!

Dearest JenT......

Do you think by changing the subject of what I'm asking you is going to make me quit asking you the same question? Where is the LAW that states what you are implying. That is not a LAW you posted.

Now, again:

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

(sigh) This is like offering someone a bottle of wine and they say "that's not wine, I don't see any grapes"

 

[Kalam]

I WROTE:
But the cornerstone of Ilsam is the "shahada" which states:

"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."

YOU WROTE: That is because belief in Muhammad's status as a messenger is one of the primary distinctions between Islam and similar belief systems.

Say: We believe in Allah and that which has been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them and to Him do we submit. - 2:136

Okay. Are you arguing that the belief expressed by this Qur'anic verse is not Islamic?

Mary Habeck, Associate Professor of Yale University and highly respected military historian disagrees with you. She presented "Jihadist Ideology" covered by C-Span.

I'm afraid that I know more about my religion and its tenets and practices than Mrs. Habeck. Sorry, she's absolutely incorrect if she disagrees with me about Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad not being a holy book.

Habeck explained the military strategies based on Islam's holy books, the Quran, the Hadith and the Sira.

As I said, "the Hadith" is not a single book or collection, nor are ahadith holy. Sirat Rasul Allah is not holy; it's an 8th century biographical work. The holy book of Islam is the Qur'an. Any and all other texts are peripheral.

According to Habeck, the Sira is not well known in the West but very widely known in the Islamic world defining the "Method of Muhammad." Habeck says that in the Sira, Muhammad is the perfect man believed to have the perfect method for applying Islam.

Your impression of Islam is based on cherry-picked Qur'an quotes and the ideas of an ill-informed military historian. Do you see why it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to take your criticism of Islam seriously?

Jihadis believe that his successes were so miraculous they could only have been supported by Allah and if they want to experience the same success, they have to follow Muhammad’s footsteps exactly.

If jihadi means terrorist, Muhammad did not employ self-detonation, hijackings, and the indiscriminate destruction of civilian lives as methods of defending Islam.

Mary Habeck method of Muhammad

Kind of sounds like what Osama bin Laden was saying, doesn't it?

Yes, the link is rife with inaccuracies and mischaracterizations, not unlike bin Laden's ideology. Why...?

You asked me where it was written, here is one I believe there are more

It is not from the Qur'an. Have you found any Qur'anic verses?

Hadith Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

That citation is not helpful to me unless you specify which hadith collection the quoted passage comes from...

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

This hadith contradicts the Qur'an and is, therefore, unequivocally unauthentic and false.

The textbook I quoted is one of the biggest textbook producers in the country! Houghton Mifflin (publisher) is NATIONWIDE and very popular! Textbooks are not cheap and schools try to use them for a decade or more. They are still using this book at my son's school.

And the students there are required to complete the assignments in the Islam unit?

Great. Now that my sons are old enough, they decide for themselves

That's respectable.

but in the 6th and 7th grade they were impressionable and easily led astray. SoundVision, an Islam education outlet, even wrote about this though they have removed it from their website since my article came out:

• "School students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and ideas. Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should take ample advantage of this opportunity and expose their school mates to the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
  
• "It has been proven that one to one contact with non-Muslim students in the classroom is the most effective way to share Islam...It is advised that brother work on the non-Muslim boys and likewise sister work on girls."

SoundVision, based on its website, seems to be a non-profit organization that primarily targets Muslims. I browsed around their website and found nothing about them providing educational material to convert public school students to Islam. Have they provided materials and actively attempted to proselytize in public schools?

I encourage every parent to check with their local teacher. I have heard from different parents all over the nation complaining about it.

I heard nothing about it until now. In our local school system, education about Islam before high school was limited to a few textbook paragraphs that weren't even included in the curriculum.

so you just wave your hand over a national textbook, call it defunct and it goes away?

And what do you base that on?

On the absence of any evidence that the textbook in question is still widely used.

The thing is, when God wants it heard, it doesn't matter if it comes from an unknown soccer mom, it gets heard. The Associated Press, FoxNews, USA Today, New York Post, Washington Times, Assist News, Salon, Michael Medved, even the very liberal Village Voice to name a few.

Invoking what you believe to be God's will is an argument is no more compelling to me than citing yourself as a source... can you provide links to some of the articles written by these media outlets?

If a holy book says "kill the infidel" and the infidel is killed, does it really matter how anybody finds it?

Yes. If you remove a passage from its context, thereby distorting its actual meaning, any argument based on that passage becomes dishonest and useless.

I know. Hillary is still negotiating. We feel safer already.



Take care Kalam! Nice chattin with ya!

Had enough already?

 

[Ravi]

Thank you for that definition of what a "law" is.

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

Thanks!

There isn't one, which I'm sure will come as no huge surprise. Trolls these days.

Here is what she is hysterical over.

Appeal on school's lesson in Muslim culture is rejected

Thank you Ravi. But hysterical? The only time I can remember being hysterical is when my 4 year old went missing and I was told he was at "Skinner's house" by a 5 year old. Skinner turned out to be a puppy.

But thanks for the backup. Maybe it doesn't matter to YOU that our kids are told to recite by heart the very words that the terrorists repeat before they behead our troops, but since I believe God when He said not to know other gods, and since public schools can tell our kids to praise Allah on their hands and knees, stating that Allah is the only god they serve and none other is worthy, BY HEART, when the word "Christmas" is treated like a dirty word, well I kind of have an objection.

If you don't, (shrug) fine.

Just because some terrorists say "God is great" it doesn't follow that anyone that says it is a terrorist.

Regardless, you lied about the law.

 

[JBeukema]

(T)ime is nothing but a mathematical formula that measures distance traveled as compared to the movement of certain celestial bodies.

Incorrect. You confuse time with the measurement of time.

The only place where time runs concurrently with the PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE occupying the same physical space is between the ears of mankind in hypothetical speculation....or in the imagination gestated in some HOLLYWOOD script (SCIENCE FICTION). Even the God of Creation can not look into a future that is yet to unfold and is totally fluid....depending upon the free will actions of men and nature.

Thus...God in clear specific language declares and separates the PAST from the Future in a truly magnificent display of His Divine traits of Omnipotence, Omniscience (wisdom)...and Omnipresence..by Planning for the future in all His Omniscient wisdom at some point in the past...and then manipulates a predestined point of the future..at His choosing...by manipulating the PRESENT when it comes to the point in time He has pre-selected, by a display of Omnipotent abilities. He does so because He CAN....He is Omnipresent (EVERYWHERE)...because we and the entire universe have our very existence WITHIN GOD. (Act 17:28).

Clearly God does not know anything about a non-existent future....because it has not yet unfolded. No one, can see into a future in a continual state of flux...not even the God of Creation. Or else....just how could God have been grieved in His heart that man (through the free will choices of his own reasoning would by majority continually choose EVIL OVER GOOD....the thing that makes mankind LIKE/IMAGINE God -- Genesis 3:22).

Just because one can see the entirety of a given spime does not mean one chooses to view all parts of it

 

[RodISHI]

Do you need me to give you a link to Roe v. Wade to show you how our legal system works? How our laws are formed?

http://www.blessedcause.org/protest/Islam Ruling 12-05-03.pdf

LOL, that's not a link to the law!

Dearest JenT......

Do you think by changing the subject of what I'm asking you is going to make me quit asking you the same question? Where is the LAW that states what you are implying. That is not a LAW you posted.

Now, again:

Now, where is the law that states what you are implying? Can you give me a link please?

I read the link that Ravi posted.

It looks like there is no law that requires you to teach Islam in the class, but there is a Supreme Court ruling denying an appeal against a school lesson teaching muslim culture...which is essentially as good as a law, if not better.

That means that you can indoctrinate your students with Islam without any fear. Might I suggest that you do this just after your Homosexuality Experimentation lab course and just prior to saying your end-of-day prayers to Obama.

Does this mean you are a "homophobe" too?

Looks like all that fight against the Christians was for nothing since one culture can be taught then so can the other culture. Looks like the children educational criteria are up for grabs to the best or worst contender as it may be.