What happens after?

[The Irish Ram]

If you believe in a hereafter, what do you do once you get there?

Well, if you're a Democrat, you continue to vote.

The constitution does not say anything about the dead not being permitted to exercise their right to vote.

They swung Ohio in the last election!

 

[Iridescence]

a whole lot of after !

llove your avie.... no doubt about it...

 

[Dragon]

Believing what you say may not make it a lie in your eyes, but it can still be an "untruth".
So, I'm sorry, but I have to amicably disagree.

He didn't say it was an "untruth," he said a lie. And it's not just in my eyes, that's what the word means. To tell a lie is not merely to say something that isn't true. It's to say something that you KNOW isn't true. And that's not what I'm doing.

If the knowledge of God can't be expressed in human language, then Christ should have been born mute.

No, that doesn't follow. What does follow is that he, like all other enlightened spiritual teachers, would be aware of this and teach in metaphor -- or parables.

Did he?

He wouldn't have bothered sending his disciples out to start churches.

He didn't.

In fact, He says over and over, "Let he who has ear, hear......", and, "my sheep know my voice".

Yes, exactly. And for ages, Christians have misunderstood that. What he meant was exactly what I was saying: that the understanding of God is only found within, and there is no way to convey it directly in words from one who has found it (as Jesus had) to others that have not. To "have an ear" means to have a heart open to the Spirit that alone grants understanding. It was an acknowledgment that, for many, his words would not be understood. And of course, he was right.

Dogma is a fracturing of Christ's Church over disagreements in protocol and/or divisions concerning the interpretation of God's word. Which is why the very thing they're fighting over is a practice that God tells us to avoid. Don't interpret, add to, or take away, from the Word of God.

It's impossible not to. In fact, when you say that, you imply that your own interpretation is the one to be used, and not to be questioned.

I disagree about your definition of dogma. Until it became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the church WAS fragmented. After the Protestant Reformation and especially after the institution of religious liberty, it became fragmented again. Fragmentation means freedom, and it is only in a context of freedom that the heart can open to the presence of the divine, from which alone comes understanding.

Here is the secret: ALL teachings about the nature of God, taken at face value, are false. Their value, if any, lies in their mythical/allegorical/metaphorical meaning, and the response they engender in the heart. You cannot simply TELL someone the truths of the divine, but sometimes by telling a story, painting a picture, composing uplifting music, or merely by the contagion of presence, you can trigger in the person the state of consciousness that lets them find out for themselves -- which is the only way anyone ever knows.

It's easier to remember and understand that if many different competing views exist than if only one authoritative view does.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I feel lonely being one of few here who knows the real truth.

You don't. You believe, regardless of evidence -- completely lacking evidence, in fact -- because you are told to believe. That is not knowledge.

Your lies are just that,

No, I believe what I'm saying. That means, even if I'm wrong, it's not a lie.

Knowledge of God cannot be expressed in human language. It is found in the heart, and only in a state of deep humility and self-forgetfulness. Spiritual pride and arrogance shuts out the divine presence. And proxy arrogance, pride in one's spiritual group, is still arrogance.

Dogma is crafted to keep people from knowing God, because awareness of the divine is always radical, revolutionary, and disruptive of authority and order. It turns the world upside down, and religious authorities, like all other kinds, don't like that.

Only heretics can ever know God. Heresy is, to be sure, no guarantee of such awareness. But orthodoxy is a guarantee of its absence.

Believing a lie still means it is a lie, stupid to think otherwise. I believe not because I was told to believe. I believe because I have weighed the Bible against other thoughts and false religions and cults and the Bible makes the most sense. Satan is the father of all lies and he has fooled a lot of people, look in a mirror.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Believing what you say may not make it a lie in your eyes, but it can still be an "untruth".
So, I'm sorry, but I have to amicably disagree.

He didn't say it was an "untruth," he said a lie. And it's not just in my eyes, that's what the word means. To tell a lie is not merely to say something that isn't true. It's to say something that you KNOW isn't true. And that's not what I'm doing.

If the knowledge of God can't be expressed in human language, then Christ should have been born mute.

No, that doesn't follow. What does follow is that he, like all other enlightened spiritual teachers, would be aware of this and teach in metaphor -- or parables.

Did he?



He didn't.

In fact, He says over and over, "Let he who has ear, hear......", and, "my sheep know my voice".

Yes, exactly. And for ages, Christians have misunderstood that. What he meant was exactly what I was saying: that the understanding of God is only found within, and there is no way to convey it directly in words from one who has found it (as Jesus had) to others that have not. To "have an ear" means to have a heart open to the Spirit that alone grants understanding. It was an acknowledgment that, for many, his words would not be understood. And of course, he was right.

Dogma is a fracturing of Christ's Church over disagreements in protocol and/or divisions concerning the interpretation of God's word. Which is why the very thing they're fighting over is a practice that God tells us to avoid. Don't interpret, add to, or take away, from the Word of God.

It's impossible not to. In fact, when you say that, you imply that your own interpretation is the one to be used, and not to be questioned.

I disagree about your definition of dogma. Until it became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the church WAS fragmented. After the Protestant Reformation and especially after the institution of religious liberty, it became fragmented again. Fragmentation means freedom, and it is only in a context of freedom that the heart can open to the presence of the divine, from which alone comes understanding.

Here is the secret: ALL teachings about the nature of God, taken at face value, are false. Their value, if any, lies in their mythical/allegorical/metaphorical meaning, and the response they engender in the heart. You cannot simply TELL someone the truths of the divine, but sometimes by telling a story, painting a picture, composing uplifting music, or merely by the contagion of presence, you can trigger in the person the state of consciousness that lets them find out for themselves -- which is the only way anyone ever knows.

It's easier to remember and understand that if many different competing views exist than if only one authoritative view does.

Still, you are wrong.

 

[Sunni Man]

Believing a lie still means it is a lie, stupid to think otherwise. I believe not because I was told to believe. I believe because I have weighed the Bible against other thoughts and false religions and cults and the Bible makes the most sense. Satan is the father of all lies and he has fooled a lot of people, look in a mirror.

One thing I have noticed about you AmericanLooser.

For a self proclaimed Christian you sure talk about your father Satan a whole lot more than you mention Jesus or God.

 

[The Irish Ram]

We tend to over think things.
Having ears, Jesus was aware of what they were for. He used his voice to EXPLAIN to people who our Father is, and what He expects from HIS children. You have to hear it before you can embrace it. That's why Jesus talked so much.
Fragment means brake into pieces. It does not mean freedom. It didn't make Luther free when he broke away from the Catholic religion, it made him a different captive.

All teachings about the nature of God, taken at face value are NOT false. To say they are, would mean the teachings of Jesus are false, unless we accept them in our hearts. The teachings are true no matter what we decide to do with them. When Christ said that the nature of God can't abide sin, you can take that at face value, because that is how it was meant to be taken. You don't have to heart it to understand it. Hearting the teachings is the ultimate goal, but not necessary to render the teaching true. You are confusing facts with faith.
We hear about Him with our ears, we accept Him with our hearts. In fact, there was a man that heard what Christ said, and started to work miracles with the information he heard. But, when he cried Lord, Lord, Jesus told him to depart, because he never "knew" Jesus. He never accepted Christ in his heart but took Christ's word at face value, and worked miracles on hearing alone. But it got him nowhere without the heart part. That man heard with his ears but never took the words to heart. Hearing and accepting are two different actions.
You are so right about needing the heart. It makes the truth empty.

 

[Dragon]

Believing a lie still means it is a lie

It means I am not lying.

I believe not because I was told to believe. I believe because I have weighed the Bible against other thoughts and false religions and cults and the Bible makes the most sense. Satan is the father of all lies and he has fooled a lot of people, look in a mirror.

Sorry, I don't believe you have weighed the Bible dispassionately or rationally against other religions. If you had, you would be able to come up with reasons for your beliefs beyond bald assertions that everyone else is lying.

No, you believe this because you have been told to believe it, and promised rewards if you do, and threatened with punishment if you don't. And that is the only argument you have ever presented here, as well: "Believe this or you will go to Hell."

I not only will not, but in fact cannot comply. I could perhaps pretend to believe something under threat. But I can actually believe only what seems likely to be true, and your belief system emphatically does not.

 

[Dragon]

We tend to over think things.
Having ears, Jesus was aware of what they were for.

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people listening to his sermons and stories were not deaf. Hence, he did not mean that business about having ears literally. Like most of what he said, it was a metaphor, and the most obvious meaning of "having an ear" is "being able to understand." Which most people could not -- and still can't.

 

[The Irish Ram]

We tend to over think things.
Having ears, Jesus was aware of what they were for.

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people listening to his sermons and stories were not deaf. Hence, he did not mean that business about having ears literally. Like most of what he said, it was a metaphor, and the most obvious meaning of "having an ear" is "being able to understand." Which most people could not -- and still can't.

Well, you and I will just have to partially disagree on this one. What he said was said straight forward because he had to make sure we DID understand it. It was a matter of eternal life or death.
For example, Jesus wasn't a farmer, but for those who farmed he equated his message to farming, sowing seed, harvests. He bent over backwards to make sure we "got it." If there was something that his disciples didn't understand, he explained it further. His human language had to be understood, or his message was lost. And the message had to be heard by everyone there. It was the decision of those hearing Him to take it to heart or not. But that decision didn't change the validity of what Jesus said.

Some of what He said WAS for the believer, only. Those that were tuned in. Some was for the Jewish community whether they were tuned in or not, some for the Romans, some for specific people, some for all of humanity, but it wasn't false because of those who didn't take it to heart.

 

[Obamerican]

Believing a lie still means it is a lie, stupid to think otherwise. I believe not because I was told to believe. I believe because I have weighed the Bible against other thoughts and false religions and cults and the Bible makes the most sense. Satan is the father of all lies and he has fooled a lot of people, look in a mirror.

One thing I have noticed about you AmericanLooser.

For a self proclaimed Christian you sure talk about your father Satan a whole lot more than you mention Jesus or God.

Nothing entertains me more than an Evangelical Christian arguing with a Muslim. Better than watching Sponge Bob Squarepants.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Have you ever pondered the question of life after death, if Sponge Bob wasn't on, or it was like preempted or something?

 

[Iridescence]

We tend to over think things.
Having ears, Jesus was aware of what they were for.

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people listening to his sermons and stories were not deaf. Hence, he did not mean that business about having ears literally. Like most of what he said, it was a metaphor, and the most obvious meaning of "having an ear" is "being able to understand." Which most people could not -- and still can't.

Very well put. For the most part, it seems many are still unequipped in many ways to see, hear, and understand. This is, perhaps, why accountability is so difficult to be determined and true judgement is reserved for God. As we 'feel' our way through things... many of us must remain more silent than not, not because we are stupid, necessarily, but because there are works being done in which we sometimes recognize as the hand of God. It does not mean we are comfortably numb, however, as sometimes WE, in hearing, seeing, and understanding... (however limited, accordingly) are in the hot seat likened to hell, or so well identify with those in which we understand to be that we put ourselves with them.

 

[Barb]

If you believe in a hereafter, what do you do once you get there?

I like to think that as we die in this life, we're pushing our new head through a vag into the next. Endless possibilities.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hopefully, hang out with some very old freinds that I haven't seen during this life time and swap some stories, share what I learned, learn things from them and possibly prepare for my next reincarnation.

If no reincarnation, then I live in a place where only good spirits are.

well, here's hoping.

 

[Two Thumbs]

It's gonna be soo nice.

Just me and my 72 virgins..............Oh yea

Where did they come from?
What do you do with them?
And what do women get?

 

[Iridescence]

One day it may come to US that it is very well the unknown in which will be our greatest comforts. It may be that being 'informed' will only provoke more respect and awe toward the 'uninformed'. Must we forever seek perfection?

 

[Two Thumbs]

One day it may come to US that it is very well the unknown in which will be our greatest comforts. It may be that being 'informed' will only provoke more respect and awe toward the 'uninformed'. Must we forever seek perfection?

What?



probably not, but how do you grow w/o trying?

 

[Iridescence]

.................

 

[Two Thumbs]

.................

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