what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?
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william the wie
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Predestination otherwise we would all get what we deserve: hell.
TheOldSchool
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God. We can't claim to know his criteria
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Christ the Lord. 
“The Condition for Giving vs. the Condition for Receiving
“Likewise, it is necessary that upon the conditions that God chose to create and to save free moral creatures, He does so in accordance with the freedom He gave them. Hence, there is no condition for God’s giving salvation, but there is one (and only one) condition laid down for receiving the gift of eternal life: faith (Acts 16:31; Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8-9). Therefore, the reception of salvation is conditioned on our belief.6 Salvation is unconditioned from the perspective of the Giver, but it is conditioned from the view of the receiver (who must believe in order to receive it). In short, salvation comes from God, but we receive it through faith: “For by grace you have been saved through faith” (Eph. 2:8 NASB).’”
- Page 182, Systematic Theology, Volume Three, SIN / SALVATION, Dr. Norman Geisler
BreezeWood
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What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?
the visible Everlasting would suffice .... not so puritanical, everything but evil is allowed.
the visible Everlasting would suffice .... not so puritanical, everything but evil is allowed.
R
rdean
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How much they help their fellow man for starters. Jesus seemed to have a thing for the poor and disdain for the wealthy. Exactly the opposite of USMB Republicans. Have you noticed that?
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The Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Quantum Windbag
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Wrong question, you should be asking who determines it.
Quantum Windbag
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I would account for it by pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.
Ass-u-me-ing that there is a life after death, there's probably nothing a Monkey can do to affect his/her role there.
I'll be honest though. That is one big-ass assumption!
I'll be honest though. That is one big-ass assumption!
The Professor
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I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless. I will begin by citing the scriptures that tend to support the “Justification by faith alone” theology (all quotes are from the KJV):
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:23-28).
“For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:2-6)
.
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone” (Romans 9:30-32).
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16).
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith” (Galatians 3:10, 11).
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:23-26).
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8, 9).
“Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:8, 9).
“Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began” (2 Timothy 1:8, 9).
“For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:3-5).
I have saved the most cited scripture for last:
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:14-18).
I believe the above verses - if believed - would lead a reasonable person to conclude that faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. However, there are other verses which would lead a reasonable person to conclude justification is by works.
It is up to YOU to read the Bible if you are concerned about Christianity. Not everyone who reads it will come away with the same interpretation. As I've already stated, Christians disagree on whether salvation is by faith or works but there are other issues. For example, some Christians believe in the doctrine of "once saved always saved" whereby one cannot lose salvation after accepting Christ; however, other Christians believe that those who continue in sin after knowing of Christ are to be treated as an infidel or worse. Some Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and others say the Book of Revelation precludes such an event.
Further, some Christians believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, the Father being greater than the Son; however others believe that He is a co-equal part of a divine trinity, while still others believe He is God Himself. There are many other theological disputes among Christians, yet all parties to such disputes point to verses in the Bible to prove their point. If you wish to explore Christianity, YOU must find your own answers.
My next post will deal with the “justification by works” doctrine. It is rather lengthy.
The Professor
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I have already addressed how Some Christians believe that all it takes to get through the Pearly Gates is to believe that Christ died for your sins. I have acknowledged that there are Bible verses which tend to prove this "justification by faith alone" doctrine; however, there are certainly many other verses which suggest the opposite, that men are justified only if their faith manifests in good works. Here are just a few examples (all references are from the KJV and any highlights are my own):
Matthew 7:21-26:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand”
(In the above verses, Christ is clearly saying that those who believers who have done wonderful things in His name will be condemned if they have worked iniquity (not obeyed God's commandments).
Matthew 16:27:
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
Matthew 25:31-46:
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
(Nowhere in that dialogue does Christ mention anything regarding bare faith as a condition of salvation? Christ makes it crystal clear that you will be judged according to how you treat others; those who mistreat others are condemned to hell, and those who are kind to others receive eternal life with Christ.)
Matthew 19:16-21 (See also Mark 10:17-21; Luke 18:18-22):
“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”
(This is by far the most significant statement in the Bible. Here Christ Himself is specifically asked what is required for salvation, and His response is to obey the commandments.)
Luke 19:8-9:
“And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
1 John 2:3-5:
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ”
(This verse couldn't make it clearer: those who do not keep the commandments do not know Christ, and those who say they do are liars. This passage shows that those who believe the “justification by faith alone” doctrine simply do not know Christ. )
John 5:28-29:
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
(The above verses deal with behavior, not merely belief. There is no mention of faith, no distinction between those being saved and those being damned other than their works.)
Acts 2:38:
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(According to the author of Acts, both baptism and Repentance (changing ones heart and conduct are prerequisites for receiving the Holy Ghost. Mere faith in Christ is not enough.)
James 1:27:
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”
(This is the only place in the Bible where religion is described, and there is no mention whatsoever about bare faith being required. In this verse the Bible is confirming what Christ said in Matthew 25:31-46, that all are judged by how they treat “the least of these.”)
James 2:14-20:
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”
(This is a powerful unambiguous and irrefutable condemnation of the “justification by faith alone” doctrine preached by Paul.)
John 8:39:
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Revelation 22
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
(The very last book in the Bible makes it plain and simple: if you obey the commandments you have the right to the tree of life. Of course, the flip side of this coin would be that if you do not obey the commandments, you will not have the right to the tree of life.)
Actually, those who believe in justification by works (obeying the commandments) are following the words of Christ, James and John (the book of Revelation). Those who adhere to justification by faith alone are following the words of Paul since it appears that all those verses which promote justification by faith alone are attributed to Paul. Here are those verses which advocate justification by faith alone: Romans 3:27; Romans 4:2; Romans 4:6; Romans 9:11; Romans 9:32; Romans 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5.
It doesn't make sense that Christ dispensed with good behavior as a condition for salvation. According to the Old Testament, God hated sin so much He drowned every man, woman and child on the planet except for Noah's small family. I cannot conceive how the Son of a sin-hating God would propose a salvation plan which embraced the concept of sin without consequences. Such a scheme would encourage sin. Everyone who has read of Martin Luther (Founder of the Lutheran Church) would understand that is exactly what has happened with those who have accepted the “justification by faith alone, no works necessary” nonsense.
For the record, I am not a Bible believing Christian, but most of my friends are. I believe that if there is a judging God, He will judge each of us not by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. That is what I am convinced a fair and just God would do. Of course, I am not God (I applied for the position, but I was deemed to be overqualified – Joking!!)
However, I have studied the Bible for over 60 years, and I know it fairly well. I have presented Bible verses which tend to prove the “justification by faith alone” doctrine and also other verses which tend to prove the “justification by works” doctrine. It is my position that a logical analysis validates the latter.
Matthew 7:21-26:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand”
(In the above verses, Christ is clearly saying that those who believers who have done wonderful things in His name will be condemned if they have worked iniquity (not obeyed God's commandments).
Matthew 16:27:
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
Matthew 25:31-46:
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
(Nowhere in that dialogue does Christ mention anything regarding bare faith as a condition of salvation? Christ makes it crystal clear that you will be judged according to how you treat others; those who mistreat others are condemned to hell, and those who are kind to others receive eternal life with Christ.)
Matthew 19:16-21 (See also Mark 10:17-21; Luke 18:18-22):
“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”
(This is by far the most significant statement in the Bible. Here Christ Himself is specifically asked what is required for salvation, and His response is to obey the commandments.)
Luke 19:8-9:
“And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
1 John 2:3-5:
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ”
(This verse couldn't make it clearer: those who do not keep the commandments do not know Christ, and those who say they do are liars. This passage shows that those who believe the “justification by faith alone” doctrine simply do not know Christ. )
John 5:28-29:
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
(The above verses deal with behavior, not merely belief. There is no mention of faith, no distinction between those being saved and those being damned other than their works.)
Acts 2:38:
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
(According to the author of Acts, both baptism and Repentance (changing ones heart and conduct are prerequisites for receiving the Holy Ghost. Mere faith in Christ is not enough.)
James 1:27:
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”
(This is the only place in the Bible where religion is described, and there is no mention whatsoever about bare faith being required. In this verse the Bible is confirming what Christ said in Matthew 25:31-46, that all are judged by how they treat “the least of these.”)
James 2:14-20:
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”
(This is a powerful unambiguous and irrefutable condemnation of the “justification by faith alone” doctrine preached by Paul.)
John 8:39:
"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Revelation 22
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
(The very last book in the Bible makes it plain and simple: if you obey the commandments you have the right to the tree of life. Of course, the flip side of this coin would be that if you do not obey the commandments, you will not have the right to the tree of life.)
Actually, those who believe in justification by works (obeying the commandments) are following the words of Christ, James and John (the book of Revelation). Those who adhere to justification by faith alone are following the words of Paul since it appears that all those verses which promote justification by faith alone are attributed to Paul. Here are those verses which advocate justification by faith alone: Romans 3:27; Romans 4:2; Romans 4:6; Romans 9:11; Romans 9:32; Romans 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5.
It doesn't make sense that Christ dispensed with good behavior as a condition for salvation. According to the Old Testament, God hated sin so much He drowned every man, woman and child on the planet except for Noah's small family. I cannot conceive how the Son of a sin-hating God would propose a salvation plan which embraced the concept of sin without consequences. Such a scheme would encourage sin. Everyone who has read of Martin Luther (Founder of the Lutheran Church) would understand that is exactly what has happened with those who have accepted the “justification by faith alone, no works necessary” nonsense.
For the record, I am not a Bible believing Christian, but most of my friends are. I believe that if there is a judging God, He will judge each of us not by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. That is what I am convinced a fair and just God would do. Of course, I am not God (I applied for the position, but I was deemed to be overqualified – Joking!!)
However, I have studied the Bible for over 60 years, and I know it fairly well. I have presented Bible verses which tend to prove the “justification by faith alone” doctrine and also other verses which tend to prove the “justification by works” doctrine. It is my position that a logical analysis validates the latter.
Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 plus the old testament) but yet we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration talking with Jesus then the only alternative is to believe justification by faith alone because Moses is in heaven. If you look at the genealogy of Jesus, there is a prostitute, an adulterer (King David), etc, etc, etc.
There is this thing called progressive revelation so if you are only reading it and not interested, you won't get to that level of understanding.
He is co-equal, co-eternal part of the Trinity and Jesus is God Himself but He isn't the Father..
If you don't spend hundreds of hours or a lot of your life in it, you won't get it if you aren't interested in finding out.
You might have studied it for 60+ years but I have not only written over 20 pages against it but I have argued against it and I'm waiting to write a book on it.
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
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Guilt is just the bodies way of telling you something is wrong. I agree don't live in it. Repent instead.
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