What Did You Do In The War On Terror, Daddy

[Gunny]

The enemy (terrorists) would be silly not to pursue the advantage would they not? Keep yer powder dry Gunny! As you alluded to before, you get at 500, I'll get the ones that slip through at 200.

You'll get a bigger buffer than that. I shoot at 1000, and can acquit myself quite well up to 1500.

 

[CSM]

I agree. Then I look at the most recent elections in Germany and France. I wonder, are many of 'us' starting to get it? The Eastern Europeans, non-Muslim, are way ahead of the curve on us.

I find it interesting that the medievil mentality such as displayed by the jihadists is so easily defeating adherents of the "enlightened" first world countries. Perhaps the Eastern Europeans are doing better because they are not so far removed from that medievil mentality. Historically, there are many precedents where the barbarians conquer the more civilized cultures.

 

[Bullypulpit]

We aren't going to win this war, and Iraq is just a perfect example of how we aren't. Too many people with thier heads stuck in the sand, or up other orifices, oblivious to the intent of the enemy have this retarded, moronic notion that goes directly against the stated goals of the enemy that if we just leave them alone and ignore them, they'll leave us alone.

Kinda like 9/11.

had the Bush administration not taken taken its eyes of the real enemy...you know the ones who planned, funded and executed the attacks of 9/11...you know, al Qaeda and its numerous franchises around the world we likely wouldn't be have this discussion. Instead, Bush and Co went haring off into Iraq on pretexts that were dubious, at best; thus allowing al Qaeda to rebuild and reconstitute in the border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Had Bush and Co not lost sight of the real enemy, Al Qaeda would likely be but a vague memory, crushed by the weight of the world united in opposition to their brand of extremism. With the full weight and co-operation of the world's intelligence and law enforcement agencies to back it, the hunt for al Qaeda and its spawn would have known no bounds and could have crushed the serpent wherever it reared its poisonous head. Instead, we see terrorist attacks on the rise around the world, 25% higher than last year.

Had Bush and Co not squandered the good-will of the world in its ill conceived, ill advised campaign of foreign adventurism in Iraq, the Bush administration would have brought to justice all who had dared attack America on 9/11 and the world would have thanked him for it. Instead Bush administration's image around the world is that of a bully, disdainful of the rule of law, both abroad and at home, with allies quietly falling away. Even long time Bush family friends, the Saudi Royal family is distancing itself from George W. Bush.

George W. Bush and his administration have botched the pursuit of those responsible for the attacks of 9/11. Iraq, which had nothing to do with either 9/11 of al Qaeda, now greedily sucks up our blood and treasure like some obscene monster, and as it does so, America is weakened, her safety made even more precarious....All at the behest of the Bush administration.

Since you seem to be unwilling to see this perhaps you, sir, should be examining just where your head is located.

 

[CSM]

You'll get a bigger buffer than that. I shoot at 1000, and can acquit myself quite well up to 1500.

Awesome. In truth, I am very effective out to about 800 after that ...well old age and all that...the eyes just aint what they used to be and the steady hand just isn't there anymore.

 

[Gunny]

I find it interesting that the medievil mentality such as displayed by the jihadists is so easily defeating adherents of the "enlightened" first world countries. Perhaps the Eastern Europeans are doing better because they are not so far removed from that medievil mentality. Historically, there are many precedents where the barbarians conquer the more civilized cultures.

While interesting, not surprising. The "enlightened ones," such as superlative, think they're above all that while the medievel hordes are willing to use brute force to get what they want.

Our generations that built this nation were strong. The ones who have come along after are soft and weak and think they're so damned smart they can negotiate with rattlesnakes.

 

[Gunny]

Awesome. In truth, I am very effective out to about 800 after that ...well old age and all that...the eyes just aint what they used to be and the steady hand just isn't there anymore.

That's why my Remington has a 10x scope on it.

 

[Annie]

I find it interesting that the medievil mentality such as displayed by the jihadists is so easily defeating adherents of the "enlightened" first world countries. Perhaps the Eastern Europeans are doing better because they are not so far removed from that medievil mentality. Historically, there are many precedents where the barbarians conquer the more civilized cultures.

Yep, a lesson that Vlad taught us, but we refuse to learn?

 

[CSM]

While interesting, not surprising. The "enlightened ones," such as superlative, think they're above all that while the medievel hordes are willing to use brute force to get what they want.

Our generations that built this nation were strong. The ones who have come along after are soft and weak and think they're so damned smart they can negotiate with rattlesnakes.

Exactly. The "moral high ground" will be our undoing.

 

[CSM]

That's why my Remington has a 10x scope on it.

Bad news, when the eyes get bad enough there just isnt enough focus! When I get REALLY old it will be 50 yards and iron sights or else the old pump street sweeper for me but I'll be there!

 

[CSM]

Yep, a lesson that Vlad taught us, but we refuse to learn?

Surely. I think as nations grow and bcome prosperous, their citizens tend to grow softer not necessarily a bad thing until it gets to the point that they no longer recognize when it is necessary to bcome a bit more rough...you can tell when your country has reached that point (imo) when the individual citizen is no longer interested in defending his country and leaves that task to others. I have alluded to this before regarding the US...there are many who would love to see this country resort to the UN for providing national security....disband the military or emasculate it (no gender slight intended) and even hand over it's own rule of law to outside organizations (world court?). The signs are there I am afraid.

 

[Annie]

Surely. I think as nations grow and bcome prosperous, their citizens tend to grow softer not necessarily a bad thing until it gets to the point that they no longer recognize when it is necessary to bcome a bit more rough...you can tell when your country has reached that point (imo) when the individual citizen is no longer interested in defending his country and leaves that task to others. I have alluded to this before regarding the US...there are many who would love to see this country resort to the UN for providing national security....disband the military or emasculate it (no gender slight intended) and even hand over it's own rule of law to outside organizations (world court?). The signs are there I am afraid.

Agreed. The later is what I was referring to when I said that intellectually I think we are already heading that way. It not only makes me sad, it makes me scared. (It's at this point that I agree, I'm a sheep looking for good sheepdogs.)

 

[CSM]

Agreed. The later is what I was referring to when I said that intellectually I think we are already heading that way. It not only makes me sad, it makes me scared. (It's at this point that I agree, I'm a sheep looking for good sheepdogs.)

s'ok the sheepdogs need sheep too!

 

[Annie]

s'ok the sheepdogs need sheep too!

Truly, these are frightening times, but so few realize it. Funny thing is, in the midst of the threat, we go about our business. Today was wonderful, but I never take for granted what I'll find on news when I get around to checking it out.

 

[Gunny]

had the Bush administration not taken taken its eyes of the real enemy...you know the ones who planned, funded and executed the attacks of 9/11...you know, al Qaeda and its numerous franchises around the world we likely wouldn't be have this discussion. Instead, Bush and Co went haring off into Iraq on pretexts that were dubious, at best; thus allowing al Qaeda to rebuild and reconstitute in the border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Had Bush and Co not lost sight of the real enemy, Al Qaeda would likely be but a vague memory, crushed by the weight of the world united in opposition to their brand of extremism. With the full weight and co-operation of the world's intelligence and law enforcement agencies to back it, the hunt for al Qaeda and its spawn would have known no bounds and could have crushed the serpent wherever it reared its poisonous head. Instead, we see terrorist attacks on the rise around the world, 25% higher than last year.

Had Bush and Co not squandered the good-will of the world in its ill conceived, ill advised campaign of foreign adventurism in Iraq, the Bush administration would have brought to justice all who had dared attack America on 9/11 and the world would have thanked him for it. Instead Bush administration's image around the world is that of a bully, disdainful of the rule of law, both abroad and at home, with allies quietly falling away. Even long time Bush family friends, the Saudi Royal family is distancing itself from George W. Bush.

George W. Bush and his administration have botched the pursuit of those responsible for the attacks of 9/11. Iraq, which had nothing to do with either 9/11 of al Qaeda, now greedily sucks up our blood and treasure like some obscene monster, and as it does so, America is weakened, her safety made even more precarious....All at the behest of the Bush administration.

Since you seem to be unwilling to see this perhaps you, sir, should be examining just where your head is located.

My head is located firmly atop my shoulders, and not seething with hatred for a man.

Your assumption that had we not invaded Iraq we would have squashed al Qaeda is pure speculation. We've been sitting at the same Pakistan border since 2002.

Also, the US has been perceived as bullies for decades. There was no "good will" toward us. That's dreaming. Our usual allies were on our side while the others just turned a blind eye not wanting to suffer Afghanistan's fate.

Refering to people as "treasure" is a bit overly-dramatic, and an appeal to emotionalism.

I've said on many an occasion we should not have invaded Iraq. We did. DO try to move on past that where you and much of the left seem to be stuck in time.

I also have no problem with turning the problem over to the government of Iraq. But I differentiate between that and dumping it upon them based on a Democrat-decreed, arbitrary timetable.

And need I remind you that had Saddam Hussein been actually brought to task for his every-other-week transgressions against a ceasefire agreement HE SIGNED when he should have been, he'd have been taken out back in the mid-90's latest. I don't believe GWB was President at that time.

The Dems are demanding Bush end Iraq prior to 2008 so they won't inhereit it -- mighty presumptuous of them thinking they're going to be in position to inhereit anything -- when the fact is, Clinton dumped Saddam on Bush.

 

[CSM]

Truly, these are frightening times, but so few realize it. Funny thing is, in the midst of the threat, we go about our business. Today was wonderful, but I never take for granted what I'll find on news when I get around to checking it out.

That's one of the individual choices...you can become paralyzed by what MAY be or continue on based on what IS. I prefer to prepare myself for the former and engage in the latter. When the barbarians come knocking on my door, they will have a decision to make...they will have to decide which of them is going out with me or decide to leave me be.

 

[Annie]

That's one of the individual choices...you can become paralyzed by what MAY be or continue on based on what IS. I prefer to prepare myself for the former and engage in the latter. When the barbarians come knocking on my door, they will have a decision to make...they will have to decide which of them is going out with me or decide to leave me be.

So you do think we are heading back to a Middle Ages era, where the individual is responsible for dealing with the threat?

 

[Gunny]

That's one of the individual choices...you can become paralyzed by what MAY be or continue on based on what IS. I prefer to prepare myself for the former and engage in the latter. When the barbarians come knocking on my door, they will have a decision to make...they will have to decide which of them is going out with me or decide to leave me be.

That "which of them" sounds too individual. It's they need to decide there aren't enough of them and leave or they can all die.

 

[CSM]

So you do think we are heading back to a Middle Ages era, where the individual is responsible for dealing with the threat?

No I think we as a people are beginning to accept mediocrity as a safe and acceptable alternative to world power...don't be too powerful, smart or rich. I am uncertain whether this is a 'stage' we go through or a steady state. Western Europe appears to be in that state (despite their attempts at regaining world influence through the European Union, etc.). Individual responsibility only occurs in new and growing nations on their way up, in my opinion. I have seen few examples in history where declining nations valued or encouraged individual enterprise or resposnibility.

Again, this all mere philisophical speculation on my part....

 

[CSM]

That "which of them" sounds too individual. It's they need to decide there aren't enough of them and leave or they can all die.

Heh...only one can come through an opening at a time....they may get a chance to re-assess and THEN decide to leave.

 

[Gunny]

No I think we as a people are beginning to accept mediocrity as a safe and acceptable alternative to world power...don't be too powerful, smart or rich. I am uncertain whether this is a 'stage' we go through or a steady state. Western Europe appears to be in that state (despite their attempts at regaining world influence through the European Union, etc.). Individual responsibility only occurs in new and growing nations on their way up, in my opinion. I have seen few examples in history where declining nations valued or encouraged individual enterprise or resposnibility.

Again, this all mere philisophical speculation on my part....

Might be speculation, but it sounds spot on to me.