Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[Donald H]

The god had complete control over what was happening to his supposed son, and so therefore there couldn't have been any plea to forgive them.

The reason why the god stage managed the entire event has never been determined.

The fact is, the whole story can't be interpreted to make any sense.

 

[ding]

How does all of that "prove God"? It is true that the universe has a beginning, and this fact is supported by scientific evidence like cosmic microwave background radiation and redshift. However, this does not prove the existence of God. Roger Penrose, a Noble Prize-winning physicist believes the universe is cyclical:

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Before the "big bang" of our universe, there was another univese and another big bang for that universe. Where is your personal God?

You also cited the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics to support your claim. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed from one form to another. Perhaps that "form" is a univese. One universe to another, hence how does that prove the existence of your personal God entity? It doesn't.

Quantum mechanics, on the other hand, has been arguing that a closed universe can spontaneously appear out of a quantum field or "foam", of probabilities. Some call that "nothing", I don't see how that is absolutely "nothing". That quantum field might be the source of all power, energy, laws..etc. Where is your personal bible God there? Not there.

You also cited Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations. However, these equations are mathematical models that describe the behavior of the universe. They do not necessarily prove the existence of any God, much less the biblical one. So again, you're back to square one. You haven't presented any conclusive evidence yet for the existence of a God.

So far you've failed to provide any evidence to support the notion that God created the universe. Good luck next time, keep trying.

The universe beginning freaks out atheists.

 

[Donald H]

The universe beginning freaks out atheists.

It's far from settled science that the universe had a beginning. The multiverse theory explains the possibility that there was no beginning. And of course we know that we're not capable of understanding whether or not the universe/multiverse can have an end.

If you can maintain politeness, we might be able to discuss the different theories from a non-religion POV.

No faith based conversation can serve to answer our questions.

 

[Red Front]

The universe beginning freaks out atheists.

I just showed how that's not the case, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking that, go right ahead. How does this universe having a beginning prove your biblical deity or Christian theology? You're being irrational.

 

[Red Front]

It's far from settled science that the universe had a beginning. The multiverse theory explains the possibility that there was no beginning. And of course we know that we're not capable of understanding whether or not the universe/multiverse can have an end.

If you can maintain politeness, we might be able to discuss the different theories from a non-religion POV.

No faith based conversation can serve to answer our questions.

Even if it had a beginning, it doesn't prove that a personal deity was the cause of that beginning or that there wasn't another universe before the beginning of this one. Dingdonkey doesn't really care what you or I say, he's going to continue making dumb statements and deluding himself into thinking he's won something. I only interact with donkey dink for the sake of others, not him. I usually just ignore people like him, leaving them in their ignorance and stupidity.

 

[Donald H]

Even if it had a beginning, it doesn't prove that a personal deity was the cause of that beginning or that there wasn't another universe before the beginning of this one. Dingdonkey doesn't really care what you or I say, he's going to continue making dumb statements and deluding himself into thinking he's won something. I only interact with donkey dink for the sake of others, not him. I usually just ignore people like him, leaving them in their ignorance and stupidity.

I don't want anything to do with you if you're going to start namecalling and spamming on this thread or in this section of the forum.

The behaviour of said Christians speaks well enough by itself.

 

[Red Front]

I don't want anything to do with you if you're going to start namecalling and spamming on this thread or in this section of the forum.

The behaviour of said Christians speaks well enough by itself.

Boohoo.

 

[ding]

It's far from settled science that the universe had a beginning. The multiverse theory explains the possibility that there was no beginning. And of course we know that we're not capable of understanding whether or not the universe/multiverse can have an end.

If you can maintain politeness, we might be able to discuss the different theories from a non-religion POV.

No faith based conversation can serve to answer our questions.

The CMB says otherwise. How else do you explain the CMB?

 

[ding]

I just showed how that's not the case, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking that, go right ahead. How does this universe having a beginning prove your biblical deity or Christian theology? You're being irrational.

The CMB says otherwise. How do you explain the CMB?

 

[Meriweather]

The fact is, the whole story can't be interpreted to make any sense.

God in our midst. That has been the story throughout the Bible. What would make sense to you?

 

[Donald H]

God in our midst. That has been the story throughout the Bible. What would make sense to you?

I was talking about the supposed cruci-fiction and the supposed words of jesus to the god.

It simply makes no sense.

 

[Donald H]

The CMB says otherwise. How else do you explain the CMB?

The CMB doesn't address the multivers theory.

You need to understand that there are lots of theories on the beginning and the end of the universe/multiverse.

Ken Ham has one that's quite popular to Christians.

 

[Meriweather]

I was talking about the supposed cruci-fiction and the supposed words of jesus to the god.

It simply makes no sense.

Jesus spoke of forgiveness throughout his ministry, even while he was dying. At the time a living example of what he taught.

 

[ding]

The CMB doesn't address the multivers theory.

You need to understand that there are lots of theories on the beginning and the end of the universe/multiverse.

Ken Ham has one that's quite popular to Christians.

It proves matter/energy had a beginning. How else do you think the CMB got there?

 

[BreezeWood]

Simple; show us the scientific experiment based upon the scientific method that proves evolution to be a law/fact of physics. You can't demonstrate your origins, you can't demonstrate evolution to be a law........you show a single SPECIES adapting to its environment ...........all life was designed to adapt WITHIN SPECIES, if not humanity would have become extinct the first time man contracted a common cold. You present an INSECT from larva to maturity and CRY evolution, yet your insect began as an insect and it will remain an insect all throughout its life in the family of "Cicadidae", each and every generation of this life form will begin as an insect and remain an insect.....with no variation from the previous generation. Show us any animal that has changed species. Show me how a feline became a k-9, how a fish became a warm blooded land creature.

Or are you SUGGESTING that this winged insect will begin a new generation that can fly without experiencing a larva state that can't fly...it will be born with wings? That would be EVOLUTION. You show a snapshot and declare EVOLUTION? Or better yet.........that insect will next become a Bird because it has wings?

All life adapts/evolves........WITHIN SPECIES, just as Pasteur demonstrated........life can only be reproduced from pre-existing life within the same species. Demonstrate though the scientific method....how a-sexual life evolved to the point where genders were required to reproduce.


Question? If you have no foundation............you have no building, buildings do not float, how can something evolve if nothing is what you start with? Again........the convolution exists on the part of the Dogma presented by the Darwinian cultists. Regardless........you can't demonstrate EVOLUTION to be a fact of science, its a theory (an idea that does not possess the Empirical evidences to make it a fact/law of physics.

you ignore the proof provided ...

the above is the captured evidence of the spiritual content transforming the associate physiology from a land dweller to an avian being.

....you show a single SPECIES adapting to its environment

no, what is demonstrated is the physiology's spiritual content transforms the cicada from one kind of a being into an entirely different one that is the metaphysical bassis for all evolutionary progression.

as noted earlier, the origin of physiology is not what may never be reproduced - that would be the accompanying spiritual content that will never be reproduced in a test tube and is the true mystery for life's origin ... the heavens above - - not the desert below.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus spoke of forgiveness throughout his ministry, even while he was dying. At the time a living example of what he taught.

that is not true, they knew perfectly well what their fate would eventual come to by the criminals knowing their errant intentions were of no caliber to be forgiven ... who as christians use the same tactic to prevent as much as possible the true events of the 1st century renewal of liberation theology, self determination as the heavenly guide granted a&e as the course for all beings on planet earth to follow.

 

[Clyde 154]

you ignore the proof provided ...

no, what is demonstrated is the physiology's spiritual content transforms the cicada from one kind of a being into an entirely different one that is the metaphysical bassis for all evolutionary progression.

as noted earlier, the origin of physiology is not what may never be reproduced - that would be the accompanying spiritual content that will never be reproduced in a test tube and is the true mystery for life's origin ... the heavens above - - not the desert below.

I must ask again.........how old are you 15, 16? A cicada is a cicada..........its nothing new, nor will the next generation be nothing new, its a natural and common condition shared by many insects that begin in a larva state and transform into winged insects.

Larva - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is a difference between Vertical and Horizontal evolution. All biological life forms have the DNA from birth to adapt and change WITHIN species. Such as man changes.........in the so called RACES......some have light skin, some blond hair, some dark hair, some have more hair than others...some, such as Native Americans can hardly grow facial hair........but again, in the end there is only one race of humans on earth........The Human Race, all share in the same blood line as demonstrated by the fact that the blood can be transfused from one skin color to another depending onTYPE instead of skin of color.......all have the same blood. This change within species is called Horizontal evolution.......every creature has this ability.........but what you can't demonstrate is Vertical evolution.........or macro evolution from one species into a completely different species.

You are suggesting that a wolf and a dog are completely different animals because each has adapted to their surroundings in a different manner, in the end...........Dogs, foxes, wolves, coyotes, jackals, etc, are all members of the same family......called Canis.....commonly called K-9

You are presenting a false premise, and suggesting that the Cicada changed its DNA and was not birthed with the DNA signature that allowed it to grow wings and fly........much like you would attempt to declare that a human changed into a different creature when the crawling infant matured and began to walk. Nonsense.

You can't prove one example of vertical maco evolution.......but I can present many LIVING FOSSILS that have supposedly been around for millions of years......without changing. You are yet to present that facts as to how a cold blooded creature such as a fish can evolve into a warm blooded creature.........or how sea life eventually transformed into all examples of life on earth.....evolving from gills to lungs......why are humans not amphibians, it would come in handy for all the Keeping up with the Jones that keep building and living in the known paths of severe weather?

 

[Donald H]

It proves matter/energy had a beginning. How else do you think the CMB got there?

And again, the CMB doesn't say anything about a possible multiverse. Do you not understand that?

 

[ding]

And again, the CMB doesn't say anything about a possible multiverse. Do you not understand that?

I do understand. I also understand that multiverses are theoretical, don't give me pause for concern and would be creating matter from nothing just like our universe.

Do YOU understand that the CMB is empirical data which proves the universe was created from nothing?

 

[Donald H]

I do understand. I also understand that multiverses are theoretical, don't give me pause for concern and would be creating matter from nothing just like our universe.

Do YOU understand that the CMB is empirical data which proves the universe was created from nothing?

No, not from nothing. But our universe is thought by some to be one in an infinite number of universes that make up a multiverse.

Do you not understand why the CMB may not apply to the multiverse. Universes are always coming into existence and have been for an infinite amount of time.

What is the significance of the CMB to you if we imagine that our universe is all there is?. You've somehow connected it to your faith beliefs and I didn't pay enough attention to your theory to hold it in mind.

I understand that you want there to be a beginning, even though your religion doesn't support that. Not to suggest that I accept anything your religion says, but you must.

“Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever” ( Hebrews 7:3 )