What I love about the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob

[JenT]

There isn't one, which I'm sure will come as no huge surprise. Trolls these days.

Here is what she is hysterical over.

Appeal on school's lesson in Muslim culture is rejected

Thank you Ravi. But hysterical? The only time I can remember being hysterical is when my 4 year old went missing and I was told he was at "Skinner's house" by a 5 year old. Skinner turned out to be a puppy.

But thanks for the backup. Maybe it doesn't matter to YOU that our kids are told to recite by heart the very words that the terrorists repeat before they behead our troops, but since I believe God when He said not to know other gods, and since public schools can tell our kids to praise Allah on their hands and knees, stating that Allah is the only god they serve and none other is worthy, BY HEART, when the word "Christmas" is treated like a dirty word, well I kind of have an objection.

If you don't, (shrug) fine.

Just because some terrorists say "God is great" it doesn't follow that anyone that says it is a terrorist.

Regardless, you lied about the law.

Sure Ravi. Just like I'd be lying about there being grapes in a bottle of wine because you can't see it.

I think what you're missing is the definition of "law". Roe v. Wade changed the laws in the same way.

 

[JenT]

JenT, Please show me the verse were God said "no" to recognizing Ishmael?

Thank You

WHY is everybody telling me to go back and search old posts for them? ITS THERE.

Simple

When you post misinformation

You will be challenged to back up your false claims


You said: " Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

What chapter and verse can this be found JenT??

18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!”
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

Genesis 17

I repeat, all Muslims and Gentiles are offered adoption through Jesus Christ, but the inheritance prior to Christ belonged to the Jews.

And now I am so out of time, be back later.

 

[Sunni Man]

WHY is everybody telling me to go back and search old posts for them? ITS THERE.

Simple

When you post misinformation

You will be challenged to back up your false claims


You said: " Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

What chapter and verse can this be found JenT??

18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!”
19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.” 22 Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

So God "DID" recognize Ishmael and made him a great nation and blessed him exceedingly!!!

 

[Sunni Man]

WHY is everybody telling me to go back and search old posts for them? ITS THERE.

Simple

When you post misinformation

You will be challenged to back up your false claims


You said: " Abraham pleaded God would recognize Ishmael and God said "no".

What chapter and verse can this be found JenT??

I repeat, all Muslims and Gentiles are offered adoption through Jesus Christ, but the inheritance prior to Christ belonged to the Jews.

To be technically correct JenT.

In the Bible there are only two groups of people.

Jews and Gentiles

Muslims would be lumped in with the you and all of the other Gentiles.

 

[RodISHI]

Teaching about other cultures is common in schools and is not equal to teaching children to believe in a religion

Since that is the case there should be no problem in teaching the culture of the early Christians, Jewish traditions, about the Hebrews, Buddhist, Hindus and even Pagans currently living throughout the world. It is obvious that most do not understand or have a very good history on all of these religions even though many claim to be a part of these religions. I found it very enlightening to hear a dear Jewish friend tell a group of Christians about her culture, traditions and such. A dear Chinese friend used to tell me tidbits about her culture that I would have never learned in a school. Why not let children learn about all cultures if they so desire to?

 

[JBeukema]

Teaching about other cultures is common in schools and is not equal to teaching children to believe in a religion

Since that is the case there should be no problem in teaching the culture of the early Christians, Jewish traditions, about the Hebrews, Buddhist, Hindus and even Pagans currently living throughout the world.

Whenever someone tries, the christians cry 'discrimination'; apparently, they hate when it';s pointed out that Abaraham was no different that Muhammed

 

[RodISHI]

Teaching about other cultures is common in schools and is not equal to teaching children to believe in a religion

Since that is the case there should be no problem in teaching the culture of the early Christians, Jewish traditions, about the Hebrews, Buddhist, Hindus and even Pagans currently living throughout the world.

Whenever someone tries, the christians cry 'discrimination'; apparently, they hate when it';s pointed out that Abaraham was no different that Muhammed

Here I thought it was the antichrist that screamed when Christians come in to teach about the history of the religion.

 

[JBeukema]

teaching culture and history =/= teaching religion


'you will go to hell if you do not acceot christ, and god gave us this land, so convert or die' =/= 'their belief in their god led them to conquer Canan, committing genocide and killing men, women, and children in order to wipe out all other tribes
'

The first is lis and indoctrination. the latter is history suitable for High School

 

[random3434]

Islam in California Schools-Truth! and Fiction!

Peggy Green, the Superintendent of the Byron Union School district says that the school is merely reflecting the California guidelines for seventh grade and that the students are learning about Islam in the same way that they learn about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and other major religions. She says that individual teachers will augment the curriculum with various activities and games, including dressing-up and role playing, in order to stimulate class discussion. Green did not specifically say whether there had been prayers to Allah or any other devotional activities encouraged by the teacher at Byron. Green says she and her staff have been fielding calls and other messages to the school about the controversy, many of which have been malignant and threatening.

 

[RodISHI]

teaching culture and history =/= teaching religion


'you will go to hell if you do not acceot christ, and god gave us this land, so convert or die' =/= 'their belief in their god led them to conquer Canan, committing genocide and killing men, women, and children in order to wipe out all other tribes
'

The first is lis and indoctrination. the latter is history suitable for High School

Actually that killing humans part is an error on the part of many. "Thou shalt not kill", means thou shalt not kill. When one reads through about the wars and such one should be looking at the meanings to these words, Cannanites, Sodomites, Moabites, Zamzummims, Ammonites, Philistines, Agagites, Oznites, Erites and so on and so forth are all spirits. If one cannot understand that one really should not be making up some false religious beliefs in order to slam something that they cannot or do not understand. It goes right back to what I tried to explain to you previously, this is the history of the heavens and the earth in the day it was created. Genesis - Chapter 2-4 Heaven being the spiritual realm and Earth being the flesh realm. The flesh is made subject to all of the spirits. The flesh is secondary. Again, the Bible defines Hell as separation from God. God is a spirit.

 

[JBeukema]

teaching culture and history =/= teaching religion


'you will go to hell if you do not acceot christ, and god gave us this land, so convert or die' =/= 'their belief in their god led them to conquer Canan, committing genocide and killing men, women, and children in order to wipe out all other tribes
'

The first is lis and indoctrination. the latter is history suitable for High School

Actually that killing humans part is an error on the part of many. "Thou shalt not kill", means thou shalt not kill.

right... which is why it orders the death penalty for a number of 'crimes' and orders that the other tribes' children be 'dashed upon the rocks'

When one reads through about the wars and such one should be looking at the meanings to these words, Cannanites, Sodomites, Moabites, Zamzummims, Ammonites, Philistines, Agagites, Oznites, Erites and so on and so forth are all spirits.

Incorrect. They are the names of other tribes, many of which have been confirmed to exist by independent (non-religious) archeologists and historians

 

[RodISHI]

teaching culture and history =/= teaching religion


'you will go to hell if you do not acceot christ, and god gave us this land, so convert or die' =/= 'their belief in their god led them to conquer Canan, committing genocide and killing men, women, and children in order to wipe out all other tribes
'

The first is lis and indoctrination. the latter is history suitable for High School

Actually that killing humans part is an error on the part of many. "Thou shalt not kill", means thou shalt not kill.

right... which is why it orders the death penalty for a number of 'crimes' and orders that the other tribes' children be 'dashed upon the rocks'

When one reads through about the wars and such one should be looking at the meanings to these words, Cannanites, Sodomites, Moabites, Zamzummims, Ammonites, Philistines, Agagites, Oznites, Erites and so on and so forth are all spirits.

Incorrect. They are the names of other tribes, many of which have been confirmed to exist by independent (non-religious) archeologists and historians

You still are insisting on claiming a right to know when in fact you also claim to be a non believer. It still comes down to you are making up your own conclusions about what others believe in their religion and customs. Therefore you really only assume and make up accusations. All you have JB is a theology of non belief, theory.

 

[JBeukema]

You still are insisting on claiming a right to know

'right to know'?

It still comes down to you are making up your own conclusions about what others believe in their religion and customs.

Incorrect. I state what it says in the Torah and the Nicene Collection/King's Holy Library that the vast majority of neochristians cite.

Therefore you really only assume and make up accusations

Incorrect. I know more about the bible than most of the idiots who wave it around- including you, evidently.

All you have JB is a theology of non belief, theory.

You're pathetic. Here, have a loli

 

[RodISHI]

Incorrect. I know more about the bible than most of the idiots who wave it around- including you, evidently.

Yet you know nothing about the spirit or heavenly beings. I highly doubt you know more about the Bible when you keep insisting on misrepresenting it.

 

[JBeukema]

of the idiots who wave it around- including you, evidently.

Yet you know nothing about the spirit or heavenly beings[/quote]

Demonstrate that they exist, and then feel free to 'enlighten' us

 

[JenT]

Hi JenT, I made some comments about the link you provided back on page 6 of this thread. There's been plenty of discussion and I imagine it got lost in the din

Montrovant, I'm so sorry it's taken so long to get to your thread.

I read the document and it did not, that I saw, say anything about students being made to bow or kneel and recite Muslim prayer. If I missed something and you'd be willing to point out where it did, I would appreciate it.

Here is a link to the story of Samantha Eklund, one of many kids who went through the Islam Curriculum. Introduction to BlessedCause There are also links there to the actual simulation.

You seem to be speaking about Islam as an authority. Is there no space for different sect or interpretations within the religion, as there is in Christianity?

Space? There are details about the Bible that Christians vary widely on, for instance water baptism or speaking in tongues, etc. But the details aren't as important IMO compared to the foundation being Jesus Christ, and on the fundamentals on that we all pretty much agree.

If Muslims disagree between the details (and I know they do, Sunni and Shiite beliefs alone differ) I don't know that it matters. But what concerns me is the blatant dissing of Judeo-Christian beliefs while holding Islam up as the right one, in fact if you read the quotes you see it's written as though Islam beliefs are facts, not "what they believe." Do American teachers want kids to convert? Of course not! Not most teachers. But if you study all the facts it's rather obvious Clinton's administration negotiated with "terrorists" even drafting the religious guidelines in public schools with a man now in prison for terrorist activities. I think "peace" was negotiated by promises of allowing Islam indoctrination curriculum in (reciting that prayer is all it takes to be Muslim) and lo and behold American kids are on their hands and knees doing it "as simulation".

I keep thinking of Joseph as a slave refusing to bow to other gods, or Daniel...they could have just said, "I'm bowing down but I'm not really believing" but they wouldn't. By what right does our government mandate that this is acceptable practices in public schools? Not even slaves were required to do what our kids are being required to do. Where is religious freedom?

I feel pretty sure JB could spend plenty of time telling you why you are wrong in your beliefs about the Bible and Christianity (he seems to have a penchant for doing that on this board ) but I doubt you would agree with his take.

I haven't seen him say a whole lot so far.

I don't want to speak for Kalam, or even try to tell you your reading of Islam is wrong, but I imagine that what you consider to be truths concerning the religion may simply be a different interpretation than his.

You make sense. After all, Muhammed learned the Scriptures then repeated them elsewhere. Names, events, dates were all mixed up but he tried to base it on Christian and Jewish beliefs since he tried to convince us he was a prophet. What bothers me, though, is when it is written that everyone must belief their version rather than the original, and to kill those that do not believe in Allah. And that "interpretation" has been slaughtering my Christian brothers and sisters worldwide for centuries. And even as our troops are beheaded with prayers to Allah, teachers have asked our kids to get on their hands and knees and praise their god as the only god worthy of worship.

Am I REALLY the only one that sees a problem with this? Or are libs so blinded by hatred of Christians or conservatives that they'll just jump on the bandwagon and criticize Christians?

That's fine. But when you live the reality of a predominantly Muslim nation, maybe then the freedom that has been wrought through Judeo-Christian principles will be appreciated. It will be too late but at least libs will know what you threw away. Sort of a miniature version of what happens on broader scales.

I don't have any religious beliefs; I'm certainly not attempting to promote any one religion as right. In my eyes they are all wrong I have simply seen and been involved in enough religious debates to realize that even the seemingly obvious can be open to many interpretations depending on who is doing the reading. That's true in any situation, but especially so with religion.

I know what you're saying. I've seen a lot of heated arguments over the most trivial stuff. But I believe God has different callings for different people and has equipped us with different gifts. And sometimes His calling is so DEAFENING that we as Christians can't understand why nobody else is hearing it. But He has different purposes for each one of us. He might call me to one thing and my best friend to encourage somebody else. It all works though, except for our own blindness that He doesn't show us all the same things at the same time.

Thanks for your post and again, sorry it took so long for me to get to it

 

[RodISHI]

of the idiots who wave it around- including you, evidently.

Yet you know nothing about the spirit or heavenly beings

Demonstrate that they exist, and then feel free to 'enlighten' us

All in God's time, JB. Until then you can keep on believing what you believing what you do not believe and I will hold tight to what I have been given and believe to be truth.

Tell me JB do you recall those dreams about falling in the night?

 

[JenT]

OK, I see that you would rather obfuscate than answer...

Let's try this...how many creators are there?

I suggest you educate yourself on WHY the evangelical right became politically active. It had nothing to do with Roe v. Wade; they really had no problem with that ruling.It was because the IRS went after Robert Jones University over their racial discrimination.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! you BLATENTLY try to put forth facts you have NO clue what you're talking about, it doesn't hold up for a second and suddenly my response (which nailed your accusation to the wall) is obfuscating???

face it! God IS that He IS and He died that we could be reconciled to Him! How many obstacles are you gonna run and try to collect to escape that?

WOW...You are confused...YOUR obfuscation is to MY question, which you refuse to answer: how many creators are there?

Here are some TRUTHS about the Bible...it is the word of MAN; sinners. The clouds did not open up and the Bible did not fall to earth...it was not written by the hand of God. It is interpretations of God's words and actions. It contains written word to support or deny almost any position...abortion is just one of them...You can scream, shout, laugh and show all the incredulity you want; BUT, the debate over the meaning of Numbers 5 and numerous other passages is not over, it will continue to go on just as it HAS gone on...

Now please answer my question... how many creators are there?

BF, did you miss the answer? Seems to happen a lot around here, please pay attention, I'm spending more time digging up previously posted answers than I am writing them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1319766-post118.html

 

[JenT]

Teaching about other cultures is common in schools and is not equal to teaching children to believe in a religion

Really? Are you an atheist JB? I would think atheists would object to their child being required to fast to another god or to repeat this prayer by heart on their hands and knees:

• 
  "In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of Creation, The Compassionate, the Merciful, King of Judgment day! You alone we worship, and to You alone we pray for help, Guide us to the straight path."

So like, if you had a kid would you mind if a Christian teacher led the class in communion, told them to pray to God and eat the bread and drink the wine?

I think just about everyone knows what would happen if a teacher did.

 

[Kalam]

reciting that prayer is all it takes to be Muslim

To be a Muslim one must fully understand the meaning of the shahada and believe in it wholeheartedly. The words themselves mean nothing if they're recited emptily.

You make sense. After all, Muhammed learned the Scriptures then repeated them elsewhere. Names, events, dates were all mixed up but he tried to base it on Christian and Jewish beliefs since he tried to convince us he was a prophet.

Muhammad was illiterate and would not have had the opportunity to study Judeo-Christian scripture in death. The names in the Qur'an are the same used in Arabic Bibles, no dates are really mentioned, and the events described either mirrored the accounts presented in the Bible or purposefully contradicted them. Accusing Muhammad of plagiarizing the Bible is dishonest and ignorant; the books are nothing alike.

What bothers me, though, is when it is written that everyone must belief their version rather than the original, and to kill those that do not believe in Allah. And that "interpretation" has been slaughtering my Christian brothers and sisters worldwide for centuries.

Practices that, of course, violate the spirit of the Qur'an and the tenets of Islam.

That's fine. But when you live the reality of a predominantly Muslim nation, maybe then the freedom that has been wrought through Judeo-Christian principles will be appreciated.

Judeo-Christian principles like freedom of the press and speech?

Our constitution is the product of enlightenment era secularist philosophy, not religious scripture.