Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[Meriweather]

At least atheists don't need to invent a god to have meaning and purpose in their lives.

Two questions:

How did you come to understand God is invented?
What observations have you made that those who do believe God make Him their only purpose?

 

[Meriweather]

How are you more moral than an atheist, when your morality hinges upon demanding eternal life from a deity?

Preparing for eternal life, in fact living that eternal life in the present, is not close to 'demanding'. Did you demand to be born? Do you know anyone who claims they demanded to be born?

 

[BreezeWood]

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

provide the tablets claimed by the murderer moses to be heavenly etched w/ 10 commandments or be yourself punished for using their lie by purposely including the heavens for your own nefarious pursuits.

 

[BreezeWood]

That really doesn't describe where the energy came from. Can you tell me about that?

the cyclical bb, matters conversion to energy through compaction at the moment of singularity reverses through conversion to reformulated expanding matter.

 

[Red Front]

Preparing for eternal life, in fact living that eternal life in the present, is not close to 'demanding'. Did you demand to be born? Do you know anyone who claims they demanded to be born?

Christians will go back to selling drugs or walking the streets as prostitutes if this life is all there is. Many Christians wouldn't go to church next Sunday if this life was all there is. Some would even become immoral, and destructive, back to what they were before they converted to the Christian religion. As an atheist, my morality isn't contingent upon "inheriting eternal life" or the existence of a personal deity.

 

[ding]

Christians will go back to selling drugs or walking the streets as prostitutes if this life is all there is. Many Christians wouldn't go to church next Sunday if this life was all there is. Some would even become immoral, and destructive, back to what they were before they converted to the Christian religion. As an atheist, my morality isn't contingent upon "inheriting eternal life" or the existence of a personal deity.

That's a textbook example of the dunning effect.

 

[Red Front]

Two questions:

How did you come to understand God is invented?
What observations have you made that those who do believe God make Him their only purpose?

The beliefs of Christians are based on a "holy book" full of contradictions and lies. It's just a bunch of mythology and even then Christians can't even agree on which brand of Christianity is true. There are over a billion Roman Catholic Christians (1.3 billion to be exact), about 900 million Protestants, and approximately 350 million Eastern Orthodox. Many of the Christians of these different traditions i.e. brands, will condemn the members of the other brand/"denomination", to hell. Denying that those "Christians" are actually Christians. They can't even agree among themselves, as to what type of Christianity the so-called "lost" should turn to for salvation. And if that wasn't enough, the vast majority of Jews reject Christianity.

It's all mythology. Is it possible that a personal GOD BEING exists? Maybe, but I just don't have enough information to come to that conclusion. I can't affirm or believe that there is a personal GOD ENTITY, until I get access to that information/evidence. If you ask me "Did president Biden eat a strawberry cheesecake today?", I would answer, "no". I have no reason to affirm or believe that he ate a strawberry cheesecake today. Is it possible that maybe, he ate some cheesecake today? Yeah, maybe he did, but I don't have enough information right now to lead me to conclude, affirm, or believe, that he did, hence I don't believe. I'm an "acheesecash"/atheist, when it comes to Biden eating cheesecake today.

You're telling me the Christian deity is real, but your evidence is horrible. Pathetic. Why should I believe this? Right now I'm an atheist, a person who doesn't affirm or believe in the existence of a GOD BEING or personal deity. However, I'm maybe 30% open to the possibility that there is a God. That GOD is EVERYTHING (pantheism), seems more likely to me that the Christian version of deity. That was Albert Einstein's belief. He was a deist and pantheist, appealing to the philosophy of Spinoza. Einstein stated that he believed in "Spinoza's God". Einstein didn't believe in life after death, and niether do I, but he did believe in God. I'm an atheist that leans towards Spinoza's God, but I don't affirm or believe that because I don't have enough evidence, hence I identify as an atheist.

 

[Meriweather]

Christians will go back to selling drugs or walking the streets as prostitutes if this life is all there is. Many Christians wouldn't go to church next Sunday if this life was all there is. Some would even become immoral, and destructive, back to what they were before they converted to the Christian religion. As an atheist, my morality isn't contingent upon "inheriting eternal life" or the existence of a personal deity.

I understand there are some of the smaller Christian denominations who focus a great deal on the afterlife.

People of faith (and this can be said especially those of Jewish faith) follow the commandments and traditions to enrich our present life. We are born into eternal life; we begin that eternity in the here and now. It is not something we wait to do until the next life.

 

[Red Front]

I understand there are some of the smaller Christian denominations who focus a great deal on the afterlife.

People of faith (and this can be said especially those of Jewish faith) follow the commandments and traditions to enrich our present life. We are born into eternal life; we begin that eternity in the here and now. It is not something we wait to do until the next life.

You speak as if you know that. How do you know that there is an afterlife? How do you know that the Christian deity is real? How did you come to the conclusion that the bible is the inerrant word of a GOD, when it is full of contradictions and ancient middle-eastern mythology?

 

[Meriweather]

As an atheist, my morality isn't contingent upon "inheriting eternal life" or the existence of a personal deity.

I understand about atheist morality. Many people of faith believe there is a divine spark in all; that God's law is written on the hearts of all. Personally, I would be shocked if atheists did not live up to what is in their own hearts. All of us (faith or no faith) are usually true to what is in our hearts.

 

[Meriweather]

The beliefs of Christians are based on a "holy book" full of contradictions and lies. It's just a bunch of mythology and even then Christians can't even agree on which brand of Christianity is true. There are over a billion Roman Catholic Christians (1.3 billion to be exact), about 900 million Protestants, and approximately 350 million Eastern Orthodox. Many of the Christians of these different traditions i.e. brands, will condemn the members of the other brand/"denomination", to hell. Denying that those "Christians" are actually Christians. They can't even agree among themselves, as to what type of Christianity the so-called "lost" should turn to for salvation. And if that wasn't enough, the vast majority of Jews reject Christianity.

The Bible takes years of study to understand. Often, what some will call a contradiction are not contradictory at all. You seem shocked that people have different perspectives.

 

[Meriweather]

Is it possible that a personal GOD BEING exists? Maybe, but I just don't have enough information to come to that conclusion.

"Seek and you will find," is a verse that comes from the Bible. Truth.

 

[Meriweather]

You're telling me the Christian deity is real, but your evidence is horrible.

Basic science lesson I teach to middle school students. Evidence requires physical matter that can be in some way measured.

It astounds me that atheists (many of who claim to be scientifically minded) want physical matter from the spiritual realm. There.is.no.evidence. What we do have is testimony.

 

[Red Front]

The Bible takes years of study to understand. Often, what some will call a contradiction are not contradictory at all. You seem shocked that people have different perspectives.

On what grounds do you believe that the bible is the inerrant word of an omnipotent, omniscient deity? All of the Christian apologists that I've met so far, do what you just did, which is to flippantly dismiss all of the glaring contradictions in the bible and whatever I say to them. Which brand of Christianity do you belong to? Which one should I accept to be "saved" (avoid being tortured in hell for all eternity by your "loving" god-entity).

Why aren't you a Muslim or Hare Krishna? You're probably extremely logical, and reasonable when it comes to analyzing those other religions, but when it comes to Christianity, you turn off your brain and become a blind fanatic.

 

[Meriweather]

You speak as if you know that. How do you know that there is an afterlife?

I have seen it.

How do you know that the Christian deity is real?

Experience of God.

How did you come to the conclusion that the bible is the inerrant word of a GOD, when it is full of contradictions and ancient middle-eastern mythology?

Catholics believe scripture was 'inspired' by God. It is the lessons that can be called timeless (or inerrant if you will). Going back to middle school education: Students who pay attention can readily tell you the various types of accounts in the Bible: Just So Stories; Fables; Mythology; Legends; Folklore; non-fiction; prose; poetry; adages.

 

[Red Front]

Basic science lesson I teach to middle school students. Evidence requires physical matter that can be in some way measured.

It astounds me that atheists (many of who claim to be scientifically minded) want physical matter from the spiritual realm. There.is.no.evidence. What we do have is testimony.

I don't make any claims about other dimensions or the cause of this material universe. I might have some ideas, just like many scientists do, but it's mostly speculation. You religious folks have a whole set of beliefs that you affirm and defend as if you had evidence when you don't. You even present the bible as evidence for your beliefs about the creation of the universe, a book written thousands of years ago by unknown authors, who hardly knew anything about the universe. They believed there was a roof over the earth, and a sea, over the "firmament". That's ancient middle-eastern mythology, not science. Do you believe this vast universe went helter-skelter because a caveman ate from the wrong fruit tree after being tempted by a talking snake and his wife?

 

[Red Front]

I have seen it.

Experience of God.

Catholics believe scripture was 'inspired' by God. It is the lessons that can be called timeless (or inerrant if you will). Going back to middle school education: Students who pay attention can readily tell you the various types of accounts in the Bible: Just So Stories; Fables; Mythology; Legends; Folklore; non-fiction; prose; poetry; adages.

You saw it and experienced it. That seems subjective and flaky. Evangelicals claim that their beliefs are based on a perfect book that proves their beliefs, rationally, and logically. I can't debate against "have seen it" and "experience of God". If you believe that you saw the afterlife and have experienced God, then what else is there to discuss? Your religious beliefs are subjective.

I don't know if what you saw was an afterlife or if you experienced God or not, so I don't conclude anything about that. It's not evidence for me to believe in an afterlife or in your Christian God, but I have more respect for Christians like you who don't appeal to reason and admit that their belief is based upon a subjective experience.

 

[Meriweather]

On what grounds do you believe that the bible is the inerrant word of an omnipotent, omniscient deity? All of the Christian apologists that I've met so far, do what you just did, which is to flippantly dismiss all of the glaring contradictions in the bible and whatever I say to them.

Why the constant use of the word "inerrant"? It is not an adjective I would use to describe the Bible. Are you one who believes the Bible is taken literally?

I am not a flippant person. Basically, I am ignoring the claim that there are "glaring contradictions" because it right off it tells me someone has not spent time studying scripture. However, if you would like to give one example of what you see as a contradiction, I would be happy to give you another perspective--if you are interested. Many who see contradictions are happy that there are contradictions and want no further study.

Which brand of Christianity do you belong to? Which one should I accept to be "saved" (avoid being tortured in hell for all eternity by your "loving" god-entity).

My "brand" of Christianity seldom mentions "saved". Catholic doctrine is focused on redemption and salvation. Our belief is that Christ's life, death, and resurrection redeemed all and opened the way of salvation to all. God's grace is upon all, and this grace encourages/helps us to discern the will of God and to follow it. We are reaching for the ideal in all we do, By the power of God's grace we live lives that purify/sanctify us and make us holy.

Catholic teaching is that God sends no one to hell--people choose to be completely separated from God, and God honors this choice. We do believe there is a hell. Some saints who have had visions of hell report back that it is the devil and his demons that created the terrible place known as hell.

Catholic teaching is that we spread the good news, but to tell anyone they are doomed is the dismiss the power of God and the Holy Spirit who can reach those we fallible humans cannot.

 

[Meriweather]

Why aren't you a Muslim or Hare Krishna? You're probably extremely logical, and reasonable when it comes to analyzing those other religions, but when it comes to Christianity, you turn off your brain and become a blind fanatic.

Why wouldn't I be a Muslim or Hare Krishna? God reaches all of us where we are and draws us closer.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you believe this vast universe went helter-skelter because a caveman ate from the wrong fruit tree after being tempted by a talking snake and his wife?

This question is always posed by people who read the story but never studied it. They expect everyone to see the story as literally as they do.