What Fed the Perception that Zimmerman Was a Racist?

[catzmeow]

What fed the perception that Zimmerman was racist?

Two words: Confirmation bias.

Zimmerman's exact affliction.

Are you suggesting that Zimmerman stereotyped Martin based upon his race? Isn't that racism?


Two thoughts...first, you cannot possibly speak knowledgeably to Zimmerman's motive. You weren't there, and you lack ESP powers. Thus, you're speculating irresponsibily about information you don't have.

Second, do you really want to go down this path again?

 

[manifold]

The disconcerting part for me is the fact that whether he said punks or coons has no direct bearing on what actually happened. It concerns me that if he'd actually used a racial slur, that would seemingly be enough to convict him for murder.

 

[Ravi]

Two words: Confirmation bias.

Zimmerman's exact affliction.

Are you suggesting that Zimmerman stereotyped Martin based upon his race? Isn't that racism?


Two thoughts...first, you cannot possibly speak knowledgeably to Zimmerman's motive. You weren't there, and you lack ESP powers. Thus, you're speculating irresponsibily about information you don't have.

Second, do you really want to go down this path again?

Of course I'm speculating as is everyone else that discusses this case.

And no, confirmation bias is not the same thing as racism.

 

[catzmeow]

The minute a man named George Zimmerman shot an unarmed young black man the narrative was set as far as the media was concerned.

Your post is inaccurate.

Here's a timeline, for your assistance, using the Miami Herald (Trayvon's home newspaper--he's from Miami Gardens and was only visiting Sanford).

February 26: Trayvon Martin is killed in Sanford, Florida

March 2: Miami Herald covers the story. No mention of the incident as a racially-motivated crime or of Zimmerman's race.

Miami teen shot dead while visiting family in Central Florida - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

March 9: More than 2 weeks after the crime, when no charges have been filed, and a week after Homicide Detective Chris Serino has filed an affadavit protesting the lack of charges, Martin's family retains an attorney (Benjamin Crump), who holds a press conference in Sanford, asking for answers and LAW ENFORCEMENT/PROSECUTORIAL ACTION in the case. No mention is made of Zimmerman's race/ethnicity.

Shooting mystery: Miami-Dade teen killed by a crime watch captain - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

March 11: Another press conference, this time Martin's mother speaks. Trayvon Martin's mother expresses concerns that Zimmerman was motivated by race. However, stonewalling by Sanford PD, false information about zimmerman that came from the PD, and the PD's failure to pursue the investigation are the primary frustrations:

The Martin family’s frustration with Sanford police extends beyond the 911 tapes — the family also says Sanford police misleadingly told them Zimmerman had a clean criminal history.

In fact, Orange County court records show Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for resisting an officer with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer. The charges were later dropped.

“I had a detective look at me in the eye; tell me he is a dad, that he is in pain and that he would bring us justice,” said the teen’s father, Tracy Martin. “He started off on the wrong foot. He lied.”

Family of teen killed by neighborhood watch captain calls for answers - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

March 13: Miami Herald editorial says that the Martin family deserves answers:
Unarmed teen’s killing in Sanford deserves answers - Fabiola Santiago - MiamiHerald.com

The primary concern of the author is uncharacteristic stonewalling on the part of Stanford PD:

At first police took Zimmerman into custody, but released him saying they had no evidence to charge him with a crime. Under Florida law, a person can use deadly force to defend himself or herself. But many questions remain whether Zimmerman was in jeopardy when he shot Martin.

The Sanford Police Department has refused to release the 911 tapes and the Martin family has hired an attorney and filed a public records lawsuit to get the recordings.

Why the hesitation to make public calls that are routinely released by police to the media?

March 14: A television evangelist in Sanford holds a large rally:
Televangelist vows to ‘shut down Florida’ in the killing of Miami-Dade teen - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
The newspaper rticle actually downplays the issue of racial profiling:

Zimmerman claimed self defense and has not been arrested. The case was referred this week to the state attorney’s office in Sanford for review. Police Chief Bill Lee said there was no probable cause for an arrest.

Because the boy is black and Zimmerman is widely believed to be white, the teen’s family and many activists believe Trayvon was racially profiled. However, Zimmerman is Hispanic.

March 15: Martin's family is interviewed on-camera, and the video footage is uploaded to multiple media outlets in Miami, including the Herald.

Video | MiamiHerald.com
Video | MiamiHerald.com
Video | MiamiHerald.com


Conclusion: The timeline of reporting makes it quite clear that the allegation of race as a motive started with the family's attorney (Benjamin Crump) and the family's frustration at the lack of action by the PD. Crump is the person who reached out to Florida's statewide black ministerial alliance, the NAACP, and other black advocacy groups. Crump's website has a dated listing of developments in the case, and his initial involvement with it:

http://parkscrump.com/updates/

I've focused on the Miami Herald because it is Trayvon Martin's hometown newspaper, and Miami was the location of the initial press conferences because that is where Trayvon Martin's mother (who retained legal counsel) resides.

You could probably research this same timeline with other media outlets, as well, but I suspect they'd be similar.

 

[catzmeow]

Zimmerman's exact affliction.

Are you suggesting that Zimmerman stereotyped Martin based upon his race? Isn't that racism?


Two thoughts...first, you cannot possibly speak knowledgeably to Zimmerman's motive. You weren't there, and you lack ESP powers. Thus, you're speculating irresponsibily about information you don't have.

Second, do you really want to go down this path again?

Of course I'm speculating as is everyone else that discusses this case.

And no, confirmation bias is not the same thing as racism.

When the confirmation bias is motivated by race, yes, it's the same as racism.

 

[catzmeow]

The disconcerting part for me is the fact that whether he said punks or coons has no direct bearing on what actually happened. It concerns me that if he'd actually used a racial slur, that would seemingly be enough to convict him for murder.

No. It wouldn't even be enough to make it a racially-motivated crime. A person can use a derogatory racial slur WITHOUT race being the primary motive in a crime. It's just one piece of evidence in a stack of evidence that can probably fill a dumpster at this point in time.

If Zimmerman referred to Martin as a "fucking coon," that would evidence that he was motivated to profile Martin as a suspicious person on the basis of his race, but it isn't evidence that he killed him. There is a ton of evidence that has not been released (GSR, blood splatter, autopsy findings, interviews with Martin and other witnesses) that would be required to make any kind of meaningful determination about Zimmerman's guilt in Martin's death.

In short, no one at this point in time that is not directly involved with the case knows WHY Zimmerman allegedly killed Martin. Or, for that matter, if Martin's death occurred as the result of intentional action on Zimmerman's part, accidental action by Zimmerman, or was simply George Zimmerman defending himself.

People who claim otherwise are fucking morons with a partisan axe to grind.

And no, Ravi, not everyone is speculating about this crap. I can think of two people on the board who have consistently refused to speculate: Liability hasn't, and neither have I.

 

[manifold]

The disconcerting part for me is the fact that whether he said punks or coons has no direct bearing on what actually happened. It concerns me that if he'd actually used a racial slur, that would seemingly be enough to convict him for murder.

No. It wouldn't even be enough to make it a racially-motivated crime. A person can use a derogatory racial slur WITHOUT race being the primary motive in a crime. It's just one piece of evidence in a stack of evidence that can probably fill a dumpster at this point in time.

If Zimmerman referred to Martin as a "fucking coon," that would evidence that he was motivated to profile Martin as a suspicious person on the basis of his race, but it isn't evidence that he killed him. There is a ton of evidence that has not been released (GSR, blood splatter, autopsy findings, interviews with Martin and other witnesses) that would be required to make any kind of meaningful determination about Zimmerman's guilt in Martin's death.

In short, no one at this point in time that is not directly involved with the case knows WHY Zimmerman allegedly killed Martin. Or, for that matter, if Martin's death occurred as the result of intentional action on Zimmerman's part, accidental action by Zimmerman, or was simply George Zimmerman defending himself.

People who claim otherwise are fucking morons with a partisan axe to grind.

And no, Ravi, not everyone is speculating about this crap. I can think of two people on the board who have consistently refused to speculate: Liability hasn't, and neither have I.

I agree with you, however I'm not above speculating at this point. I initially reserved judgment on the basis of not knowing a damn thing. But based on the few facts that have been subsequently released, I'm leaning heavily toward justifiable self-defense. I also reserve the right to change my mind based on any new evidence that might come to light.

 

[catzmeow]

I agree with you, however I'm not above speculating at this point. I initially reserved judgment on the basis of not knowing a damn thing. But based on the few facts that have been subsequently released, I'm leaning heavily toward justifiable self-defense. I also reserve the right to change my mind based on any new evidence that might come to light.

I'm okay with saying that, at this point, I have no idea what happened, and probably won't for several months. And, neither do you.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Because a black person didnt get killed by another black, that's ok, but anyone else that does it, it's racist.

I hate to agree with this - but it is 100% accurate.
If Zimmerman was black, this story would have never reached beyond the local newspaper - PERIOD.

Of course not. If Zimmerman was black, he would have been arrested that night.

That is probably also true, but for different reasons than what you are thinking.
Zimmerman would have already been arrested if it wasn't for the media fury and so the Governor appointed a special prosecutor to make sure nothing f*cked up because of national attention. So if the media wasn't so hell bent in dramatizing the event - Zimmerman would have been arrested well before he was. (IMO)

 

[manifold]

I agree with you, however I'm not above speculating at this point. I initially reserved judgment on the basis of not knowing a damn thing. But based on the few facts that have been subsequently released, I'm leaning heavily toward justifiable self-defense. I also reserve the right to change my mind based on any new evidence that might come to light.

I'm okay with saying that, at this point, I have no idea what happened, and probably won't for several months. And, neither do you.

It costs me nothing to speculate.

 

[catzmeow]

That is probably also true, but for different reasons than what you are thinking.
Zimmerman would have already been arrested if it wasn't for the media fury and so the Governor appointed a special prosecutor to make sure nothing f*cked up because of national attention. So if the media wasn't so hell bent in dramatizing the event - Zimmerman would have been arrested well before he was. (IMO)

Timeline of events that I posted above suggests otherwise.

 

[catzmeow]

It costs me nothing to speculate.

I've never enjoyed the taste of eating my own words. Paper gives me hairballs.

 

[Ravi]

I hate to agree with this - but it is 100% accurate.
If Zimmerman was black, this story would have never reached beyond the local newspaper - PERIOD.

Of course not. If Zimmerman was black, he would have been arrested that night.

That is probably also true, but for different reasons than what you are thinking.
Zimmerman would have already been arrested if it wasn't for the media fury and so the Governor appointed a special prosecutor to make sure nothing f*cked up because of national attention. So if the media wasn't so hell bent in dramatizing the event - Zimmerman would have been arrested well before he was. (IMO)

Possibly but it doesn't seem likely.

The police would have arrested Zimmerman if he was black simply because they fall for the same stereotypical biases that everyone else does. I doubt seriously they would have given a black man the benefit of a doubt. You see it all the time, cops arrest black people for crimes that they'll look the other way for if they involve other races.

 

[manifold]

It costs me nothing to speculate.

I've never enjoyed the taste of eating my own words. Paper gives me hairballs.

No guts no glory.

 

[catzmeow]

It costs me nothing to speculate.

I've never enjoyed the taste of eating my own words. Paper gives me hairballs.

No guts no glory.

No stupidity, no shame.

 

[manifold]

I've never enjoyed the taste of eating my own words. Paper gives me hairballs.

No guts no glory.

No stupidity, no shame.

No shame, period.

 

[Liability]

What Fed the Perception that Zimmerman Was a Racist?

Shit like the nonsense spewed by Ravi.

 

[Ravi]

What Fed the Perception that Zimmerman Was a Racist?

Shit like the nonsense spewed by Ravi.

I'm sure that me stating I don't think he was racist fed the perception that he was....you really have gone over the edge.

 

[Liability]

What Fed the Perception that Zimmerman Was a Racist?

Shit like the nonsense spewed by Ravi.

I'm sure that me stating I don't think he was racist fed the perception that he was....you really have gone over the edge.

You stating it NOW is all well and good.

But that's not what you were arguing before, you dishonest hack.

And, as you know, THAT was the point.

 

[Ravi]

What Fed the Perception that Zimmerman Was a Racist?

Shit like the nonsense spewed by Ravi.

I'm sure that me stating I don't think he was racist fed the perception that he was....you really have gone over the edge.

You stating it NOW is all well and good.

But that's not what you were arguing before, you dishonest hack.

And, as you know, THAT was the point.

Uh, no. I have never claimed Zimmerman was a racist.