West Bank is a fragmented mess

[Quasar44]

I saw a map and all the Palestinian areas are broken up like islands surrounded by tiny Jewish settlements

Must be hundreds of islands

Impossible to ever have peace

 

[mudwhistle]

I saw a map and all the Palestinian areas are broken up like islands surrounded by tiny Jewish settlements

Must be hundreds of islands

Impossible to ever have peace

I remember when I said back in 2000 that America would eventually be like the Middle-East.

 

[rylah]

Nah, what you see is optics.
You visit the place You get amazed
how much it's the opposite of what You'd expect - let alone 'hottest spot'...

It's a rural place, most just live quietly., not bothering of neither, nor what outsiders think.

 

[Rigby5]

I saw a map and all the Palestinian areas are broken up like islands surrounded by tiny Jewish settlements

Must be hundreds of islands

Impossible to ever have peace

Its easy to have peace.
Just enforce the 1948 UN partition.

 

[Rigby5]

Nah, what you see is optics.
You visit the place You get amazed
how much it's the opposite of what You'd expect - let alone 'hottest spot'...

It's a rural place, most just live quietly., not bothering of neither, nor what outsiders think.

Wrong.
The native Palestinians are constantly roadblocked by machinegun posts who deliberately hold up Arab traffic.
The wall Israel built is totally on Palestinian private property, and deliberately divided Arab farmer's fields to they can not be used.
Native Palestinians are not allowed to use Israeli schools, hospitals, or even roads.

 

[shoshi]

Its easy to have peace.
Just enforce the 1948 UN partition.

The one the Palestinians rejected you mean.

 

[Rigby5]

The one the Palestinians rejected you mean.

The Palestinians did not like the 1948 partition, because it gave 55% of the country to 30% of the population, especially since the 30% were mostly illegal immigrants.
But they WERE willing to accept it.

The war did NOT happen over the 1948 partition, at all.
The war was over Zionists massacring Arab villages, like Deir Yassin and hundreds of others.
The Zioinists had killed all the British peacekeeper by blowing up the King David Hotel, and shot down the UN Moderator, Folke Bernadotte, so there was no one to prevent these massacres.
Egypt, Jordan, and Syria had no choice but to act.
They do not like Palestinians, but they could not let the slaughter of civilian Arabs go unchallenged.
But it is the slaughter of these unarmed Arab villages that make Israel entirely and completely illegal.
Israel should not be allowed to ever exist because of these horrific crimes.
And we all know about them.
Albert Einstein happened to be there in Jerusalem where some Arabs were paraded through and then shot, and he wrote about it to the NYTimes.
Even Albert Einstein would no longer have anything to do with Israel.
No decent person should.

 

[shoshi]

The Palestinians did not like the 1948 partition, because it gave 55% of the country to 30% of the population, especially since the 30% were mostly illegal immigrants.
But they WERE willing to accept it.

The war did NOT happen over the 1948 partition, at all.
The war was over Zionists massacring Arab villages, like Deir Yassin and hundreds of others.
The Zioinists had killed all the British peacekeeper by blowing up the King David Hotel, and shot down the UN Moderator, Folke Bernadotte, so there was no one to prevent these massacres.
Egypt, Jordan, and Syria had no choice but to act.
They do not like Palestinians, but they could not let the slaughter of civilian Arabs go unchallenged.
But it is the slaughter of these unarmed Arab villages that make Israel entirely and completely illegal.
Israel should not be allowed to ever exist because of these horrific crimes.
And we all know about them.
Albert Einstein happened to be there in Jerusalem where some Arabs were paraded through and then shot, and he wrote about it to the NYTimes.
Even Albert Einstein would no longer have anything to do with Israel.
No decent person should.

Wrong. The Partition plan would have given the Arabs all of the Negev from Beersheva to Eilat. The majority of the country. Palestinians rejected it because they were encouraged to by the Arab governments. Palis themselves will tell you how it was a mistake. The plan called for Jerusalem to be international city under UN control. Read it sometime. jews accepted it even though they did not like it.

The war had been going for a while before Deir Yassin happened. It was atrocious which is why the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Palestine Isaac Herzog excommunicated all members of the Irgun and the Irgun was disbanded by force.

 

[shoshi]

Jews were willing to accept partition even though it gave us no land in the Negev and would place Jerusalem under UN control. Had the Arabs accepted it there would have been no war.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong. The Partition plan would have given the Arabs all of the Negev from Beersheva to Eilat. The majority of the country. Palestinians rejected it because they were encouraged to by the Arab governments. Palis themselves will tell you how it was a mistake. The plan called for Jerusalem to be international city under UN control. Read it sometime. jews accepted it even though they did not like it.

The war had been going for a while before Deir Yassin happened. It was atrocious which is why the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Palestine Isaac Herzog excommunicated all members of the Irgun and the Irgun was disbanded by force.

That is just a lie.
First of all, the Negev is useless and no one wants it.
Second is that the Palestinians had been totally disarmed by the British, while the US was secretly arming the Zionists, so it is a lie to claim there was a "war" going on.
The reality is there was just one massacre of unarmed Arab villages after another.
And the truth is totally counter to your claim these massacres were not common, continuing, and accepted Zionist policy.
The leader of Irgun was Menachem Begin, who not only planted the bombs in the King David Hotel, but personally gunned down Folke Bernadotte.
And he was still elected Prime Minister, even with his horrific record of the worst war crimes in history.
What you claim is just totally and completely the opposite of the truth.
The truth is that Israel always intended and planned mass genocide of all the Arab from the very beginning.
And any compromise they may have agreed to was just a lie, delaying their real intentions.
Israel could have had peace at any time.
But they keep deliberately committing atrocities in order to justify their next land grab.
Like the 1967 war, where they did a Pearl Harbor like attack on the Egyptian air force, when they were totally unprepared.
That was not at all "defensive", but the excuse for invading Jerusalem.

 

[shoshi]

That is just a lie.
First of all, the Negev is useless and no one wants it.
Second is that the Palestinians had been totally disarmed by the British, while the US was secretly arming the Zionists, so it is a lie to claim there was a "war" going on.
The reality is there was just one massacre of unarmed Arab villages after another.
And the truth is totally counter to your claim these massacres were not common, continuing, and accepted Zionist policy.
The leader of Irgun was Menachem Begin, who not only planted the bombs in the King David Hotel, but personally gunned down Folke Bernadotte.
And he was still elected Prime Minister, even with his horrific record of the worst war crimes in history.
What you claim is just totally and completely the opposite of the truth.
The truth is that Israel always intended and planned mass genocide of all the Arab from the very beginning.
And any compromise they may have agreed to was just a lie, delaying their real intentions.
Israel could have had peace at any time.
But they keep deliberately committing atrocities in order to justify their next land grab.
Like the 1967 war, where they did a Pearl Harbor like attack on the Egyptian air force, when they were totally unprepared.
That was not at all "defensive", but the excuse for invading Jerusalem.

Wrong. You never learned to read. Are you familiar with the Hadassah convoy massacre? The Arabs did that out of revenge for Deir Yassin. Ben Gurion condemned the massacre at Deir Yassin and ordered the Irgun disbanded which it was by force. All members were excommunicated by the chief Rabbi.

And by the way i lived in the Negev. i was born there. It is flourishing and is important part of Israel.

 

[Rigby5]

Jews were willing to accept partition even though it gave us no land in the Negev and would place Jerusalem under UN control. Had the Arabs accepted it there would have been no war.

Wrong.
The Zionists started with nothing, so just were more willing to bide their time.
They never intended to ever allow any native Palestinians to survive, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan Rv.
But they only pretended.
Just like in 1920 they pretended they wanted no role in government at all, so they could get immigration quotas established, that they never intended to keep.
Everything the Zionist say is a lie.
Like pretending the artillery barrage on the children at the beach was an accident, that the white phosphorous bomb exploded over Gaza was to produce smoke to hide troops from attack, like the murder of 32 on the USS Liberty was mistaken identity and they only wanted to kill horses instead, etc.
Never has the Zionists stopped from committing war crimes, like building the wall in the West Bank on private Arab property, preventing access to farms.

If there was even a remote spark of decency in Israel, then Menachem Begin, the murderer of the King David Hotel, would never have been elected.
When you exalt war criminals, it is clear how immoral you are.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong. You never learned to read. Are you familiar with the Hadassah convoy massacre? The Arabs did that out of revenge for Deir Yassin. Ben Gurion condemned the massacre at Deir Yassin and ordered the Irgun disbanded which it was by force. All members were excommunicated by the chief Rabbi.

And by the way i lived in the Negev. i was born there. It is flourishing and is important part of Israel.

Of course I read of the Hadassah convoy, and it was an illegal attempt to move weapons to Jerusalem, and deserved to be destroyed.
There was no legal purpose to that convoy.
It was against international law.
Jerusalem did not need a medical convoy, as it was under Jordanian control and had all the medical access it required.

If you are going to claim the convoy was not allowed to surrender, you would be lying.
Not only was it encouraged to surrender and they refused, but the whole attempt to capture Jerusalem failed, and about 30,000 Zionists were captured and freed after the war was over.
If Arabs were monsters like the Zionists were, then all 30,000 of these Zionist prisoners would have been executed.

David ben Gurion did not condemn the massacre of any of the hundreds of others, and Irgun, Stern, and Lehi were NOT at all disbanded, but absorbed into the IDF. Menachem Begin should have been imprisoned, not elected Prime Minister.

The Negev is useless.
The only thing of value is the port at Eilat.
Israelis can live there only because of the massive free money from the US, that allows for expensive desalinization plants.
And it is not legally part of Israel at all.

 

[shoshi]

Of course I read of the Hadassah convoy, and it was an illegal attempt to move weapons to Jerusalem, and deserved to be destroyed.
There was no legal purpose to that convoy.
It was against international law.
Jerusalem did not need a medical convoy, as it was under Jordanian control and had all the medical access it required.

If you are going to claim the convoy was not allowed to surrender, you would be lying.
Not only was it encouraged to surrender and they refused, but the whole attempt to capture Jerusalem failed, and about 30,000 Zionists were captured and freed after the war was over.
If Arabs were monsters like the Zionists were, then all 30,000 of these Zionist prisoners would have been executed.

David ben Gurion did not condemn the massacre of any of the hundreds of others, and Irgun, Stern, and Lehi were NOT at all disbanded, but absorbed into the IDF. Menachem Begin should have been imprisoned, not elected Prime Minister.

The Negev is useless.
The only thing of value is the port at Eilat.
Israelis can live there only because of the massive free money from the US, that allows for expensive desalinization plants.
And it is not legally part of Israel at all.

The victims of the Hadassah convoy massacre were doctors nurses and medics. Not soldiers. They were unarmed. if you condone that then you know nothing of law or morality. And yes the Irgun was disbanded by force by the Haganah. After that they were absorbed into the Haganah.

After years of work the Negev is flourishing. Areas are being cultivated which was once considered impossible. if you have ever been there you know that.

 

[Rigby5]

The victims of the Hadassah convoy massacre were doctors nurses and medics. Not soldiers. They were unarmed. if you condone that then you know nothing of law or morality. And yes the Irgun was disbanded by force by the Haganah. After that they were absorbed into the Haganah.

After years of work the Negev is flourishing. Areas are being cultivated which was once considered impossible. if you have ever been there you know that.

That is just a lie.
All the doctors, nurses, medics, were soldiers, and so were all the rest of the convoy.
It was NOT a medical convoy at all, and only have a scant medical staff, that was all fully armed and shooting.
No IDF has ever been unarmed.
Tell me ONE possible legal reason for any convoy to try to illegally breach the perimeter between Israel and the Palestinian division?
The claim they were unarmed is absurd since they were the ones who started the shooting, in order to illegally cross the barricaded border.
It is not like they got lost and took a wrong turn.
They murdered the border guards and blew up the barricades.

The Haganah was no better than Irgun, Lehi, or Stern.
They were all criminal gangs, just like the IDF is now.
And Menachem Begin was not removed from command.
He was elected Prime Minister instead.
Why else would they have massacred refugee camps in Lebanon, murdered surrendering Egyptians in the Sinai, tried to sink the USS Liberty, etc.?
The claim over the USS Liberty was the IDF thought it was the Egyptian horse tended, the Al Quizier.
Well it is equally a war crime to fire at a non-combatant ship like a horse tender.
Do you think it is legal to shoot at horses?

 

[shoshi]

That is just a lie.
All the doctors, nurses, medics, were soldiers, and so were all the rest of the convoy.
It was NOT a medical convoy at all, and only have a scant medical staff, that was all fully armed and shooting.
No IDF has ever been unarmed.
Tell me ONE possible legal reason for any convoy to try to illegally breach the perimeter between Israel and the Palestinian division?
The claim they were unarmed is absurd since they were the ones who started the shooting, in order to illegally cross the barricaded border.
It is not like they got lost and took a wrong turn.
They murdered the border guards and blew up the barricades.

They were not IDF you fool. They were Hadassah medical staff. On their way to the hospital. If you do not even know that you are too stupid. I don't want to talk to you since you defend shooting unarmed civilains.

 

[Rigby5]

After years of work the Negev is flourishing. Areas are being cultivated which was once considered impossible. if you have ever been there you know that.

With enough money, it is not hard to grow plants in space if you want.
But it is still Palestinian territory, and it is still a war crime to deliberately interfere with Palestinian commerce so they are too poor to survive.
That is still a deliberate war crime.

 

[shoshi]

With enough money, it is not hard to grow plants in space if you want.
But it is still Palestinian territory, and it is still a war crime to deliberately interfere with Palestinian commerce so they are too poor to survive.
That is still a deliberate war crime.

It would be Palestinian territory today had they accepted Partition. They rejected it. So its not their territory.

 

[Rigby5]

They were not IDF you fool. They were Hadassah medical staff. On their way to the hospital. If you do not even know that you are too stupid. I don't want to talk to you since you defend shooting unarmed civilains.

That is a lie. Almost all Israelis are IDF. It is required by law, even more so back then.
And it is an obvious lie to claim they were a medical convoy.
There was no need for a medical convoy to go into Palestine, where there was no fighting, since it was under Jordanian supervision.
All the fighting, injuries, deaths, etc., were near the border, not in Jerusalem.
The fighting in Jerusalem had long been over.
Why would anyone send a heavily armed medical convoy into what was essentially enemy territory?
If you really wanted to just achieve medical purposes, you would have been unarmed and ask permission.
You would not murder the border guards and blow up the barricades, like they did.
All the convoy vehicles were armored and heavily armed.

Look at the pictures.

There are no red cross or any medical symbols.
These were all armored and heavily armed weapons of war, attempting to attack Jerusalem.
A medical convoy could have been given permission and escorted.
But this was an attempt at a covert attack.
Nor was any medical assistance needed in Jerusalem.
It was not a combat zone and had all the medical facilities of the British and Jordanians.

 

[shoshi]

That is a lie. Almost all Israelis are IDF. It is required by law, even more so back then.
And it is an obvious lie to claim they were a medical convoy.
There was no need for a medical convoy to go into Palestine, where there was no fighting, since it was under Jordanian supervision.
All the fighting, injuries, deaths, etc., were near the border, not in Jerusalem.
The fighting in Jerusalem had long been over.
Why would anyone send a heavily armed medical convoy into what was essentially enemy territory?
If you really wanted to just achieve medical purposes, you would have been unarmed and ask permission.
You would not murder the border guards and blow up the barricades, like they did.
All the convoy vehicles were armored and heavily armed.

Look at the pictures.

There are no red cross or any medical symbols.
These were all armored and heavily armed weapons of war, attempting to attack Jerusalem.
A medical convoy could have been given permission and escorted.
But this was an attempt at a covert attack.
Nor was any medical assistance needed in Jerusalem.
It was not a combat zone and had all the medical facilities of the British and Jordanians.

They were Hadassah staff you idiot. Not soldiers. And I have no doubt you defend the Ben Yehuda bombing which killed 52 Jews and injured many more. And the Palestine Post bombing as well.