Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

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We determine what are purpose is, and it doesn't have to be reduced to satisfying physical needs or desires. That's just your silly rhetoric.

If all that exists is the material world then as hard as it may be for you accept all there is is satisfying material needs and primitive instincts. That's it. There is no other purpose and there is no meaning. It's all just a happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do.

 

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The point of the analogy is that it's an error to reduce human beings or any other sentient being, to its material properties. We believe the mind, the subjective dimension of human life can't be reduced to one particular component but is rather a non-physical emergent reality.

As far as actual software needing a programmer, that doesn;t imply the programmer is infinite or eternal. Programmers are finite, contingent beings, and that which is non-contingent or a necessary being may not be a god or conscious at all. You simply don't know if the necessary or non-contingent source of reality is a person or the god of the bible. That is nothing more than speculation on your part.

It's the logical conclusion of atheism. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of who God is. I've only been making a case for a creator. Who God is is a separate conversation.

What implies there is an infinite and eternal programmer is logic. By necessity there must be a first cause which was uncaused. By definition the uncaused first cause must be eternal. By definition the eternal must be unchanging. And by logic the first cause must therefore be incorporeal. There's no other way around it.

 

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It's you who does that, not me. Most atheists recognize that our subjective awareness emerges from the physical body, but it can't be reduced to any singular element, it is the result of many interactions and processes. It is a reality in and of itself, as real as the physical world. Subjective awareness and consciousness can't be reduced to one particular component, it is the result of a complex process. So it's you who is reducing life to individual properties and processes, Life is a reality that can't be reduced to anything in particular, that can be identified. Life is more of an action or verb, than a thing.

The logical conclusion of atheism is that life has no meaning and no purpose other than satisfying material needs and primitive instincts.

 

[Red Front]

The logical conclusion of atheism is that life has no meaning and no purpose other than satisfying material needs and primitive instincts.

Life has whatever purpose we want it to have. People create purpose. Material needs are important and there's more to human life than "primitive" instincts. You're quite silly and confused. At least atheists don't need to invent a god to have meaning and purpose in their lives. We don't need to live forever to be moral, unlike you who reduces life to "primitive instincts", if he doesn't have his imaginary "eternal life" guarantee from a god conjured up in his mind. How are you more moral than an atheist, when your morality hinges upon demanding eternal life from a deity? You're not moral, you're just infantile and delusional.

 

[Red Front]

It's the logical conclusion of atheism. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of who God is. I've only been making a case for a creator. Who God is is a separate conversation.

What implies there is an infinite and eternal programmer is logic. By necessity there must be a first cause which was uncaused. By definition the uncaused first cause must be eternal. By definition the eternal must be unchanging. And by logic the first cause must therefore be incorporeal. There's no other way around it.

You created god in your own image, in your mind. Your Christian god doesn't exist.

 

[Red Front]

You certainly don't because you don't seem to know what a singularity is. We have tons of data that shows the universe popped into existence in an implausible way. We have tons of evidence that a life filled universe is implausible. We know that matter and energy cannot be an eternal source of creating universes. It's your lack of a perception of God that prevents you from seeing God as the only source for creation. Everything is mind stuff.

You're speaking gibberish. Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn. There isn't a shred of evidence for Christianity or the bible.

 

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Life has whatever purpose we want it to have. People create purpose. Material needs are important and there's more to human life than "primitive" instincts. You're quite silly and confused. At least atheists don't need to invent a god to have meaning and purpose in their lives. We don't need to live forever to be moral, unlike you who reduces life to "primitive instincts", if he doesn't have his imaginary "eternal life" guarantee from a god conjured up in his mind. How are you more moral than an atheist, when your morality hinges upon demanding eternal life from a deity? You're not moral, you're just infantile and delusional.

Clearly you recoil from the atheist belief that you are just matter. As well you should.

 

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You created god in your own image, in your mind. Your Christian god doesn't exist.

You are free to believe that. But I think you are just lashing out because you don't like me pointing out the logical conclusion of atheism. I don't blame you. I wouldn't like it either if I were an atheist.

 

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You're speaking gibberish. Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn. There isn't a shred of evidence for Christianity or the bible.

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

 

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You're speaking gibberish.

Walk me through the science of how the universe began and then we will find out who is speaking gibberish.

 

[Red Front]

Clearly you recoil from the atheist belief that you are just matter. As well you should.

I'm not just matter, I am both matter and what emerges from it. My consciousness, personhood, identity.

What is Matter?​

Matter is the physical substance that makes up everything around us. It is the tangible and measurable component of the universe, and includes atoms, molecules, and other subatomic particles.

What is Consciousness?​

Consciousness, on the other hand, is the subjective experience of being aware and alive. It is what allows us to think, feel, and perceive the world around us.

You and your fellow Christians reduce humans to matter if they don't believe in your religious nonsense. But I don't reduce human beings to matter, because human beings aren't just matter. They are matter and whatever is produced by matter. What is produced by the physical body, might very well be a "soul" or something that survives the death of the material body. I'm open to that possibility. However, anyone who claims to know that there is life after the death of the biological body, is simply speculating. Guessing.

 

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I'm not just matter, I am both matter and what emerges from it. My consciousness, personhood, identity.

What is Matter?​

Matter is the physical substance that makes up everything around us. It is the tangible and measurable component of the universe, and includes atoms, molecules, and other subatomic particles.

What is Consciousness?​

Consciousness, on the other hand, is the subjective experience of being aware and alive. It is what allows us to think, feel, and perceive the world around us.

You and your fellow Christians reduce humans to matter if they don't believe in your religious nonsense. But I don't reduce human beings to matter, because human beings aren't just matter. They are matter and whatever is produced by matter. What is produced by the physical body, might very well be a "soul" or something that survives the death of the material body. I'm open to that possibility. However, anyone who claims to know that there is life after the death of the biological body, is simply speculating. Guessing.

According to atheism what emerges from it are elctro-chemical responses in the brain and nothing more. There is no purpose or meaning to life other than satisfying material needs and primitive instincts. Morals are human constructs and can be anything men want them to be. If enough people deem owning other people and raping women is for the good of society, then it can be deemed to be moral. That's the logical conclusion of atheism.

 

[Red Front]

Walk me through the science of how the universe began and then we will find out who is speaking gibberish.

According to scientific theories, the universe began with a Big Bang around 13.8 billion years ago. At the moment of the Big Bang, all matter in the universe was concentrated in an extremely hot and dense point, which then rapidly expanded and cooled, eventually forming the stars, galaxies, and other structures that we see in the universe today. This theory is supported by a range of observational evidence, including the cosmic microwave background radiation, the abundance of light elements, and the large-scale distribution of galaxies. While there are still many open questions and uncertainties about the exact details of the early universe, the Big Bang theory remains the most widely accepted scientific explanation for the origins of the universe.

Anything else we say about the singularity that preceded the big bang, or where the energy came from, or how exactly did it happen, is nothing more than speculation. If you project your god entity to that event, well that's your prerogative, you can believe whatever you want, but there is no conclusive evidence that the big bang was "triggered" by your Christian deity or any other divine being. We simply don't know yet, and to pretend that you do, is to delude yourself.

 

[Red Front]

According to atheism what emerges from it are elctro-chemical responses in the brain and nothing more. There is no purpose or meaning to life other than satisfying material needs and primitive instincts. Morals are human constructs and can be anything men want them to be. If enough people deem owning other people and raping women is for the good of society, then it can be deemed to be moral. That's the logical conclusion of atheism.

No that's not just what emerges from the material relationships and processes, there is also consciousness. The person who is typing this to you now, communicating with you. I'm not just a single cell or a chemical, I'm a conscious being that is interacting with you. You are the one who reduces human beings to mere molecules or chemicals. That's your reductionist fallacy.

 

[ding]

According to scientific theories, the universe began with a Big Bang around 13.8 billion years ago. At the moment of the Big Bang, all matter in the universe was concentrated in an extremely hot and dense point, which then rapidly expanded and cooled, eventually forming the stars, galaxies, and other structures that we see in the universe today. This theory is supported by a range of observational evidence, including the cosmic microwave background radiation, the abundance of light elements, and the large-scale distribution of galaxies. While there are still many open questions and uncertainties about the exact details of the early universe, the Big Bang theory remains the most widely accepted scientific explanation for the origins of the universe.

Anything else we say about the singularity that preceded the big bang, or where the energy came from, or how exactly did it happen, is nothing more than speculation. If you project your god entity to that event, well that's your prerogative, you can believe whatever you want, but there is no conclusive evidence that the big bang was "triggered" by your Christian deity or any other divine being. We simply don't know yet, and to pretend that you do, is to delude yourself.

That really doesn't describe where the energy came from. Can you tell me about that?

 

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No that's not just what emerges from the material relationships and processes, there is also consciousness. The person who is typing this to you now, communicating with you. I'm not just a single cell or a chemical, I'm a conscious being that is interacting with you now. You are the one who reduces human beings to atoms or chemicals. That's your reductionist fallacy.

According to atheists it's just chemical processes and electrical responses in the brain.

I don't blame you for recoiling at the belief that you are just matter and nothing more. But that's what atheism is.

 

[Red Front]

That really doesn't describe where the energy came from. Can you tell me about that?

Comprehend what you read. Why do I have to repeat myself? We don't know exactly where the energy came from, if from anywhere. Maybe the energy has always been there, maybe there are many big bangs. We have no idea yet. Scientists are investigating and conducting research. Simply saying "god did it" is not a real answer, it's a cop-out. We have to continue with the research and hopefully, in the future, we will have more answers. Maybe the answer will be "GOD" or maybe not, we just don't know yet.

 

[Red Front]

According to atheists it's just chemical processes and electrical responses in the brain.

I don't blame you for recoiling at the belief that you are just matter and nothing more. But that's what atheism is.

You are ignoring consciousness and everything that comes with it. Yes we are material beings that are conscious and aware, hence we aren't just material, we are also what emerges from that material, which is consciousness. You're the one recoiling, not me.

 

[ding]

Comprehend what you read. Why do I have to repeat myself? We don't know exactly where the energy came from, if from anywhere. Maybe the energy has always been there, maybe there are many big bangs. We have no idea yet. Scientists are investigating and conducting research. Simply saying "god did it" is not a real answer, it's a cop-out. We have to continue with the research and hopefully, in the future, we will have more answers. Maybe the answer will be "GOD" or maybe not, we just don't know yet.

You may not know what science says about where it comes from but I do. Here's a link. Let's see if you can figure it out.

The Early Universe

pages.uoregon.edu

 

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You are ignoring consciousness and everything that comes with it. Yes we are material beings that are conscious and aware, hence we aren't just material, we are also what emerges from that material, which is consciousness. You're the one recoiling, not me.

Nope. I'm not ignoring it. I'm telling you that atheists deny any higher nature to man other than he's a smart animal.

Of course you are recoiling at the atheist belief that you are just an animal with no meaning or higher purpose than satisfying material needs and animal impulses. There's no absolute right or wrong. There's just satisfying needs and urges. If men determine that it's "moral" to force women to have abortions or abolish religion then there is nothing "morally" wrong with that. How can there be? Morals are human constructs, right?