what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[Avatar4321]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

How much they help their fellow man for starters. Jesus seemed to have a thing for the poor and disdain for the wealthy. Exactly the opposite of USMB Republicans. Have you noticed that?

I would account for it by pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.

Clearly he doesn't or he would realize there is nothing we can do of ourselves to get into heaven on our own.

 

[Avatar4321]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless.

Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 plus the old testament) but yet we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration talking with Jesus then the only alternative is to believe justification by faith alone because Moses is in heaven. If you look at the genealogy of Jesus, there is a prostitute, an adulterer (King David), etc, etc, etc.

Except murder and killing are not the same thing.

 

[Chuckt]

Except murder and killing are not the same thing.

I'm thinking the crime wasn't justified because of David's words:

2 Samuel 12:5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, [As] the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this [thing] shall surely die:

If it isn't justified then it is murder.

 

[Bumberclyde]

I would like to get the opinion of people of different religious backgrounds.

Nothing. There is no heaven. Don't live in guilt and pursue your happiness.

Guilt is just the bodies way of telling you something is wrong. I agree don't live in it. Repent instead.

Professor Carlisle disagrees:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBeoBGM]Belinda Carlisle - Heaven Is A Place On Earth - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Professor]

Further, some Christians believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, the Father being greater than the Son; however others believe that He is a co-equal part of a divine trinity, while still others believe He is God Himself. There are many other theological disputes among Christians, yet all parties to such disputes point to verses in the Bible to prove their point. If you wish to explore Christianity, YOU must find your own answers.

My next post will deal with the “justification by works” doctrine. It is rather lengthy.

There is this thing called progressive revelation so if you are only reading it and not interested, you won't get to that level of understanding.

He is co-equal, co-eternal part of the Trinity and Jesus is God Himself but He isn't the Father..

If you don't spend hundreds of hours or a lot of your life in it, you won't get it if you aren't interested in finding out.

I have spent over 60 years studying the Bible. I don't know how man hours, but I would estimate well over 10,000. I read the Bible, on average at least half an hour each day, every day no exceptions. I'll let you do the math.

Your contention that I am not concerned about the truth is simply wrong. I have been searching for the truth for a long, long time. There are those who are truly Biblical experts who are not Believing Christians. Further their are many Christian theologians who disagree on many issues regarding Biblical interpretations, including the one I have attempted to discuss.

It is wrong to doubt someone's sincerity just because they cannot - not will not, but cannot - agree with you. It would be a wonderful things if Christians would agree on every point of doctrine, but you and I both know this is not so. Some of the most heated debate on this site regarding the Bible involves not non-Christian versus Christian but Christian versus Christian.

 

[The Professor]

However, I have studied the Bible for over 60 years, and I know it fairly well. I have presented Bible verses which tend to prove the “justification by faith alone” doctrine and also other verses which tend to prove the “justification by works” doctrine. It is my position that a logical analysis validates the latter.

You might have studied it for 60+ years but I have not only written over 20 pages against it but I have argued against it and I'm waiting to write a book on it.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

If you have written a mere 20 pages you have nothing to brag about.

 

[The Professor]

Further, some Christians believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, the Father being greater than the Son; however others believe that He is a co-equal part of a divine trinity, while still others believe He is God Himself. There are many other theological disputes among Christians, yet all parties to such disputes point to verses in the Bible to prove their point. If you wish to explore Christianity, YOU must find your own answers.

My next post will deal with the “justification by works” doctrine. It is rather lengthy.

There is this thing called progressive revelation so if you are only reading it and not interested, you won't get to that level of understanding.

He is co-equal, co-eternal part of the Trinity and Jesus is God Himself but He isn't the Father..

If you don't spend hundreds of hours or a lot of your life in it, you won't get it if you aren't interested in finding out.

Regarding your belief that Christ is a co-equal part of a Divine Trinity, many Christians would disagree with you. God knows (pun intended) how much debate I have seen among Christians on this very site regarding the Trinity. I cannot believe that you are unaware of the disagreement. Question: why do you think that Christians disagree on points of doctrine? Are those who do not agree with you insincere. I hope you answer, so that other Christians can express their views to you.

 

[The Professor]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless.

Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 plus the old testament) but yet we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration talking with Jesus then the only alternative is to believe justification by faith alone because Moses is in heaven. If you look at the genealogy of Jesus, there is a prostitute, an adulterer (King David), etc, etc, etc.

I am very familiar with what appears to be TWO genealogies of Christ (Matthew and Luke), but that is a subject for another time. You make a good point, so add the verses you cited to the list of verses that I already provided which tend to prove that justification is by faith alone.

However, the verses I quoted which tend to prove that justification is through works, or rather the faith that manifests in works, are still part and parcel of the Holy Scriptures and many Christians believe them literally. The truth is not established by quoting a verse or two. It is established by studying the scripture, comparing verses, and realizing that sometimes it is impossible to come to any conclusion other than that the Bible is capable of multiple interpretations. Those Christians who disagree with you are just as intelligent, just as sincere, just as faithful as you.

Edited to add: Later on today, I will show you why Moses's transfiguration does not really prove justification by faith alone. Right now, I want to take a few minutes and watch Judge Judy.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's called "The Great Unknown" for a very good reason...

It's the man who claims to KNOW what happens at the moment of death who is deceived.

 

[speck]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

 

[edthecynic]

Traffic - Heaven is in your mind

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR3qTWZ9zik]Heaven is in your mind Traffic Music Video with Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Bumberclyde]

Do pedophile priests get to go to heaven?

 

[edthecynic]

Do pedophile priests get to go to heaven?

Apparently, as long as they accept Jesus as Lord and savior, YES!

 

[Smilebong]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

"Heaven" is the dwelling place of God. And in Revelation it says Heaven descends to earth after God renews the earth. Meaning that God comes to live on earth. So, we will live on earth, and heaven will be here.

 

[edthecynic]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

"Heaven" is the dwelling place of God. And in Revelation it says Heaven descends to earth after God renews the earth. Meaning that God comes to live on earth. So, we will live on earth, and heaven will be here.

Revelation also says 1/3 of the stars in "heaven" will smash into the Earth in the last days. That will leave a hell of a lot of renewing on Earth.

 

[speck]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

"Heaven" is the dwelling place of God. And in Revelation it says Heaven descends to earth after God renews the earth. Meaning that God comes to live on earth. So, we will live on earth, and heaven will be here.

It says the Holy city will come down from Heaven.

 

[Chuckt]

have spent over 60 years studying the Bible. I don't know how man hours, but I would estimate well over 10,000. I read the Bible, on average at least half an hour each day, every day no exceptions. I'll let you do the math.

Your contention that I am not concerned about the truth is simply wrong. I have been searching for the truth for a long, long time. There are those who are truly Biblical experts who are not Believing Christians. Further their are many Christian theologians who disagree on many issues regarding Biblical interpretations, including the one I have attempted to discuss.

It is wrong to doubt someone's sincerity just because they cannot - not will not, but cannot - agree with you. It would be a wonderful things if Christians would agree on every point of doctrine, but you and I both know this is not so. Some of the most heated debate on this site regarding the Bible involves not non-Christian versus Christian but Christian versus Christian.

Professor,

I'm not judging you and I never said you weren't concerned about truth. I'm not judging your sincerity. If you said you studied that much, I believe you.

I've been doing preaching and teaching since 1986 and I started writing it down on computer and thumb drives. I could literally spam this discussion if I wanted to.

I listened to what everybody had to say in my day and after reading the Bible, I made my own decisions as to what positions were right. On the top of that, God did something which He never did before in my life and started speaking through the scriptures which the Westminster Confession of Faith says:

Article X says,"The Supreme Judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.1"

I believe article X because I believe that we are to test all things by scripture (Acts 17:11) and that the Holy Spirit comes alive like they say and that the Holy Spirit speaks in and through the scriptures.

I basically stepped out by faith and God confirmed it in the scriptures.

 

[Chuckt]

However, the verses I quoted which tend to prove that justification is through works, or rather the faith that manifests in works, are still part and parcel of the Holy Scriptures and many Christians believe them literally. The truth is not established by quoting a verse or two. It is established by studying the scripture, comparing verses, and realizing that sometimes it is impossible to come to any conclusion other than that the Bible is capable of multiple interpretations. Those Christians who disagree with you are just as intelligent, just as sincere, just as faithful as you.

"If by grace, then it (Salvation) is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT (SALVATION) BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE; OTHERWISE WORK IS NO MORE WORK." (Romans 11:6)

If you work for salvation then it is no more grace because you are rejecting the gift of eternal life and bringing your own counterfeit gift.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him] (God): for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And this is where my 20 page paper comes in if you try to teach James:

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The main things are the plain things:

Jesus said,"Verily, Verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, *Hath* everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24

It doesn't say,'might have' or 'could have'.. It says,"*hath*" everlasting life.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."-John 3:16

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Rozman]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

How much they help their fellow man for starters. Jesus seemed to have a thing for the poor and disdain for the wealthy. Exactly the opposite of USMB Republicans. Have you noticed that?

I guess Jesus was a Democrat.
Wealthy people are evil.
Unless you're ...
Nancy Pelosi
Harry Reid
John Kerry...He served in Viet Nam by the way.
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
Michele Obama

 

[Gracie]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

God knows their true heart. Nobody else does.