Mr. Shaman
Senior Member
- May 4, 2010
- 23,892
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Republicans will ...
- repeal Obamacare
- stop the EPA and unions from destroying US companies
- quit raising taxes to pay for social programs and more spending
- maintain a strong national defense
- invest in areas the Feds should like the space industry instead of the green industry
A better chance at reduced government.. Does it always happen? Nope.. But it is more likely than with a DEM
Republicans will ...
- repeal Obamacare
This would be a good thing and is so obvious, it needs no verification. So what would they offer as an alternative?
- stop the EPA and unions from destroying US companies
How does the EPA "destroy companies" and what would the GOP do? Get rid of it? Not likely. Unions? They're weak and inconsequential nowadays but okay, what would the GOP do? Make them illegal?
- quit raising taxes to pay for social programs and more spending
Have you seen a single tax increase in the last 3 years? I haven't. I have seen cuts though.
- maintain a strong national defense
How? What does that mean? You consider it less strong under Obama than it was under Bush? Facts would contradict that.
- invest in areas the Feds should like the space industry instead of the green industry
A better chance at reduced government.. Does it always happen? Nope.. But it is more likely than with a DEM
Republicans will ...
- repeal Obamacare
This would be a good thing and is so obvious, it needs no verification. So what would they offer as an alternative?
- stop the EPA and unions from destroying US companies
How does the EPA "destroy companies" and what would the GOP do? Get rid of it? Not likely. Unions? They're weak and inconsequential nowadays but okay, what would the GOP do? Make them illegal?
- quit raising taxes to pay for social programs and more spending
Have you seen a single tax increase in the last 3 years? I haven't. I have seen cuts though.
- maintain a strong national defense
How? What does that mean? You consider it less strong under Obama than it was under Bush? Facts would contradict that.
- invest in areas the Feds should like the space industry instead of the green industry
Why is space better than green? Will space get us off foreign oil and reduce the money going to terrorists? No. Will it produce private sector jobs? Nope. Okay so you two have written lots of "fluff" but this thread is for the advanced members of the board. I appreciate that you at least had the balls to post on the thread - The Rabbi and others ran from it like a brushfire.
So let's up our game a bit.
I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to vote GOP. Official positions on specific issues. Written plans. Better yet, specifically what have they accomplished that makes them superior? I invite you exound.
A better chance at reduced government.. Does it always happen? Nope.. But it is more likely than with a DEM
Republicans will ...
- repeal Obamacare
This would be a good thing and is so obvious, it needs no verification. So what would they offer as an alternative?
- stop the EPA and unions from destroying US companies
How does the EPA "destroy companies" and what would the GOP do? Get rid of it? Not likely. Unions? They're weak and inconsequential nowadays but okay, what would the GOP do? Make them illegal?
- quit raising taxes to pay for social programs and more spending
Have you seen a single tax increase in the last 3 years? I haven't. I have seen cuts though.
- maintain a strong national defense
How? What does that mean? You consider it less strong under Obama than it was under Bush? Facts would contradict that.
- invest in areas the Feds should like the space industry instead of the green industry
Why is space better than green? Will space get us off foreign oil and reduce the money going to terrorists? No. Will it produce private sector jobs? Nope. Okay so you two have written lots of "fluff" but this thread is for the advanced members of the board. I appreciate that you at least had the balls to post on the thread - The Rabbi and others ran from it like a brushfire.
So let's up our game a bit.
I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to vote GOP. Official positions on specific issues. Written plans. Better yet, specifically what have they accomplished that makes them superior? I invite you exound.
You know not to hold your breath right?
Truth
Good leadership
Fiscal responsibility
Personal responsibility
Liberty
More money in our pockets
Sound defense policy.
Tough question.
The truth is neither party "needs" to be offering anything. What America needs is people to get up off their asses and contribute to society rather than milk from it.
A better chance at reduced government.. Does it always happen? Nope.. But it is more likely than with a DEM
In a thread asking why anyone would vote Dem, when they have no plans etc... I responded with several items that obviously required planning and were subsequently carried out. I also included a couple things that are still in the planning phase.
While i don't hold the Dems in high regard, I am quick to challenge post that lack substance or logic. One poster got rather hysterical, threw a bit of a fit at being challenged to cite specifics about what the GOP has accomplished / plans they have presented that are so vastly superior to those of the Dems, and why. He insisted I start a new thread because you know, direct answers and such, well gee.
So okay, here we go. If anyone can provide something even more intellectually substantive than the usual "Because Dems suck!" or "Obama wants to entitle votes into...." and other such prattle, I would be genuinely interested in hearing it. I will not stoop to the petty insults and labeling so common here. I just haven't seen much from the GOP that would incite anyone not already Faithful to The Cause, to vote for them. So I welcome specifics about their plans and accomplishments. Cheers!
Truth
Good leadership
Fiscal responsibility
Personal responsibility
Liberty
More money in our pockets
Sound defense policy.
Tough question.
In a thread asking why anyone would vote Dem, when they have no plans etc... I responded with several items that obviously required planning and were subsequently carried out. I also included a couple things that are still in the planning phase.
While i don't hold the Dems in high regard, I am quick to challenge post that lack substance or logic. One poster got rather hysterical, threw a bit of a fit at being challenged to cite specifics about what the GOP has accomplished / plans they have presented that are so vastly superior to those of the Dems, and why. He insisted I start a new thread because you know, direct answers and such, well gee.
So okay, here we go. If anyone can provide something even more intellectually substantive than the usual "Because Dems suck!" or "Obama wants to entitle votes into...." and other such prattle, I would be genuinely interested in hearing it. I will not stoop to the petty insults and labeling so common here. I just haven't seen much from the GOP that would incite anyone not already Faithful to The Cause, to vote for them. So I welcome specifics about their plans and accomplishments. Cheers!
You seem to think that a party has to be for something new to be viable; I disagree. Conservatives in general are for what we already have, a country that rewards hard work, innovation, intelligence and risk taking,
Okay a civil and intelligent post. I appreciate this. So please no I mean no offense when I state the the Dems could claim the exact same thing, just as legitimately.
against vast new entitlement and social engineering programs that cater to the lowest common denominator, and "against unbending loyalty to green energy or excessive new environmental and other regulatory burdens.
What are the "new" entitlement programs? What social engineering? I'd love to see us off oil completely but for Conservative, not Liberal reasons.
So most are for a repeal of Obamacare, because it will cost a trillion dollars over the next ten years (at least, with $500 billion of new taxes).
That is what Repubs say. Dems say it will reduce the deficit. I'd like to see it repealed anyway though. But I think we do need SOMETHING as an alternative.
That extra trillion dollars will come partly from Medicare (savings on fraud waste and abuse right! Read: more deficit spending); taxes on medical insurance premiums (yes, for those of us who pay them), increased Medicare taxes on wages of higher income individuals and on investment income, and excise taxes on medical equipment and fees on pharmaceutical companies (which will be paid by medical insurance companies and, therefore, by those who pay for it), and the penalty on employers who choose not to offer health insurance (that should be good for business). And what will all that money buy? A free ride for anyone who now does not find it convenient to pay for health insurance;
You don't think there are people out there who simply can't afford insurane premiums?
redistribution on a massive scale.
There is always redistribution. It is just a matter of what direction or type of recipient benefits.
Should we have a safety net? Yes. Should we be subsidizing those who would rather not pay for their own well being? No. And just to be clear, I am not against the mandate (assuming its constitutional, which Im afraid it probably isnt); I think if we are going to run a health care system that denies no one care, it stands to reason that everyone will at some time in their lives end up using those services. A mandate is unnecessary if we simply deny services to those who cant pay, but that will never happen (and rightly so). Anyway, Obamacare will lead inexorably to government-dominated and finally government-run healthcare, resulting in the destruction of the most innovative and finest healthcare system on the planet. Please no stats from the UN claiming otherwise; the US system is profligate with resources and is THE place to be if you are suffering from a serious illness. Somewhat expensive, yes, but you will not wait for service nor suffer from lack of available physicians, medical equipment or hospital space.
I had government health care in the military. It was fine. Not one officer I knew bought private insurance and I know none of the enlisted men did. I've also lived in three countries that had government health care. None of the horror stories occured in my personal experience and I am not a quick to believe the media claims as some.
Most are also for a reduction in statutory corporate income tax rates to enhance competitiveness; you can say that no one pays the statutory rates, but you would be incorrect. The largest corporations often can avoid them to some degree by making use of deductions and credits, but many are not available to the general mid-size business. In any case, those larger corporations are also the companies that are more easily able to offshore American jobs.
There is a flaw here but I think we're close in our thinking. I would do the opposite. Global Corporations (there really is no such thing as a big American company any more) pay an average of 15%. Many pay zero taxes. They don't ship jobs overseas because of taxes. Think about it. The tax rate in India is 33%. Do you think they move jobs there because of the tax rate or because there is virtually no regulation and th average wage is $2 a day? Think about that. So i would take away all their tax breaks and subsidies - BUT I would give them to companies that met two qualifications: 100% American employees and 100% of revenues reported and paid in the USA. Think about what THAT owuld do for the deficit and unemployment.
Reduce the top rate to 25% (as Mitt has suggested), eliminate many of the give away deductions that have evolved over the years and let them all compete equally. Do the same with individual rates, or you will create an accountants full employment act to manipulate income from personal to corporate earnings. And for the record, most conservatives are for supporting our most productive citizens, not badgering them about fair share (to which there is never any limit) to support our least productive citizens. Again, safety net, yes; permanent entitlement, no.
Most are for exploiting our domestic resources to the fullest, fossil as well as alternative. Against cap and trade or other confiscatory policies; the environmental policies of the West have simply moved the pollution to low-wage foreign countries that care less about the environment and therefore do more damage, then send back the resulting products. Thats not a solution; its just a bigger problem. Solar and wind energy are fine, but they are not a solution; reliance on them will just lead to poverty and misery until and unless they are competitive in all ways with carbon-based fuels.
I am all for solar etc... and every technology I can think of, started out inefficient and expensive and then got better and cheaper. Hell, i remember having to pay for a cell phone the sie of a brick and I couldn't even go on the net with it. besides, I like anything that could possibly bankrupt the Middle East. )
Most, finally, are for smaller, smarter government. We have, what, three agencies of the federal government responsible for protecting salmon at different stages? Thats lunacy, and a sign of the truth of Reagans comment that A government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! A government that gives us only what we need, not everything we want; a right-sized government that spends no more than it takes in (yes, a balanced budget amendment is the only way that will ever happen; pretty sure the Republican House took a vote on that) and expects and encourages its citizens to take care of their own problems. We have serious debt problems, and are careening toward a financial precipice. Thats enough for me not to vote for the policies of the liberals, no matter how reasonable their arguments may sound.
I have yet to see a Republican administration reduce the size of government. I mean, they always talk a good game but I don't recall any of them do it. Help me out with that one!
And, of course, because Dems suck!
There isn't much to get excited over with Republicans, but I will say I think they're more willing to accept our current economic stake and make the necessary cuts and budgeting to keep us from going off the deep end. They've done a bad job in the past at keeping spending down, but all you have to do is look at Democrats over the past few years to see they basically have to be lead kicking and screaming into having an adult conversation about the economy and our spending.
I don't even hate people for having a sense of goodwill built up for Democrats, including Obama. I just hate the lack of perspective so many have. With the Bush-era tax cuts and the debt ceiling, Obama essentially waited till the 11th hour to have the uncomfortable talk, and then used the fact that Republicans didn't readily sign on to his plan as proof of their obstruction.
There isn't much to get excited over with Republicans, but I will say I think they're more willing to accept our current economic stake and make the necessary cuts and budgeting to keep us from going off the deep end. They've done a bad job in the past at keeping spending down, but all you have to do is look at Democrats over the past few years to see they basically have to be lead kicking and screaming into having an adult conversation about the economy and our spending.
I don't even hate people for having a sense of goodwill built up for Democrats, including Obama. I just hate the lack of perspective so many have. With the Bush-era tax cuts and the debt ceiling, Obama essentially waited till the 11th hour to have the uncomfortable talk, and then used the fact that Republicans didn't readily sign on to his plan as proof of their obstruction.
The deal was an end to three tumultuous months of wrangling over the debt ceiling that brought the government to the brink of default and, thanks to the GOPs intransigence on new tax revenues, led to the first credit downgrade in the nations history. House Republicans have repeatedly threatened to renege on the deal, and this morning, they made it official, adding an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that officially replaced spending cuts from the defense sequestration with cuts from the House reconciliation package.
In a thread asking why anyone would vote Dem, when they have no plans etc... I responded with several items that obviously required planning and were subsequently carried out. I also included a couple things that are still in the planning phase.
While i don't hold the Dems in high regard, I am quick to challenge post that lack substance or logic. One poster got rather hysterical, threw a bit of a fit at being challenged to cite specifics about what the GOP has accomplished / plans they have presented that are so vastly superior to those of the Dems, and why. He insisted I start a new thread because you know, direct answers and such, well gee.
So okay, here we go. If anyone can provide something even more intellectually substantive than the usual "Because Dems suck!" or "Obama wants to entitle votes into...." and other such prattle, I would be genuinely interested in hearing it. I will not stoop to the petty insults and labeling so common here. I just haven't seen much from the GOP that would incite anyone not already Faithful to The Cause, to vote for them. So I welcome specifics about their plans and accomplishments. Cheers!
There isn't much to get excited over with Republicans, but I will say I think they're more willing to accept our current economic stake and make the necessary cuts and budgeting to keep us from going off the deep end. They've done a bad job in the past at keeping spending down, but all you have to do is look at Democrats over the past few years to see they basically have to be lead kicking and screaming into having an adult conversation about the economy and our spending.
I don't even hate people for having a sense of goodwill built up for Democrats, including Obama. I just hate the lack of perspective so many have. With the Bush-era tax cuts and the debt ceiling, Obama essentially waited till the 11th hour to have the uncomfortable talk, and then used the fact that Republicans didn't readily sign on to his plan as proof of their obstruction.
I see no evidence of Republicans making any serious attempt at reducing spending. Do you? Have I missed something?
However, Obama did say he would slash defense. That is the one area that makes the most sense to me. There is no benefit derived in jumping into foreign land wars. Well, unless you're part of the Military Industrial Complex.
Doesn't matter though. All the Repubs and several Dems killed that idea before it had a chance.
As far as the Bush Tax Cuts and debt ceiling, I'd have to disagree. Discussions about the Bush cuts have been going on for months. The debt ceiling wasn't suddenly "sprung" on the GOP - quite the opposite. The GOP suddenly came out of nowhere and said "Hey, Let's default on America's loans! That will be great fun!" and made asses of themselves in the process.