Zone1 What Christianity Says

[Arlette]

Sin is missing the target--the target being the ideal response or action.

huh?

 

[Meriweather]

huh?

How do you define sin?

 

[Arlette]

How do you define sin?

A transgression against divine law

 

[alang1216]

Repentance (turning away from sin) results in the forgiveness of sins.

You have to live long enough to repent. Not everyone gets that chance.

 

[alang1216]

And accepting Jesus is important to you?

Not me, Paul.

 

[Meriweather]

Not me, Paul.

Yes. Paul is one of His Apostles. He accepted Jesus. I also accept the teachings of Jesus as they work well in my life. However, there are people who post in this forum who are of another faith or who are atheists. Accepting Jesus isn't anywhere near their radar. He is not important to them. So what?

 

[alang1216]

Yes. Paul is one of His Apostles. He accepted Jesus. I also accept the teachings of Jesus as they work well in my life. However, there are people who post in this forum who are of another faith or who are atheists. Accepting Jesus isn't anywhere near their radar. He is not important to them. So what?

John 14:6
New International Version
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Meriweather]

John 14:6
New International Version
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What was Jesus' way? What other way(s) were being taught/advocated?

Jesus way was obedience to the Father--discerning the will of God and following it. Jesus' way was repentance/turning away from disobedience/sin and to obedience. This is straight out of the Jewish playbook. Certainly in Jesus' time there were Temple authorities who were pushing Temple sacrifices as the way to God and the way of forgiveness.

So, again, what say you? Do you believe giving to the Temple coffers and offering a Temple sacrifice for your sins to be forgiven is the way to the Father? Or...is it just possible you believe that the Way to God is discerning the will of God and following it; turning away from disobedience of God's love and replacing it with obedience results in the forgiveness of sins?

I understand some denominations teach that those who believe God punished Jesus for their personal sins inherit a heavenly afterlife. So I ask. Where did Jesus say this? His troubles were about proclaiming repentance for the forgiveness of sins, not that sins required punishment and that he would take on that punishment and then sins would be forgiven. In his own lifetime Jesus was proclaiming, Sins are forgiven, not that they would be forgiven in about three years, or after his death. Sins are forgiven upon turning away from committing them.

Jesus never expected people to build a religion around a single verse not well understood in modern times. Ask, what was going on in Jesus' day? What was understood in Jesus' time?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Yes i am. The God Israel served= The Abrahamic God= a single being God= YHWH(Jehovah)--So does the religion that has Jesus today.

And yet you bow down to the Catholic Church just like all the Protestant denominations

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Jesus way was obedience to the Father--discerning the will of God and following it. Jesus' way was repentance/turning away from disobedience/sin and to obedience

In WORDS you say the right things, but you do not BELIEVE or follow or TEACH the Way when you tell people there is ANY OTHER WAY TO THE FATHER BESIDES JESUS

 

[kjw47]

And yet you bow down to the Catholic Church just like all the Protestant denominations

Actually we expose the falseness of all trinity religions as a major part of Babylon the great, the harlot( worldwide false religions)--We know 100% Catholicism was this-2Thess 2:3= the son of destruction( peredition) = the great apostasy-along with her branches.
Truth didnt come back until many corrections were made and Gods name put back into his bible where he willed because he wants it there. All those trinity religions condemned the NWT for doing that. It was removed by satans will to mislead. And those religions support his will in that matter over Gods will. Very sad.

 

[Meriweather]

In WORDS you say the right things, but you do not BELIEVE or follow or TEACH the Way when you tell people there is ANY OTHER WAY TO THE FATHER BESIDES JESUS

Matthew 7 comes immediately to mind: Jesus says "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

I continually point out Jesus saying we are to discern the will of the Father and follow it. People of other faiths also discern the will of God and follow it. I also point out that Jesus came to call those of us who were lost--that the healthy have no need of a physician.

 

[Clyde 154]

Christen against Christians​

Greetings
if I may, this is what Christ says about Christians
Phil 2:3-5 Doing nothing through envy or through pride, but with low thoughts of self let everyone take others to be better than himself; Not looking everyone to his private good, but keeping in mind the things of others. Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus

Phil 1:15-17 Though some are preaching Christ out of envy and competition, others do it out of a good heart: These do it from love, conscious that I am responsible for the cause of the good news: But those are preaching Christ in a spirit of competition, not from their hearts, but with the purpose of giving me pain in my prison.

2 Cor 1:12 For our glory is in this, in the knowledge which we have that our way of life in the world, and most of all in relation to you, has been holy and true in the eyes of God; not in the wisdom of the flesh, but in the grace of God.

Titus 1:9-10 Keeping to the true word of the teaching, so that he may be able to give comfort by right teaching and overcome the arguments of the doubters. For there are men who are not ruled by law; foolish talkers, false teachers, especially those of the circumcision,

Phil 1:16-17 These do it from love, conscious that I am responsible for the cause of the good news: But those are preaching Christ in a spirit of competition, not from their hearts, but with the purpose of giving me pain in my prison.

2 Cor 12:20 For I have a fear that, when I come, you may not be answering to my desire, and that I may not be answering to yours; that there may be fighting, hate, angry feeling, divisions, evil talk about others, secrets, thoughts of pride, outbursts against authority;

Prov 30:11-14 There is a generation who put a curse on their father and do not give a blessing to their mother. There is a generation who seems to themselves to be free from sin but are not washed from their unclean ways. There is a generation, O how full of pride are their eyes! O how their brows are lifted up! There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, their strong teeth like knives, for the destruction of the poor from the earth, and of those who are in need from among men.

Prov 11:24-26 A man may give freely, and still, his wealth will be increased; another may keep back more than is right, but only comes to be in need. He who gives blessing will be made fat, but the curser will himself be cursed. He who keeps back grain will be cursed by the people, but a blessing will be on the head of him who lets them have it for a price.

1 Cor 11:27-34 If, then, anyone takes the bread or the cup of the Lord in the wrong spirit, he will be responsible for the body and blood of the Lord. But let no man take of the bread and the cup without testing himself. For a man puts himself in danger, if he takes part in the holy meal without being conscious that it is the Lord's body. For this cause, a number of you are feeble and ill, and a number are dead. But if we were true judges of ourselves, punishment would not come on us. But if punishment does come, it is sent by the Lord, so that we may be safe when the world is judged. So then, my brothers, when you come together to the holy meal of the Lord, let there be waiting for one another. If any man is in need of food, let him take his meal in his house; so that you may not come together to your damage. And the rest I will put in order when I come.

Malachi 3: 16 - 18 Then those in whom was the fear of the Lord had talked together: and the Lord gave ear, and it was recorded in a book to be kept in mind before him, for those who had the fear of the Lord and gave thought to his name. And they will be mine, says the Lord, in the day when I make them my special property; and I will have mercy on them as a man has mercy on his son who is his servant. Then you will again see how the upright man is different from the sinner, and the servant of God from him who is not.

1 Tim 3:1-7 This is a true saying, A man desiring the position of a Bishop has a desire for good work. The Bishop, then, is to be a man of good name, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, serious-minded, having respect for order, opening his house freely to guests, a ready teacher; Not quickly moved to wrath or blows, but gentle; no fighter, no lover of money; Ruling his house well, having his children under control with all serious behavior; (For if a man has not the art of ruling his house, how will he take care of the church of God?) Not one newly taken into the church, for fear that, through his high opinion of himself, he may come into the same sin as the Evil One. And he is to have a good name among those outside the church so that nothing may be said against him and he may not be taken by the designs of the Evil One.

Why not finish Phil. 2 and stay in context according to the subject matter.....why stop at Phil. 2:5? Finish the text, read the very next line forward.........."Who (Jesus) being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in the fashion as man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also (also....in addition, more than 1) hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name: (and that name is not Jehovah, a misapplied German translation for God....that name is Jesus Christ that is above every name, as explained in the very next verse.) THAT AT THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, OF THINGS IN HEAVEN, AND THINGS IN EARTH, AND THINGS UNDER THE EARTH." -- Phil 2:6-10)

Why do you not continue to read but cherry pick verses away from the contextual integrity of the Book, Chapter and Verse? Because when the context and subject matter is considered as a whole..........it contradicts a great many false doctrines made up by men pretending to be religious.

What's next........reading from your own version of the Bible? Declaring certain texts are made in error.......but your new Book is correct this time......since God failed the on His first attempt when He declared His words would never fail? "Heaven and earth shall pass away but My Words shall not pass away." -- Matthew 24:35

Beware of any cult that claims to be in possession of NEW REVELATIONS from God..........from 600 - 2000 years after He delivered the "Perfect Law of Liberty" to mankind (James 1:25) The faith having been delivered ONCE unto the saints of the 1st century. -- Jude 3

Why would God......deliver MORE REVELATIONS when He stated (by inspiration of the Spirit of Truth, That man has everything that pertains to life and godliness through the revelations of Jesus Christ? -- 2 Peter 1:3

 

[alang1216]

What was Jesus' way? What other way(s) were being taught/advocated?

Jesus way was obedience to the Father--discerning the will of God and following it. Jesus' way was repentance/turning away from disobedience/sin and to obedience. This is straight out of the Jewish playbook. Certainly in Jesus' time there were Temple authorities who were pushing Temple sacrifices as the way to God and the way of forgiveness.

So, again, what say you? Do you believe giving to the Temple coffers and offering a Temple sacrifice for your sins to be forgiven is the way to the Father? Or...is it just possible you believe that the Way to God is discerning the will of God and following it; turning away from disobedience of God's love and replacing it with obedience results in the forgiveness of sins?

I understand some denominations teach that those who believe God punished Jesus for their personal sins inherit a heavenly afterlife. So I ask. Where did Jesus say this? His troubles were about proclaiming repentance for the forgiveness of sins, not that sins required punishment and that he would take on that punishment and then sins would be forgiven. In his own lifetime Jesus was proclaiming, Sins are forgiven, not that they would be forgiven in about three years, or after his death. Sins are forgiven upon turning away from committing them.

Jesus never expected people to build a religion around a single verse not well understood in modern times. Ask, what was going on in Jesus' day? What was understood in Jesus' time?

All good questions for which I have no answers. As a non-Christian, I see Christianity from the outside and from here there seems to be a personal/unique Christianity for every Christian. Maybe that explains the appeal and success of Christianity?

 

[SweetSue92]

What was Jesus' way? What other way(s) were being taught/advocated?

Jesus way was obedience to the Father--discerning the will of God and following it. Jesus' way was repentance/turning away from disobedience/sin and to obedience. This is straight out of the Jewish playbook. Certainly in Jesus' time there were Temple authorities who were pushing Temple sacrifices as the way to God and the way of forgiveness.

So, again, what say you? Do you believe giving to the Temple coffers and offering a Temple sacrifice for your sins to be forgiven is the way to the Father? Or...is it just possible you believe that the Way to God is discerning the will of God and following it; turning away from disobedience of God's love and replacing it with obedience results in the forgiveness of sins?

I understand some denominations teach that those who believe God punished Jesus for their personal sins inherit a heavenly afterlife. So I ask. Where did Jesus say this? His troubles were about proclaiming repentance for the forgiveness of sins, not that sins required punishment and that he would take on that punishment and then sins would be forgiven. In his own lifetime Jesus was proclaiming, Sins are forgiven, not that they would be forgiven in about three years, or after his death. Sins are forgiven upon turning away from committing them.

Jesus never expected people to build a religion around a single verse not well understood in modern times. Ask, what was going on in Jesus' day? What was understood in Jesus' time?

Interesting.

Is this Catholic teaching? That maybe Jesus didn't die for our sins?

 

[Meriweather]

Is this Catholic teaching? That maybe Jesus didn't die for our sins?

The first I ever heard that Jesus took on punishment for personal, individual sins was here online. I am still not sure which verse is being expanded upon to reach that conclusion. The reason I never heard it is because Catholic homilies address what the Gospel says, what Jesus says in the Gospel. Jesus never said, "Sins will be forgiven after..." so I never heard a homily on it. He never said, "I was anointed by the Father to be punished for everyone's sins..." so I never heard a homily on that, either.

On the other hand, homilies and Bible studies did connect that the disobedience of mankind was a factor in being ousted from the Garden of Eden. It was emphasized that Jesus "took on" (was fighting) the sins of mankind (disobedience to God). He did this by living a life of obedience--and teaching that we could/should as well.

Perhaps it is a fine line? Jesus proclaimed repentance for forgiveness, not punishment for forgiveness--not our punishment and certainly not of of Jesus in our stead.

The point of Jesus' life was to save us from sin, correct? To show us obedience to God is a choice; that when we fail, we are forgiven. Jesus showed us the way of not only avoiding sin, but the way out of sin when it happens. He was obedient to this mission from God--even to death on a cross.

I know Jesus saved me from many sins--all the sins I did not commit--all thanks to his life, death, and resurrection. He saved me from hopelessness over sins committed. There were consequences of my sins--sin comes up with built-in consequences. I was not "saved" from those consequences, and nor do I believe I should have been.

Yes, I believe with all my heart, all my being, Jesus saved me from sin, died because we sin. I don't believe his mission was to be punished for my--or for anyone's--sins.

 

[Meriweather]

I see Christianity from the outside and from here there seems to be a personal/unique Christianity for every Christian. Maybe that explains the appeal and success of Christianity?

I believe the appeal and success of Christianity is that it addresses all of what mankind has in common. While we all hold much in common, we do lead unique, personal lives. Christianity addresses how its common truths can be applied to each personal and unique life.

 

[SweetSue92]

The first I ever heard that Jesus took on punishment for personal, individual sins was here online. I am still not sure which verse is being expanded upon to reach that conclusion. The reason I never heard it is because Catholic homilies address what the Gospel says, what Jesus says in the Gospel. Jesus never said, "Sins will be forgiven after..." so I never heard a homily on it. He never said, "I was anointed by the Father to be punished for everyone's sins..." so I never heard a homily on that, either.

On the other hand, homilies and Bible studies did connect that the disobedience of mankind was a factor in being ousted from the Garden of Eden. It was emphasized that Jesus "took on" (was fighting) the sins of mankind (disobedience to God). He did this by living a life of obedience--and teaching that we could/should as well.

Perhaps it is a fine line? Jesus proclaimed repentance for forgiveness, not punishment for forgiveness--not our punishment and certainly not of of Jesus in our stead.

The point of Jesus' life was to save us from sin, correct? To show us obedience to God is a choice; that when we fail, we are forgiven. Jesus showed us the way of not only avoiding sin, but the way out of sin when it happens. He was obedient to this mission from God--even to death on a cross.

I know Jesus saved me from many sins--all the sins I did not commit--all thanks to his life, death, and resurrection. He saved me from hopelessness over sins committed. There were consequences of my sins--sin comes up with built-in consequences. I was not "saved" from those consequences, and nor do I believe I should have been.

Yes, I believe with all my heart, all my being, Jesus saved me from sin, died because we sin. I don't believe his mission was to be punished for my--or for anyone's--sins.

Matthew 26:28 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins

The above is all you really need to understand, especially in light of all the OT verses about sacrifices in the Temple.

 

[Meriweather]

Matthew 26:28 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins

The above is all you really need to understand, especially in light of all the OT verses about sacrifices in the Temple.

Exactly! Once more Jesus speaks of forgiveness. He lived and gave his entire life--poured out his blood--over his mission to proclaim forgiveness (not punishment) of sins. His life, blood, teachings poured forth the message of repentance for the forgiveness of sins; that we should discern the will of God and be obedient to it.

Catholics believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Forgiveness of sins is in his blood and is also in our blood through the life he gives and his life he shares through the Eucharist.

Is this the verse so many use for their belief that Jesus had to be punished? Still, I suppose the central message still holds whether one believes sins are forgiven by turning from/repenting of them...or whether they believe sins are forgiven because Jesus was punished for all sin?

 

[Meriweather]

Another thought to ponder:

Jesus gave his life--sacrificed his life in obedience to the will of God that we know sins are forgiven. Isn't that why Jesus is known as the final sacrifice? His blood given as a sign of this New Covenant/Testament, Repentance for the forgiveness of sin.