Zone1 What are Your Deepest Confusions About God?

[Meriweather]

I've asked many times "why"?or "why me"? It often doesn't make sense.

Years ago, in our early twenties, my best friend and I were discussing and pondering this. We may have come up with something that might be worth you pondering as well. She said, "It's like God keep trying to teach me something, and I keep getting it wrong--so he tries again." We likened it to a circle--but a spiral circle where we were able to keep advancing up.

 

[zaangalewa]

Mt Olympus exists
Heaven is made up

Tell me how to go out of the universe so I'm able to see there that your claim is right or wrong or not provable. Or has God revealed himself to you and told you that heaven not exists? Or whyelse should I believe what you say? Why do you think your belief is convincing?

 

[rightwinger]

Here we go, running away to hide in "Scientism" the religion where only the physical exists. Scientism provides comforting boundaries where one doesn't have to explore the non-physical. One can stay landlocked, with no need to be a pioneer exploring the outside physical realms of spiritualism, philosophies, even ideas.

Scientism provides rational explanations for the world we live in.
Religion provides unsupported fantasies

 

[kyzr]

let me guess - you are a desert dweller ... just sayin.
no, bb is a cyclical event - matter in expansion from the initial event is along a finite angle of trajectory that will return all matter at the same time to its origin without changing direction to convert back to energy to re-initiate a new moment of singularity and cosmological explosion.

Nope. The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate.

Accelerating expansion of the universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

James Webb Telescope Confirms the Universe Is Expanding Faster Than We Thought—and Scientists Still Don’t Know Why

The findings suggest that astronomers’ widely accepted cosmology models might be missing something—meaning the longstanding mystery known as the “Hubble tension” continues

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[kyzr]

I've never been confused by the doctrine of the Trinity because I don't believe in it, but upon reading about it I did find it to be confusing that others would believe in it since it is not in the Bible or any revealed scripture that I am aware of. The part that is extremely confusing is when it is taught that the Father and the Son are the same being and yet separate and distinct persons. Apparently this concept was devised in the post apostolic era a good time after the apostles and Christ were no longer leading the church.

At Mass Catholics say the Nicean Creed every time. Here is the official explaination:

Consubstantial with the Father

Q: In the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, why has "one in being with the Father" been changed to "consubstantial with the Father?" A: The new translation is...

www.usccb.org

"The bishops at the Council of Nicea (AD 325), in order to ensure that Jesus was professed as the eternal Son of God, equal to the Father, stated that he is "the Son of God, begotten from the Father, the only-begotten, that is from the substance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, the same substance ( homoousion) with the Father..." The Creed of the Council of Constantinople (381), which is professed at all Sunday Masses and Solemnities within the Catholic Church, similarly stated: "We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of the same substance ( homoousion) with the Father."

I can put a slight scientific spin on it, the Big Bang was created from God's energy, this dimension is under the Son's authority. There may be other universes under different Sons called the multiverse. "No one comes to the Father except thru Me".

The Holy Ghost is apparently the connector between Jesus and the Father, IMHO the Holy Ghost is "female", making the Holy Family in the image of humans, or vice-versa.

 

[kyzr]

Scientism provides rational explanations for the world we live in.
Religion provides unsupported fantasies

Science can't explain the big bang and how the universe formed.
Got a link for scientism's explanation of the Big Bang?

 

[kyzr]

you tell me ding
~S~

....a little more action...

 

[Meriweather]

Scientism provides rational explanations for the world we live in.

Yes. Do you remember as a kid, or even having been around young children throughout your life, the basic question they could (and I'm sure, still do) ask ad nauseum?

Why? Why? Why?

Science can answer what it is, how it came to be, even (at times) where it originated. Science cannot answer the basic why--Why is it here? Why did it first come into being?

Religion provides unsupported fantasies

No. Religion searches for truth as passionately as science does. Science leaves the question of 'Why' to those exploring areas outside of science: Ideas. Philosophy. Religion. And these explorers are no more interested in fantasy than scientists are. Dismissing research, exploration, findings in these areas in unscientific by definition.

 

[zaangalewa]

Scientism provides rational explanations for the world we live in.

Sorry - but the belief in [natural] science and [natural] science on its own are two totally different things. A real scientist is not a scientismist.

Religion provides unsupported fantasies

What's nonsense. Religion (=to be rebound in god) is "sinnstiftend" - ¿how to translate this? "meaningful" is a bad translation "creating sense" would be better but sounds also not so good. Perhaps is "religion is founding sense" the best translation - what's the opposite of nonsense.

„Die meisten von uns – dessen müssen wir uns bewußt sein – lieben ihre Hypothesen, und es ist, wie ich einmal sagte, eine zwar schmerzhafte, aber jung und gesund erhaltende Turnübung, täglich, gewissermaßen als Frühsport, seine Lieblingshypothese über Bord zu werfen.“
Konrad Lorenz
“Most of us - we have to be aware of this - love our hypotheses, and it is, as I once said, a painful exercise, but one that keeps us young and healthy, to throw our favorite hypothesis overboard every day, as a kind of early morning exercise.”

 

[zaangalewa]

you tell me ding

View attachment 1056252
~S~

What you paint here is the Christian form of the little jihad ("crusade") in the war between the Normans (Brits, Franks) and the Seljuks (Turks, Arabs). A short time before the Normans had conquered Britannia and the Seljuks had conquered Jerusalem and Mekka. The way they fought: 3-6 templars met enemies. The next hours they made themselve ready to fight in the eyes of their enemies. Then they attacked - slowly. Very slowly. The dynamic in your picture is more a modern kind of entertainement.

Die Wahrheit bleibt den Stolzen verborgen, dem Demütigen aber wird sie geoffenbart.
Bernhard von Clairvaux
The truth remains hidden from the proud, but it is revealed to the humble.

 

[sparky]

The dynamic in your picture is more a modern kind of entertainement.

the dynamic has never changed Zaang

~S~

 

[ding]

you tell me ding

View attachment 1056252
~S~

The world would not have been better without religion.

 

[sparky]

The world would not have been better without religion.

Man's manipulation of religion is the root of all human conflict , woefully antithetical to whatever God you can point out , save for Satan Ding

~S~

 

[ding]

Man's manipulation of religion is the root of all human conflict , woefully antithetical to whatever God you can point out , save for Satan Ding

~S~

I think your biases cloud your ability to be objective.

 

[sparky]

I think your biases cloud your ability to be objective.

I think my subjective experiences allow my objectivity Ding

~S~

 

[zaangalewa]

the dynamic has never changed Zaang

What's totally wrong.

View attachment 1056325
View attachment 1056324

View attachment 1056321

~S~

I fear you think a lot of unreal bullshit. Last year had been about 60 wars on our planet I heard. With "Christ's army" and such bullshit textes has this nothing to do. Which atheist wrote this text?



Wulfila Bible ~350 AD

 

[onefour1]

Trinity is all through scripture. God's Spirit hovering over...God's Word being born into the world...God as Creator. Jesus statement of I AM; of being one with the Father (Creator). All this is the power and being of One God. Three persons, one God. The etymology of the word 'person' comes from 'persona' often used in plays where one individual played two or more roles. One actor...two or three personas or persons. Christians see the power of God acting in three ways: First, as Father/Creator. Second, the power of the Word. Third, as Spirit blowing where it wills always through Creator and Word.

LDS, of course, sees it differently. LDS teaches three people (individuals) (or Gods) make up the Godhead.

We don't believe that the oneness of God means that they are the same being. Nowhere in scripture does it express that the Father and Son are the same being. John 17 tells us that we all can become one with the Father and Son just as they are one with each other. Does this mean that we will all become the same being?

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Oneness of God does not imply being the same being.

 

[Meriweather]

We don't believe that the oneness of God means that they are the same being. Nowhere in scripture does it express that the Father and Son are the same being. John 17 tells us that we all can become one with the Father and Son just as they are one with each other. Does this mean that we will all become the same being?

How do you read John 17:10?

 

[BreezeWood]

The Bible teaches God is One, no other like him, that he alone is the almighty. God cares about humanity, about redeeming them and opening up the Way of Salvation. God fights for us, not for himself. He calls us to love one another. He calls people to put Him first. Zeus never cared if people put him first or not--nor called for them to do so.

neither zeus or meriweathers fantasy as zeus makes clear they do not need to have themselves put first - between those two that would have been zeuses preference not the heavens.

 

[BreezeWood]

Nope. The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate.

nope, the finite angle of trajectory will return all mass at the same time without changing direction to its point of origin to again recompact into pure energy to repeat the cyclical - bb.